I have a kn5000. Even in 2011, that keyboard does things that the competitors are just starting to do!! that keyboard was so far ahead of its time it is sad that panasonic isn't making keyboard lines any longer (can you imagine what a kn10k would do?!

I am looking into getting another keyboard (and will probably keep my kn5000). Do you know if tyros 4 or audya will work as controllers of that keyboard?
I have never worked with midi so I would be totally new to this (I am not a professional keyboard player, just do it for fun)

Hi Philip

Here is an article that will teach you the basics of Midi, Basic Midi this will allow you to understand the Midi implementation chart for the keyboards you mention, (Usually at the back of the manual) to see if they can do what you want. (Remember arrangers were not really designed to be Midi controllers so there will be limitations)

To see what you can do with an understanding of basic Midi, you may be interested in this article here, which while not directly relating to the keyboards you mention, should give you an idea of what can be achieved with minimal work.

Hope this helps

Bill

Hi Phil - you don't say why you want to midi another keyboard across to your KN5000?

Phil,
If you go midi to any depth there will be a bit of a learning curve. Years ago I had a controller keyboard with 2 sound modules and a rhythm machine; my opinion – It was not worth the effort for what I was getting. I was no longer playing my keyboard as much.

Again opinion; Stay with Yamaha there’s lots of help and an ocean of styles. This equals fun and enjoyment. There will also be a learning curve but you can build on that.
Once more, opinion; After playing your new Tyros 4 you will lose the desire to play your Kn5000. I own a Kn7000 and a Kn5000 and I was I was able to compare them side to side to a Tyros3 which I owned for a year. I decided to sell my Kn 5000 as good as it is the Tyros 3 was much better. I still have my Kn7000. (Sweet)

How I rate a keyboard;

1-The overall sound.
2-How easy it is to operate.
3-The options it offers.
4-The support that is offered. --- There are many many tutorials on “how to” and the available styles are almost endless.

With all of this I am betting you will not want to invest time learning midi.

Hope this helps, John C,

the reason I would like to keep my kn5000 is I don't want to lose the music and styles that I made.
(is there a way to convert them to a yamaha format?)

with regards to midi, if there is another way to allow the yamaha (or other keyboard) to pass through my kn5000 so that I can play both that would be my ideal situation.
(and then I can record my sounds and styles directly into yamaha?)
I will check out the links about midi...
If anyone knows the best way to link a kn5000 to something else, that is what I am after

I want to be able to link 2 keyboards....if not midi then another connection (easier? would be fine too.
I know the kn5000 has limited ways (compared to boards now) of interfacing with other boards (it has a floppy drive for heaven's sake!!)....I know it has speaker in/out and midi ports.

I also am looking to freshen up the sounds (maybe all I need are some new accompanyment patterns

I would also like to be able to back up my files to a usb stick instead of a floppy

very detailed first site....I will need to study that a bit more....but it certainly gives some basics!
thanks

So you don't want to lose the music and styles that you have already made.
You would like some new sounds and styles that can be readily used.
You would like to be able to back up your material to something bigger and faster than floppy disk - a memory card/stick of some sort.
Finally you would like to be able to use style files from other manufacturers keyboards e.g. Yamaha.

The answer is simple - go out and buy yourself a used Technics KN7000 which will meet and exceed all the above requirements.

Phil,
Many have wanted to hold on to the sounds, styles songs created on our older keyboards but there is a price to pay.

Songs-Midi Files; There are two ways of saving a midi file that you have created. 1- Saving with the sounds of the Kn5000. The other is saving the Midi file with General Midi sounds. Most like to save their work with the Kn5000 sounds they are better than the General midi sounds. However if you are trying to bring your song to another make keyboard you can only do that to midi file that has been saved with General midi sounds.

Since the message that is given to another keyboard from your Kn5000 is not a word but computer data the second keyboard will have no way of selecting a Kn5000 sound to match.

Simplified;
1-Kn5000 has a number 1 which selects a trumpet. (I am using number 1 only as a example) the second keyboard may be using number 1 for a Grand Piano. So the part that the trumpet was playing is now being played by a Grand Piano when you load it to another keyboard. In short, you must have the knowledge and patients to change the instruments that are not correct. There have been many times when the drum part was being played by a Piano. (ouch)

2-Note; If the midi file was created using the styles in the Kn5000, (and I call that a technics file) the file must be resaved as a midi file.

3-Having said all of that; I have tried editing Yamaha files and styles so they could play on my Kn7000. At a later time I tried editing Kn7000 songs and styles to use with my Tyros3. After a bit of work I got fair to acceptable results. Styles created for Technics were created for a Technics keyboard having a different overall sound than a Yamaha and it the same every time you take data/song/style from one keyboard to another. Some of our gifted forum members have made have edited other make styles with much effort.

Phil, there is more – I am suggesting that you walk slowly into the midi file area and invest your time learning options in the Tyros4 – if that’s your choice. Doing just that is a handful. Then re-record the songs you love n your new keyboard – they will sound much better.

I’m scrambling to help but I feel knowing more about you and your knowledge of keyboards is a must if we are going to go further.

Take good care, John C.

Hi philip2000

If you want to convert styles, the best software is EMC Styleworks however you will still need to do some work on the styles to make them sound OK on a new keyboard.

Hope this helps

Bill

background information
I have been playing piano since 1.5 years old (I play mostly by ear). I guess you would say the "talent curve" has flattened off since then (in otherwords, I am nothing special for my age now
I played trumpet in school bands (about 8 years).
I have been out of school a LONG time
I have had the kn5000 for ~17 years now and haven't really been able to get inspired (all the styles and instruments are kind of "worn out ")---it only took me about 17 years to get to this point.
I play for fun and enjoy making my own compositions up (can't write music and reading music is weak---I can read right hand and guitar chords)
technics made an amazing keyboard for its day, but they are no longer in business (therefore, no support, warranty, parts, etc). If they were still in business, I would be getting their flagship. that is why I am reluctant to get a kn7000--no further support (and the kn6000 had some features that were removed from the 7000---so I might have considered that)
In fact, one of the places I have been trying the tyros 4
*does* have a used kn6000 (slightly beat up)
the yamaha feels like it is built better---and after exploring more of the sounds, it does sound pretty good.
Perhaps I could sample the backgrounds that I like into the tyros and loop them?
There was some mention of a program that converts files---I will certainly look into that.
ok...so that gives you some (boring) information on me

ok....looks like emc styleworks should work wonders.
how much does it cost(didn't see any pricing on that website) and how well does it work?(I assume you need a computer to make that work)
now the challenging part....how to get floppy downloaded to computer (that has no floppy drive)----maybe they make usb floppies?

Hi.

You're right, KN5000 is a wonderful keyboard. Even today, and the features as i.e. composer and panelmemories and the very easy operation system, what other brand come close to that?

EMC Styleworks is pretty expensive, and you'll see the prices at EMC's website .

Styleworks is a nice tool, but it don't sound like a "wonder has happened" after a raw convert. As mentioned above, it takes a lot of work, you have to tweak and adjust a lot, swap sounds etc. to make it sound any good.
KN5000 package contains a convert disk that is a simplified version that works only stright at the KN, but Styleworks is a PC software and have much more options.

Regarding the KN diskettes, if your PC don't have a floppydrive, you can by a cheep external to plug into the PC.

Technics parts etc - http://www.wdgreenhill.com/
Technics Support - it is all here.
I have EMC Styleworks - cost nearly £300

Hello Philip,

I've just read John C's reason for changing to a Tyros 3 because a)you can use USB sticks and b) it does have a small on-board hard drive. I agree with most of what John says with the exception of No.2 - "easy to operate" ???

In my opinion, the Tyros keyboard's Operating System hasn't changed much over the years with the exception of the Tyros 4 which now offers an expensive optional extra but I think it is still unnecessarily complicated in that it uses different areas for saving i.e: Voices, Styles, Registrations etc. and almost every single move has to be saved in the correct area or you lose your set, or worse still, it cannot be called up because it has been saved in the wrong place. You have to go to the area button first before accessing the actual area. You also have to be very careful when changing parts/icon or renaming your set, as this could 'break the link' thus causing further complications.(can you believe that?) There is an awful lot of button pushing involved with this keyboard which is also very time consuming.

With Technics once you have saved your set, it can be called up by Folder, File, Numerical or Alphabetical accessed immediately via the load button. The KN7000 uses an SD Card which makes it even easier to save and call up your tunes but, you can only save 99 Folders to an SD Card (more than enough for most people). However, it doesn' have the facility to save to a USB stick BUT depending on the model you have, you can add an internal hard drive if you wish.

Summary:-

1) Yamaha Tyros 3 would be a good choice as there are numerous converted Technics styles available on the net that it will quite happily play. The USB stick is quicker than a Floppy Disk but for me, it isn't as quick to load as the SD Card.(or as reliable)


2) Technics KN7000 is also a good choice as the SD Card is quick to load and has never failed when calling up saved Folders/Files/Songs, making it definitely easier to operate.

You have to remember that while the KN7000 keyboard is still among the top keyboards, the sound system isn't as good as the modern keyboards but I play mine through an amplification system and you can barely tell the difference. However, each day it is getting older which will obviously reflect in any future part-exchange price plus of course, the ordinary SD Card is becoming harder to find in the shops. An SHDC Card will not work - these are for camera's only.

Hope this helps.

Audrey

Good post, Audrey

I had been looking at the tryos 4 and it is starting to grow on me a bit.
the kn7000 would be a familiar interface (I am very used to my kn5000).
I know the make SD card readers that can be hooked into a usb port---so xfering files wouldn't be hard to do.
I wasn't aware sd cards were getting to be rare (and sdhc are not useable in kn7000----very useful info!)
will the kn7000 read kn5000 files without any conversion process?
can kn7000 save files as non-proprietary files (mp3, wav, etc)

Hi,the KN7 has a file load/exchange to let you take previous KN model files to be loaded with 95-99% success. This was included in the internal software because Technics wanted previous customer to do just what you want in keeping their hard work. It's a lot of hard work to start allover.
As far as the Yamaha O.S. it is noway as user friendly as Technics. To be fair I have worked as a product specialist in retail for Yamaha even teaching Yamaha Music School (late 1970-1989)Then moving to become a Director of a Technics Dealership for a number of years.I can truly say both companies have produced great products.
I now have my trusted old KN7 plus many/many style files and play a Tyros 4 on odd times at my local bar for free and easy singalongs,yes it's great but I feel happy when I get home.

Reagrds John

johh, does the sounds of the kn7000 measure up to the yamaha sounds?
how about the accompanyments?

You need the SD Jukebox software and reader to store MP3 and WAV to SD. I still rank KN7000 right below the Audya in general.

Bernie

I know I have said this before but it will all depend on the type of music you play Philip. There no keyboard out there that will play big band type of music as the Kn7000. It was created for those times. And -- the Kn7000 does not sound as good as Yamaha for contemporary music. I am not talking about one instrument sound, it is the overall sound and that is what is important.

Have you listened to today’s big band play Glenn Miller, they sound great but they do not have that Glenn Miller sound. They did not live and play in those times, and their instruments are different; their feel is different. And so it is with Technics and Yamaha and Audya.

I have played the Kn7000 and Tyros 2 and the Tyros3 side-by-side through the same amplification (I owned both) and the difference is not small. One of my favorite instruments is the Trumpet; I played one years back. I found it in possible to get the same sounding trumpet on Yamaha. Yamaha had great trumpets but not like the Kn7000 -- it is Harry James sound. (The older sound)

My humble opinion, John C.

The KN7 will read all styles from the KN2000 - KN6500 and all these older styles are available for download FREE from Bill Norrie's Technics site. I think the web address is www.willumshomepage.com (but if it is wrong, I'm sure someone will post the correct address for you).

Although there are 'multi'card readers available that allow you to play some Technics SD cards direct, it does depend on previous models, how/when/by whom the original KN sets has been put together. Some will need to be converted to play on the Tyros 4 and some (particularly midi saved sets) will play on almost any keyboard. I wouldn't worry too much about losing your KN Styles because as I said above, there are numerous 'converted' Technics styles available on the net and the KN5000 is listed among them. For me, the most outstanding website that deals with these kind of keyboard issues is:-

www.psrtutorial.com

If you visit this site, you will get some answers to your questions which will undoubtedly help you to make your decision.

Also, I should point out that along with many other people, I bought a 'new release' Tyros 4 last year which quickly revealed a 'glitch' and Yamaha put out an update that dealt with most of the problems, so if you definitely intend to buy a T4, make sure it has been updated.

Good luck!

Audrey

this is what this fellow can do with audya.
please carlify about the trumpet sound onthe kn7000 vs yamaha tyros 4? (wasn't sure I read your post correctly---you said it was or wasn't possible to get the sound you were after on tyros 4?)It's funny....one of the benchmarks for me is how good the brass(trumpet in particular) sound...I used to play trumpet and like a certain sound quality.

as far as type of music I play---I like to play a wide range of music(as long as it has some sort of melody line!)

unfortunately, that link isn't valid

Thanks for the 'Plug' Audrey

Here is the address for my website : www.willumspages.co.uk

Cheers

Bill

Hello Bill,

Thankyou for your quick response. I knew something was not quite right about it, but couldn't remember why? I've noted it in my telephone contacts now. (Senior moment again...)

By the way, I've been playing my KN7000 all afternoon. Just loaded my SD Cards and played to my hearts content - what a joy!

By comparison, I've had the Tyros 4 since last Christmas and am only half-way through loading and saving my Medleys Bk.No.5 - still got 22 to go to catch up with the KN7 sets. If it wasn't for the members on the Yamaha forum who so generously convert and allow others to use their 'tweaked' styles, (the KN series are excellent), I would have got rid of it a long time ago - it's entails far too many button pushes which is very time consuming leaving very little time for playing which I'd much rather do.

Philip - thank you also for putting this Audya demo on. Music-wise it is right up my street. I love all the Miller tunes, rock-n-roll, boogie, jazz and the like BUT NO WAY CAN I PLAY LIKE THIS CHAP. He is a pleasure to listen to. I was wondering whether he is 'left handed' seeing as he uses his left hand so much, if so, it will be very encouraging for my grand daughter who plays the piano really well despite being left handed. I have a video of a left handed pianist - it is fascinating to watch him play the piano.

Do you know whether he has made a recording of Glen Miller's 'Moonlight Serenade'? This is the tune I always use when trying out instruments as for me, Miller's use of the big band sound is still very much 'alive' compared to some of the newer keyboard big band sounds and I think this man's rendition of 'In The Mood' proves a point, as well as showing what a great instrument Audya is.

Thanks again.

Audrey

For Sale a Kn5000 in great condition.

Will accept any reasonable offer.

John C.

from what I understand (based on reading his descriptions, etc)
he either 1)made the background rhythym using audya sounds
2) it is on the insturment already?

(I think he said it was #1)

either way....I believe that is ALL audya!!
that is what blew me away
check out his other tunes!
abaco62 on youtube

audrey
how does the sounds of the kn7000 stack up against the tyros 4
(how about realistic sounding accompanyments?---does it sound "canned" or authentic?)

For me, there is no competition - give me the clarity of the sounds and rhythms on the KN7000 any time. They make you want to dance/sing as soon as you hear them.

The T4 does have a few excellent sounds and rhythms but far too many 'gimmicky' sets which I assume are aimed at the younger generation.

Let me put it this way - you often hear people complaining they cannot hear the words of the singers today, either the backing music is too loud forcing the singer to raise the voice thus causing distortion in some way, or it's a digital recording. I phoned in questions to our local radio station asking why don't we get to hear the words of a song anymore? or why do we have to keep upping/lowering the volume of a TV because the background music varies so much and why do we have to suffer so much background music anyway? The reply was that digital recordings aren't always done in a studio, but part of it can be done on location (particularly videos) thus using different types of recording gear. In this day and age of 'smart' technology I find that unbelievable!

However to get back to your question, this is how I see the difference between the KN7 and the Tyros 4. Some of the stero sounds on the T4 e.g. pianos, strings and accordions are really good, but the big bands, guitars and voices are not a patch on those on the KN7 for clarity and neither are the multipads, they do not incorporate 'phrases/fills' like the KN's do, but of course almost everything can be changed to suit your taste - but it does entail a lot of button pushing.....

If ever I was granted a wish, it would be to have a keyboard designed and set up, exactly like the KN7000 but using the Tyros 4 stereo sound system. What a combination that would be eh? Ah well! I'll dream on

Audrey

Have a look at the Korg PA3X Pro sometime Audrey - ex Technics guys now work there...

Hello Roger,

Yes, I met one or two of them at Pakefield in April. I have to say I was more than impressed with the PA3X, it not only had many of the simple functions of the KN7 on board, but in certain areas you would think they were playing it, the sounds were so much like the KNs. One of the things I really liked was being able to set up styles in advance whilst playing, in readiness for the next tune and having a choice of intros (mix & match fashion if you like. I was interested in the 76 note model but I did wonder whether it would be left 'soundless' should there be a 'glitch' with the speaker bar, but never got around to asking them. (maybe it has a battery backup on board?) It is also expensive, and although they made me a really great offer for my Tyros 4, I really want to find out more about it and spend some time playing it, before making a final decision.

Hope you and Midge are keeping well.

Audrey

I have a KN7 to which I have put an excellent KAS speaker system (up to 120w) which works really well and so what is the need for changing to any other keyboard, when imho there is nothing on them to improve on what the KN7 has? The younger players seem to want gimmicks that they can play around with but our era want good solid musical sounds which is what the KN7 gives us.

Regards
Peter B

Or to put it another way,since the music we play is far older than the KN5000, how can it be outdated ?

Peter said:
“The younger players seem to want gimmicks that they can play around with but our era want good solid musical sounds which is what the KN7 gives us.”

Playing at home and playing out for people is not the same; even if you are playing in a Nursing Homes. I find that 40% of the songs I am playing in a nursing home are not the music of my era; it is rock orientated.

I am a youngster of 80 years, thank you God, and I am in love with gimmicks. My new keyboard is a Korg Pa800, it’s fantastic. I can change almost every part of the keyboard to what I want. It is like a computer, it’s just filled with gimmicks.

Soooo, after I finished playing the Pa800; by playing I mean songs and gimmicks and gimmicks, I go to my Kn7000. Peter the songs sound different; real – clear – my era. If you were watching me when I go to my Kn7000 you would see a gentle smile,ya know like when you come home and you’re safe.

Roger, the transition from a Kn7000 to a Korg comes with a steep learning curve. You can do so much with the keyboard but you must prepare to play less; It is not for everyone. I own one because I love gimmicks but when I am done I go to my Kn7000 to play the music I love. I keep thinking that with a new keyboard I’ll be able to do much more. I have bought and sold: Psr2100, Psr3000, s900, Tyros 1, Tyros2, and a Tyros3. There are all gone. Why do I put my Kn7000 up for sale; a mood, boredom, looking for a perfect wave.

Good health to all, John C.

Eventhough I will never sell my KN7000 for some of the reasons you gave, I must admit I am always looking for the Holy Grail myself.

I have bought a Roland G70, Korg PA-800, Kurzweil K2661,Kn5000, Kn7000 and My Audya76, Muse Receptor, and vArranger. This is not counting all the Yamaha's, Casio's, and Rolands prior to the last ten years mentioned above.

My point is that each one offered something unique, and each were different, not necessarily better or worse.

I enjoy playing with my toys I couldn't afford while raising a family. I may never find the perfect keyboard, but it's been a helluva ride.

Bernie

Ray for Bernie. I love it.
John C.