Anyone have any songs that you have wanted to play on your arranger keyboard but you gave up on because of limitations of the instrument? Every once in awhile I run across a tune with specific breaks, styles, meter or tempo changes that I feel I can't pull off. In these cases I just try a completely different style from the original (make my own unique arrangement) or as a last resort use a SMF. I run into this problem mostly with Latin music (not having the correct style)

How about you?

There's a ton...

Lots of the stuff from the 80's that used a lot of "lines" instead of chords are rough for any arranger.

Many of the popular bands of the day, Kansas, ELP, Queen, Rush, etc. don't translate well...

There are no songs that you cant pull off on an arranger ! What you are saying is that you are not comfortable with programming your keyboard to achieve whatever outcome you desire. Thats a statement of your skill level and has nothing to do with the limitations of an arranger or any keyboard or instrument generally. If you can program your instrument the arranger is literally limitless.

Hi Spalding

If arrangers could do as you say them pros, studios and Film producers would use them instead of Workstations and/or computer based systems, however they don’t, because an arranger cant. (Arrangers are great as a scratchpad though)

Hardware:
Take a Korg Kronos and add a backing creator hardware box (Loop station for instance) which comes to about the same price as a T4/PA3x, and once set up (You need to put the work in) there is not a hardware arranger on the planet that can even get onto the 1st rung of the ladder in comparison.

Computer Base:
Overclocked CPU, 16 GB Ram, SSD and HDD drives (Raid) and a Top Notch sound card
Quality Midi Controller keyboard
Komplete 8 VST
Albeton Live sequencer software

The above is also about the same price as a T4/PA3x, and would (Providing you put the work in) totally blitz the T4/PA3x in every department except Easy Play.

Now as a lot of songs/productions use this type of equipment as standard, (Plus many more hardware/software combinations) you can see that an arranger has not got a cat in hells chance (No matter how much you program) of playing them.

I have been using Computer based software since the 90s, (I ditched Arrangers/organs in the very early 90s due to their inherent limitations) so I am familiar with what’s available and what it can do, I am also familiar with arrangers and what they can do, so I am talking from experience, I also don’t have any brand loyalty. (If it does what I want at the right price, then I will use it)

Remember, as I have said many times, the only reason I have the Wersi Abacus is because I can use my software on-board, and have it in the lounge without any complaints or boxes and cables all over the place. (No hardware arranger comes close)

Bill

Bill,

As much as I respect your opinions, I must disagree with you on this. If you ditched arrangers in the early 90s, you obviously, IMHO, left arrangers while they were still in their technological infancy.

If your theory is valid about this issue, how about providing us with some examples you've created using your system, and to make all things equal, create the same songs that Telmo recently created on his T4 and posted here. Then we can make an educated comparison of the end result using both systems.

I sincerely believe the only reason that film studio producers do not use them is because most are still living in the dark ages (1990s) of musical production. There have been lots of advances in technology of arranger keyboards during the past two decades, but unfortunately, only a handful of individuals have taken the time to explore those advancements and use them to their fullest potential. Keep in mind that it wasn't too many years ago when film production studios used live orchestras and 1-inch tape recorders. The transition to computers and VSTs for this industry was painfully long.

I'm looking forward to hearing your posted examples,

Gary

If I wanted to program or sequence my performances, I would've bought a different keyboard. (Probably, I'd kept my Korg Triton Prox88), but I don't.

I can't even get comfortable with MIDI files for pete's sake, let alone try to program all the parts to Karn Evil 9 or something.

Yes, I agree...you can sequence anything. But I don't do that. I like to play and perform. Its not cost effective for me to go that route.

Or put another way, programming is not one of my skills, lol...

Hey Bill
You sound like me, "can't get comfortable with a midi file" sequence although its seems increasingly thats what everyone is doing. I used to play every part on two keyboards, bas pedals and drum machine but now use an arranger, some trade off but I still feel like I'm in control.
I've spent much time customizing my styles so they don't sound so canned.
Just nice to hear there's someone who feels like I do about preforming

BTW what arranger do you use?

Bill in NJ

Well said, Spalding.

I haven't run into a tune I can't accomplish on an arranger. At one time arrangers wouldn't play On Bass (or bass inversions if you like) and multiple time signatures weren't possible.

Nowadays, with software by Michael Bedesem and Jørgen Sørensen (to name but two) and advances in arranger design, those issues are taken care of admirably.

As far as pros using them?

They are used in Nashville for songwriting; Martina McBride, Sting, David Paich(Toto), David Bryant(Bon Jovi), and several other prominent musicians use them in their studios.

Many OMB performers use arrangers, including several on this very forum.

I have done several projects with my arrangers, and these were done far quicker than with a workstation (well, the arranger is a workstation too) and the results were totally acceptable by my clients.

Arrangers have come a long way since the bingity boingity cheap sounding home organs, Casios and PSS instruments, and are only limited by a player's skill and imagination.

Ian

I use Tyros 2, with a Tyros 1 as a backup...

Hi Gary

Telmo is a good case in point, in that a lot of the sounds he uses are converted from these larger libraries, however due to the T4s limited processing power, small memory and very few hardware controls, (It doesn’t even have a touch screen) a lot of the original is lost.

That it sounds great is undeniable, and as I have mentioned in other threads he really is a top notch arranger/player, and once familiar with the way produces and systems work could easily move into a production environment.

However consider this:

Telmo makes the T4 sound great (Although remember a fair amount of the stuff he uses it is from 3rd party’s not Yamaha or on-board) however if he did the same using the full works, you would realise how limiting the T4 (And all other arrangers) are.

If you want demos, just go to any of the VST manufactures sites and listen to the demos and read (And watch) the tutorials to see what I mean.

As to early arrangers being limited, I agree, however I have tried and had demoed (By Professional sales staff and artists) all the latest arrangers, and I can assure you that they do not compare to Workstations or Computer based systems. (They were never designed for that role)

For the target market (Home Uses, OMB) an arranger is a brilliant piece of equipment which will suit a lot of people, but take it out of its intended environment and it becomes like a fish out of water.

BTW VST stands for Virtual Studio Technology and studios and production engineers have been using them since the late 90s, (The VST standard came out in the Mid 90s) along with 24 bit sound systems. (The days of CD quality 16 bit sounds have long gone, which is why you don’t hear the best sound if you listen to a normal CD)

Bill