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#334918 - 12/29/11 01:14 AM
Re: Korg Microarrangers have just landed
[Re: Fran Carango]
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Senior Member
Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 3944
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Someone has to be the "voice of reason"....it might as well be me This little guy (Micro arranger) is loaded.......loaded with all the things I disliked about the older Korg arrangers You guys are bored and ready to buy any in-expensive toys.. The old Korgs..to an extent the new ones too...are poor when it comes to the OS..and stage friendly...NOT!!.. The Micro and the standard pa50sd are 32 mbs of rom sample...the sounds are not great as in detail...it reminds me of the sound quality we get with the MS soft synth..(Roland clone)...in fact I think the MS synth is 24 mbs with only a GM map of tones.. The Micro will not please anyone that plays the keys..with the exception of some PSR players (use to poor key feel) It may be wiser to get the standard size PA50 sd..for a couple hundred more... The Micro is a neat novelty tool ( I didn't want to say toy)...and it is cool to have one...if you know it's merits and limitations...but I think folks have build an image that will not stand up.. The plus side it is a module size with keys...easily manageable to carry....will amaze folks that the sound is coming from a "toylike" musical instrument.....all many reasons to get one...just be realistic... a 32 mb sound rom and a outdated OS.. And my pet peave with Korg ..the 4 effect block system..another reason to pass over the Micro for me.... PS: I'll probally order mine next week.. Fran, IYO what does all this say about anyone who buys one .......... ??? One word will do! Don't think what's left of the Bee Gees would buy one but Korg are not that stupid to make something that won't sell. I think Korg will have come up with a better company strategy than you give them credit for. Now if Ketron had have put out such a KB I might well agree with some of what you say.
_________________________
Tyros 4/Pair SR 350/ PC with a i8 intel chip, XENYX 802, Ford Focus 2 litre/Tascam DR07/Brother printer/Designjet 500/ our Doris/5 Grandchildren/ white boxers short Kymart shipped over and Typhoo Tea Earl Grey
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#334936 - 12/29/11 11:29 AM
Re: Korg Microarrangers have just landed
[Re: DAN.2000]
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Member
Registered: 08/24/04
Posts: 666
Loc: City of Angels in the golden s...
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Yes, and I think there is no portamento... There is (as RH sound-program).Will load all triton classic and LE programs (except for COMBIs). You ‘ll have the following pros. 1.10 lbs pro arranger KB with speakers and aux input (buy your 199$ TC harmonizer and hook it up)
2. Actual midi ports and L/R out, sustain and assignable ins comparing to others - who have only USB to midi and Phone out/sustain in only) 3. Plays SMFs or Modified SMFs with internal sounds (yes modified ones, too- more than GM) directly from internal memory and from SD with no load time4. Good synth engine/sounds and tons of editing (will load Triton programs)/Actual 16 trk sequencer with true edit (realtime/step) plus song recorder (they call it Backing SEQ) (record the accomp and RH notes in one pass, write it as a SMF). 5. Can rewrite all factory styles (4 variations each more than 300) including user area (can load 48 I believe), but you have SD drive –so no major issues 6. No sticking USB drives 7. arranger module with 5 octave keys (I know the size) with 4 WAY JOY STICK,(good choice that they stick to that,more useful than 2 tiny wheels on other micro series, which is unpractical becaue of the thick hard ware borders limiting the quick travel of wheels for simutaneous use of both)( try that with PSR s 650 which has no Mod wheel) ( did I mention speakers and 10 lbs only?) meaning you can create , edit songs anywhere without a computer or space issues. Cons will be 1. 2 fills and some issues with fills (same old PA 80 BOARD) 2. Muti-pads won’t play loops (no OS update can’t do it either) 3. Styles somewhat busy and over orchestrated compared to mid Yammies ( PSR S series) 4. Small keys ( I would still take the keys than no keys at all) 5. Can't be battery powered ( well, you can have it all) The same functions /sound board as PA50SD , so you can check the manual. http://www.korgpa.com/en/support/products/arrangers/pa50sd/pa50sd-manuals.html Top http://www.synthzone.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/331202/1http://www.synthzone.com/forum/ubbthread...rang#Post331642This will be a good addition of Korg sounds on top of any Yammy S series or Tyros.
Edited by jamman (12/29/11 12:00 PM)
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#334976 - 12/30/11 08:47 PM
Re: Korg Microarrangers have just landed
[Re: frankieve]
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Senior Member
Registered: 03/21/03
Posts: 3748
Loc: Motown
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OK, my Micro arrived this afternoon, but because of company and other commitments I've only gotten a little over an hour into this thing. Let me say first that this is NO TOY in any way, shape or form. It is playable right out of the box, but if you want your special features you better know your Korg OS or start learning quickly. This is a full-blown arranger, ala PA50 SD. The keys are the main difference and will attract all the questions. I kept trying to tell myself that they would be like accordion keys, but no way. They are true mini-keys; a little stubby but fat enough to play easily. Good feel. As some early reviews from across the ocean have said, the velocity curves are tight and nuances on piano and other touch sensitive sounds are difficult.
Only being slightly familiar with the OS kept me from performing some songs as I would have liked, but the styles were great and they reminded me of my ol'iX300, only better - some were even inspiring. I'm still trying to get balances right and make voice changes within programs. I briefly tried loading and playing along with some of my SMFs, but that's where I hit a wall. Trying to figure out how to load a song was not as easy I expected and it doesn't seem like there is a dedicated channel or two for right hand sounds except CH 1 - I'll need help in this area. Also haven't even touched the two sequencer concept with its balance slider...
That's about it for my first hour. I'd say I made a good decision and will sooner or later take it out for a spin to a NH job. For $499 or less you can't go wrong unless you absolutely can't stand 1) mini keys or 2) any Korg. BTW, DNJ says he's gotten about two hours in so far and has very similar feelings. He's owned a couple Korgs so he's a little more comfortable with the OS. His quote to me was, "Cass, this thing is DEEP..." But he hasn't loaded any SMFs yet. Hopefully he and I will learn this monkey together. If you buy it as a sound module, I'll bet you start using the keyboard sooner and more often than you think. * * * *
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#334997 - 12/31/11 04:56 AM
Re: Korg Microarrangers have just landed
[Re: frankieve]
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Senior Member
Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
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Hi Everyone….. Frank at AUDIO WORKS in Milford Connecticut http://www.audioworksct.com/ really came thru again & I highly recommend dealing with him in any of your your future gear buying needs for sure!! I have the Micro Arranger here in my studio and was able to finally get a hour or so to sit down and play it…my initial thoughts were skeptical as how can a 9lb arranger KB really sound, YES I said 9lbs!.. OMG how wonderful to carry around and at $499.00?……well those thoughts were quickly squashed as to my amazement this unit is really impressive in so many ways. It comes with a Quick start manual & a CD owners manual/restore data disc also… first off don’t expect the on-board speakers to blow you away because they don’t as expected. but put on some good headphones or plug the unit into some good monitors or powered speakers etc, and you will be a believer. As for the bewilderment of the mini keys that also was answered as soon as I played the kb….yes, they are mini box keys but they are just shorter then regular keys but the width of the white /black keys is just enough to make it comfortable to play, with nice action also…after a while you get used to it and don’t even realize it which makes all the difference…somehow KORG did it right and this unit has a quality feel to it also …nice rubber buttons with great placement location for easy navigation while playing too, firm sliders, big bright display screen . Some really nice features too like a manual bass button, & bass Inversion, +/- transpose, & octave buttons on deck too…….I went thru all the styles and I’d say for my performance needs on stage there is about 70% usable factory styles right out of the box…some are hidden with different names that makes you wonder why they did that but you can always edit & change the names as with KORGS you can change almost everything on the KB…the quality of the styles & most of the sounds really impressed me ……super Organs with great Leslie EFX using the joy stick, Guitars, excellent Pianos, Elec Pianos, Saxes are very good expect the Growl Sax which I didn’t care for at all compared top my Yamaha S910, and Trumpets, Brass, Flutes,…Accordions, Harmonicas were on mark too…The styles really have a “LIVE” sound to them also with a nice progression thru the variations too..Right out of the box you can go gig with this baby no problem……… There is MUCH more to discover and I will try to express my thoughts as I go along with all of you just a bit busy gigging till NYE ….. KORG will sell a ton of these for sure. Happy New Year to All Very Happy
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#335008 - 12/31/11 09:14 AM
Re: Korg Microarrangers have just landed
[Re: frankieve]
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Senior Member
Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15576
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
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The PA50SD tips the scales at just over 24-pounds, and sells for about $150 more. So, I guess the extra inch on the keys adds a fair amount of weight, and about 30 percent to the price over the micro. Welcome back to the forum, Donny, Gary
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!
K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)
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#335010 - 12/31/11 09:41 AM
Re: Korg Microarrangers have just landed
[Re: Bill Lewis]
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Senior Member
Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
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Tiny keys are definately out for my big hands and I'm leaning towards a Casio PX3 with a Roland BK7M module so I can feel like I'm playing a solid keyboard. A question--- If this is the same as the PA50SD why not just go with that and get full keys, is it price? Having had a lot of experience with Yamaha's PSS series, which use similar small keys, it's not just the tinier size that is a problem (for me-I have large hands), but it's going back playing on a "normal" size keyboard that will be a real issue for most players. Small keys are extremely bad for your technique, but, if the Micro Arranger is the only instrument you play, it will probably be just peachy. There is also the well known issue with the shorter throw keys not being very good for velocity sensitive piano type voices. If you plan on gigging with it, you still need to take a stand, foot switches, powered speakers (unless you're playing in a very small room) and there is also "the look" you have to deal with, as most people will think it is a toy. I could be wrong, but I have a feeling that most "keyboard players" will use this product for a while, and then get back to something with normal size keys. A 24 lb PA-50SD makes a whole lot more sense to me...the weight couldn't possibly be an issue (so it's probably a money thing), and it would be far easier to play. In any case, it would be far more logical (in my opinion) to use the Micro Arranger as a module, controlled by an instrument with regular sized keys. Of course, then you will need a double tier stand, and will have to deal with longer setup/breakdown times. I certainly wish the new owners all the best of luck with their instrument...it does sound very good, indeed (like a PA-50D). Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.
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#335070 - 01/01/12 12:02 PM
Re: Korg Microarrangers have just landed
[Re: Tony Hughes]
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Senior Member
Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
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What's the pecentage of each...
Tony I managed to do my New Year's gig with 100% use of the arranger, and, I play all instrumentals, so it was a real challenge. But, that's where all the hard practice, style making/editing, and conjuring up interesting arrangements can make all the difference. I managed to keep the dance floor full throughout the evening, even with instrumentals, so there was a lot of personal satisfaction in being able to accomplish something like that, without needing to resort to keyboard karaoke-using SMF or some other way. I could have stuck a bunch of MP3's on a memory stick and had the Tyros4 play them, but there is absolutely no joy in DJ'ing for me. The fun (and the objective) has, and always will, be in the playing. Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.
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#335075 - 01/01/12 01:47 PM
Re: Korg Microarrangers have just landed
[Re: ianmcnll]
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Senior Member
Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9673
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
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What's the pecentage of each...
Tony I managed to do my New Year's gig with 100% use of the arranger, and, I play all instrumentals, so it was a real challenge. But, that's where all the hard practice, style making/editing, and conjuring up interesting arrangements can make all the difference. I managed to keep the dance floor full throughout the evening, even with instrumentals, so there was a lot of personal satisfaction in being able to accomplish something like that, without needing to resort to keyboard karaoke-using SMF or some other way. I could have stuck a bunch of MP3's on a memory stick and had the Tyros4 play them, but there is absolutely no joy in DJ'ing for me. The fun (and the objective) has, and always will, be in the playing. Ian Ian, as primarily an instrumentalist myself (most of my years I performed without my own vocals)..I understand the personal satisfaction you are talking about, although for me the satifaction comes from turning off the auto arranger (not much different from SMF play, no matter how much you argue the point ) I can only think how boring it could get (especially a NYE party) with just arranger play and NO vocals..Too much of any style without diversity could get boring or say less interesting... As for playing "karaoke keyboard"... there are many other guys and gals here that sing and sing well..singing to a SMF is an ideal way to perform for them....and if they play keys too, playing over SMF's can be just as rewarding as just playing arranger mode...in fact I would say the talent level to play over SMF's can easily exceed the level of arranger play...not always, but it surely could... Last nights gig we used a drummer (live kind), and I do like playing left hand bass with piano etc... unfotunately my band members are use to (spoiled) the "karaoke keyboard" method...Using my Roland keyboard(G70) to perform this method is enjoyable because it allows better ways to mix the play with markers, and the best on the fly edibility...stil unmatched by any other brand...showing chords , lyrics and a view of all parts quickly....MP3 play of my recorded tunes is convenient (also allowing back ground vocals)..is a bit less flexible and I find it harder to play over them, especially a request we don't usually perform... Thankfully I have the right keyboard for me....a board that allows me to change it up....and it also aids me with my limited vocal ability...using the smartest vocalizer that will follow style play, or SMF, with auto read ability...and the "vocoder" mode is tops of any other vocalizer , even the stand a lones... I think a wider view of exceptance is in order....I think most folks here would agree that a mix of the tools makes a more enjoyable gig for our customers..
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#335077 - 01/01/12 02:27 PM
Re: Korg Microarrangers have just landed
[Re: Fran Carango]
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Senior Member
Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
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I can only think how boring it could get (especially a NYE party) with just arranger play and NO vocals..Too much of any style without diversity could get boring or say less interesting... I think a wider view of exceptance is in order....I think most folks here would agree that a mix of the tools makes a more enjoyable gig for our customers.. Well, I can only go by the comments I received during and after the gig, and, if I was to take stock in them (and I do), the performance was anything but boring. Not having the luxury as you do of having a vocalist, I have to find other ways of making the playing interesting, and I do manage do be able to do quite well, at least so far...I get a lot of return requests. I don't just sit there and play one tune after the other...I use a microphone and interact with the crowd. Many years of doing Yamaha clinics have helped me tremendously with working with an audience. Fran, I do have a very wide view of "acceptance" for what other arranger players use to perform...my comments are/were restricted to my own needs, and in the case of playing, my own pleasures as well. Use what works for you...I personally would find playing over a commercial SMF very boring indeed, and as far as DJ'ing, well...it would be about as exciting as mother's day in an orphanage. DJ'ing isn't "playing"...it's "DJ'ing"...I cringe when I hear a DJ say he was "playing last night", or whatever...personally, it's no more "playing" than using a CD player at home...the only skill involved is "working" the crowd (certainly handy for anyone who performs), and a half-decent knowledge of what music will work for a certain age group, but, it most certainly is not "playing"! Again, these are my personal opinions. I play lots of times without the arranger on full...I often use LH bass (comes from many years of piano/organ playing), and fortunately, I have a really awesome sounding arranger in the Tyros4, so if it sounds bad, it is not the instrument's fault. "Karaoke" keyboarding, such as singing over a commercial SMF, is only one step away from singing over an MP3 of a tune with the vocal track removed...at that point, it is just "singing" (or "performing vocally") and certainly not "keyboard playing" in any sense of the word. I don't have a problem with how other arranger "players" perform. I do have a set of parameters that I work within, and they aren't for everybody, but, they do bring great personal satisfaction and pleasure to me. Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.
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#335094 - 01/01/12 07:49 PM
Re: Korg Microarrangers have just landed
[Re: cassp]
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Senior Member
Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
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I think that the fact we all can use our arrangers as we choose is the key element. True, Cassp...it is far wiser to identify with others, rather than compare. I admire people that can sing, like you, DonM, Donny, Scott, just to name a few...and, as it's been said many times here, it is the result that matters, not the method. However, I still prefer to work within the parameters I have set for myself; it's not that they are better (or worse) than what others use, but they are the ones that give me the most personal satisfaction. Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.
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#335159 - 01/02/12 06:26 PM
Re: Korg Microarrangers have just landed
[Re: cassp]
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Senior Member
Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 10427
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, CA, US...
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Getting back on the topic of the Micro: It's amazing what one can learn if he reads the manual. Sometimes it doesn't make immediate sense, but might kick in hours or days later all on its own. Cass, I definitely agree with you. Because the MicroArranger's gonna be my first Korg brand "arranger" ever owned (my last Korgs were Synths (707 & 01WFD), I was fortunate to receive an advance copy of the manual so have been busy as a beaver reading & working to absorb everything I can cover to cover before mine arrives. Korg's OS and way of doing things is distinctively different than on Yamaha arrangers (which I've played for over 10 years), so I initially didn't undertand Korg's naming conventions but after having to re-read a few sections of the manual, I finally figured out that a Korg 'Program' is what Yamaha refers to as a 'voice', and that a Korg "Performance' is what Yamaha refers to as an individual "Registration". There are a number of other OS & operational differences as well, but once I was able to keep an open mind to Korg's conventions and methods, it finally makes sense, and I now appreciate the advantages of both Yamaha & Korg's different approaches and ways of doing things. I'm already discovering some Korg features missing on the Tyros 4 I know I'm going to appreciate on the MicroArranger, like the ability to assign chord recognition to 'either' the left or the upper section of the keyboard, allowing one to play LH manual bass lines while in auto accomp mode. Yamaha doesn't support that. The other cool feature missing on Yamaha arrangers is Korg's dual sequencer. Listening to the MicroArranger demos, I think I'm also going to appreciate "BOTH" Korg's smooth jazz(?) type sounds/styles as a nice option/compliment to my Yam T4's more traditional polished sound. It's going to be nice to have 'both' worlds of sounds to choose from. That said, I'm going to reserve my opinion about the MicroArranger until I've actually had a chance to play it a bit. Ok, time to get back to that MicroArranger manual again. I hope to have it read cover to cover by the time the little MicroArranger arrives. How much I actually absorb by then though will be anybody's guess. Scott
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