I'm thinking of adding a TC Helicon "VoiceLive Touch" unit to my vocal-arranger keyboard setup. Though I enjoy the covenience of the Tyros 4 built in vocal harmonizer and feel it sounds pretty decent for most situations, I also appreciate the significant improvement my older TC Helican Voiceworks rack unit delivers. In the meantime, TC Helicon now offers the VoiceLive Touch which looks really appealing with its smallbform factor and quick and ingenious mic stand mounting design and impressive voice loop (vLoop) feature. As both a singer and kb player , having the VH unit accessible near keyboard height and eye level makes much better sense than on the floor where VoiceLive was intended to be set. Additionally,the VoiceLive Touch supports adding a remote floor pedal if desired.

Does anyone here own, or recommend moving up to a TC Helicon VoiceTouch vs the VoiceLive 2 or a Harmony M. ?

Thanks in advance for all input, experience, and advice, and best place to purchase a Voicelive Touch at a good price.

Scott

Hi Scott
I have one I bought 6 mos ago but haven't gotten around to using it much as I have VH on Audya. I must say that the external unit is much superior, however.

Email or Skype me if you are interested in buying it.

Bernie

I have VL2 and let me tell you,T4 vocal processor is a toy comparing to VL2.The VL touch is almost the same,but has got less parameters to play with.You will love the effects and harmonies.Best there is.

Scott, this would also be great for use with your new toy, the Korg microArranger, as it doesn't have a vocal harmonizer (or a mic input).

Ian

Scott,

I've been using the Harmony-M since it first came on the market, and while it really does a fantastic job, I, for one, don't believe the audiences even notice that you are singing in harmony. I get lot of comments about my vocals, but NO ONE has ever said "Wow--that harmony really sounded great." It just doesn't happen. In many instances I've pointed out to the audience that the harmony is actually me singing and it's live. I've even done songs accapella using the harmony-M, and while the audiences loved it, overall, it really doesn't seem to have much of an impact on the overall performance. I sang Have You Heard by the Duprees on NYE, most folks loved the song, but no comments about the harmoney, which I thought sounded terrific.

Good luck on whatever you decide upon,

Gary

Scott, I just got a Voice Live 2 and I also have a Hamony M. The VL2 is definitely in another category. Would the audience notice? Probably not… The VL2 is very bulky and overkill for my needs. It looks like the Voice Touch live would be very nice compromise and would go great with your new Micro Arranger.

Scott: I've got the Voice Touch unit that I use with guitar, not keyboard. It's nice, but I rarely use it now that the Voice Tone series of pedals is out. The new H1 pedal is great for hands-free operation. And, like Gary said, my audiences never mention the harmony aspect, but do comment on the overall vocals. Maybe they realize something is different, but just can't express what they're hearing.
Larry

Toys on Toys, what next!!! Jezzz not enough time in the day to play with them.

You can tell the age of the boys by the price of their toys!

Ian

Scott,

I have got to have one, if I don't get one I will scream and scream, will it make me scream better!!
Daddy Christmas has gone, how much are they Scott?


Tony

Gary ... you are right in that most people will not comment on 'the harmony' during your performance, but, as you know, it is the overall performance - the sounds/styles/playing of the kb, the quality of the vocals, the choice of songs, etc. that people get impressed with ... just as I have often said, I doubt that many - if ANY - actually recognize when a performer changes a kb, and I don't think many are going to comment on the harmony - UNLESS of course, it is really BAD ... ...

Scott,

£400.00 in the UK, are they made in the USA.


Tony

Scott, will you need a mixer/amp/powered speaker to use the harmonizer with the microArranger, or does the latter have a mic/line in?

Ian

Hi Ian.
Both the Korg MicroArranger and Tyros 4 include line level input, so the vocal mic simply plugs into the VoiceLive Touch unit, of which incidently has 'phantom' power, which I need when using my AKG C3000 condenser mic. The vocal signal + efx processing + harmonies (generatied from the chords played on the kb sent to the VoiceLive via midi from the KB) are in turn sent out the VoiceLive's line-level output and enter the Yamaha T4 or Korg MicroArranger thru their respective 1/4" line level input jacks, with the final keyboard/vocal mix sent out the the respective keyboard's stereo output to the PA. - Scott

Thanks Scott...that should make it handy for very small intimate gigs, where you won't need to bring an amp, but use the instrument's on-board speakers.

It's good to see the microArranger including line in jack...I'm guessing the PA-50 also had a line in jack, since the former is based on it.

So far so good...any more news on your Korg's arrival, or is it still expected this Thursday?

Ian

Why would you plug into Tyros or Micro arranger.There is no reason for that.Just go directly into the mixer.

So one wouldn't need a mixer at all...just plug the mic into the Voice Live Touch and then the latter into the line in on the keyboard (Tyros4 or microArranger). In the case of the microArranger, the on-board speakers could/would be used (at smaller more intimate gig settings, of course).

Ian

Ian,

I haven't used a mixer in more than 10 years. Every external vocal processor I've owned has phantom power, therefore you can merely plug the output into the keyboard's Line-In and you're ready to go. Additionally, you can still utilize some of the great vocal effects in the keyboard, reverb, delay, etc..., all in conjunction with the outboard vocal harmonizer.

As for using the onboard speakers, I wouldn't recommend it. Too many problems with feedback and looping because of the close proximity to the mic. Dead-plug the speakers and use a good PA system and those problems are non-existent.

Cheers,

Gary

No Mixer in 10 years Gary? Well, that's because your Kickapoo Joy Juice is active enough to mix itself...been known to dissolve plastic, I hear.

I've used the arranger's on-board speakers with a mic for many, many demos (and gigs), without a hint of feedback.

I can't see how it would be different with Scott's Korg (which is the main unit under consideration here), unless he's using an omni-directional mic....they don't work well for that application.

I do know Yamaha recommends a uni-directional mic for optimum results.

From what Scott has told me on Skype, his original intent was to eliminate an external mixer/amp entirely and use the Korg's on-board speakers, or headphones.

Ian

Ian,

Onboard speakers usually have a detrimental effect when you are using vocal harmonizers--even with a quality, unidirectional mic. A good example of this was clearly demonstrated on the PSR-Tutorial site. Of course, if you don't sing, especially in harmony, then it's not a problem.

Cheers,

Gary

Gary, I do sing on my clinics/demos...and, I use the harmonizer...I use a vintage Electrovoice RE-15 on the Tyros4, and on the PSR-S910 (and previously on S900/3000/2000/9000/8000) a very cheap Yamaha mic that came with a vocal pack that was available back when the PSR-8000 was introduced.

I have had no issues with either mic...no feedback, or warbling sounds etc...just good clean vocal sound with and without harmony.

Of course, having the right settings is very important.

Ian

Glad to hear you're not having any problems with the rig, Ian.

Cheers,

Gary

Gary, I'm sure that not everyone has had great luck with the harmonizer/microphone system in the Yamaha arrangers, but Dan Rymut has a super tutorial on PSR Tutorial that really clears up a lot of the common problems that were experienced by users.

Ian

Gar, I'm afraid you'll need to bring out the mixer, not the Kickapoo Joy Mix
if you want to both sing & play on a Korg PA50SD/MicroArranger.
I'm just discovering, after reading the Korg MicroArranger (and PA50SD) manuals
more closely, that the signal entering the PA50SD/MicroArranger's 'line input' jack merely routes
the Line in signal directly to the keyboard's built in speakers as well as to the keyboard's L/R outputs.
The line-in signal's volume can't be altered in the Pa50SD/MicrArranger, nor any effects be added to it.
Considering this, here's a workaround solution (without having to add a dedicated mixer) suggested to me by Frankieve
which should theoretically work (though not actually tried),
if one utilizes a TC Helicon VoiceLive Touch with the MicroArranger:

Instead of bringing the mic signal into the MicroArranger,
send the MicroArranger's outputs to the AuX-In input of the VoiceLive Touch instead;
and then send the final mix (MicroArranger + Mic with TC Helicon efx) out to a PA or to headhpones via the VoiceLive Touch unit's outputs.
The limitation to this method though is that, though the keyboard's output volume can be easily adjusted from the MicroArranger,
the mic volume would pretty much have to remain fixed.

That said, the simplest approach I can see to add a mic + effects with the Pa50SD/MicroArranger is the way Mirza suggested ,
simply using an external mixer. Can anyone here recommend a compact small footprint 4 channel mixer of which includes: effects, and perhaps, phantom power too?

Scott

Hi Ian, after more thought, I agree that bringing in the mic signal (post Voice Live Touch) into the keyboard via the MicroArranger's line-in jack should probably work, including the ability to adjust the mic volume, not from the MicroArranger, but on the VLTouch, but only by going out of the VLTouch via it's 1/8" stereo headphone output jack & using its accompanying output vol control knob, because the VLTouch's XLR & TRS outputs don't include output vol signal control. The MicroArranger's input jack is merely MONO, so I assume that a 1/8" stereo to 1/4" mono converter cable will be required as well for this setup. The only 'very minor' drawback to this method is that any 'stereo' vocal effects applied by the VLTouch will be heard mono thru the MicroArranger's built in Speakers and the keyboard's output - Scott

You'll know more once you get the microArranger Scott...you could also try the rack mount VH you have already, and get a good idea what will work best.

Ian

Not sure about the Micro, but on the PA3X there are separate e.q. settings available for the headphone output and the main outs.
I couldn't figure out why my recordings (via headphone out) didn't sound like my live sound until I found that.
DonM

Scott,

Why don't you just order a rack mounted Groove XR and go the whole hog! eeeeeeeeh, sod messing with the toys, blow your mind, not certain where you will get it from just yet. Plug it straight into the T4. BOOM! ZAP! BIFF! ZONK! beat that JR!

Mans stuff Scott.

Regards

Tony

Voice Live Touch Demo

Cool demo.

How much money do you want to spend on mixer.I would always go to mixer first,everything separately.Keyboards stereo,even voicelive2 ..That way you can pan harmony voices inside the unit left and right the way you want to.
If you want small mixer with really good preamps and I really recommend this one,try Soundcraft - Notepad 124.

There is one with effects and one without.If you gonna sing by yourself only than you don't need efx..Voicelive2 or Touch has really good ones.

Scott,

I'm looking forward to reading your report about the Voicelive and Micro combination, and also hearing what it can, and cannot do in a live performance situation.

Keep us posted,

Gary

Gary, I actually haven't decided yet whether to take the Voice Live Touch plunge or not, esp because I already got the TC Helicon VoiceWorks Rack.

Because the Korg MicroArranger does't have a dedicated "mic in" jack like the Yam Psr's have, or allow you to add keyboard effects to the "line in" signal,, or even adjust the volume level of that signal, I'm looking for a small compact as possible mic amp (?) which will let me raise/adjust the mic volume output level, and in turn plug this into the Korg microArranger's line in. Any ideas? Not looking to break the bank, as its mainly for casual music entertaiment among friends and family. - Scott

Scott here's your answer...... Roland BA330

Roland BA-330?

http://www.synthzone.com/forum/ubbthread..._BA3#Post333821

Sorry Donny, but another Pa's not what I had in mind as I already got a small stereo Pa Speaker. I simply need a mic preamp + effects unit like the TC Helicon Voicetone Createe XT, but which also includes an ouput "volume gain" knob to enable easily raising or lowering the mic signal (aka volume level) entering the MicroArranger's line input, because the MicroArranger won't do that. Anybody else got a small single mic pre-amp + efx unit suggestion/recomendation? - Scott

Sorry Scott I misunderstood your request.....please forgive my ignorance.

Donny,

Is this how we want to sound to our audiences, at 60 yrs +, I think not, just use what we have built in our Kb with loads of reveb. It's a lot of money for something you won’t use, and who wants to sound like they are demented...... Maybe Scotteeee Hip Hopping, he's young enough! It's all getting to to to tec tec tec nic al
for me me me me meeeeeeeeeeeee!

Tony

I use the mackie Pro fx8 great mixer and small footprint phantom power 1 monitor out put and sep channels to control monitor main and fx perfect fotr the one man band type of guy.

Update: I've just discovered the Roland VP-7 Voice Processor and that it includes a headset microphone (the Roland DR-HS5) too.
Does anyone own or have any experience with either the VP-7 or DR-HS5?

I'm particularly attracted to the Roland VP-7 because it's so compact & simple to operate.
It doesn't include the bells and whistles of the TC Helicon VoiceLive processors like 'audio looping' + other perks,
but I simply need nice sounding vocal reverb and basic yet realisitic sounding duo/trio vocal backup harmony voices.
The VP-7 looks most compact & lightweight, and while the TC Helicon VoiceLive Touch can be positioned at eye level too, it's quite a bit larger & heavier. The TC Helicon 'Harmony M' appears best suited for being set on the floor. Is this true, or can it be positioned similar as the below pic of the Roland VP-7 with the microARRANGER (see below). It would be interested to hear an A/B comparison between the Harmony M & VP-7.

I'm really interested in finding out how the VP-7's 'vocal harmony sound quality' compares with the TC Helicon, esp the VoiceLive Touch.
Does anyone here own, or have auditioned, or better yet, compared the sound of these two units?

I'm anxious to learn if either Roland or TC Helicon will be announcing new model followups to the VP-7 or VoiceLive Touch respectively.
In the meantime, any and all feedback from others here is much appreciated.

Scott

here's a pic I found on the internet of the Roland VP-7 perched on the Korg microARRANGER's included music rack.

Scott,
I never heard a Roland, Yamaha or Korg vocal processor that compares to the TC stuff. The Voice Live touch made the s910 playable for me while I waited for my PA3x. It's small, easy to use, easy to modify and STELLAR sounding.

UD, have you had a chance to compare the 'even smaller' size TC Helicon Harmony M with the VoiceLive Touch? Now that I realize the Harmony M doesn't have to sit on the floor, but can be positioned on the microARRANGER's music stand similar to the Roland VP-7 (pictured above), I'm leaning to getting the TC Helicon Harmony M now. Though the VoiceLive Touch includes a cool vocal rec loop feature and more vocal efx settings, I'm basically wanting a small as possible form factor vocal harmonizer unit with decent reverb efx, so I can plug my mic into & sing (with VH) thru my microARRANGER. btw: I'm really having a LOT OF FUN with the micro sized Korg Arranger & apprec its ultra lightweight grab and go portability yet without compromising pro level sound. - Scott

Scott that would be a kool setup with the HarmonyM & microArranger ....... there is a massive difference between the T4 VH ( as all Yamaha VH's) & the TCHm unit, quality & tracking just for starters...good luck & let us know how you make out with it.

Hi Scott & Donny

I use a Harmony M with my Pa2x and find the M has better sounding voices than the Pa ie less robotic it's very easy to use live 5 or 10 presets rather than 240 in the Touch. I am going to check out a micro today they have just arrived in the UK and if I like I intend to use the Harmony M/Microarranger/Shure WH20 rig live. Watch this space I will post some examples of the M
harmonies ASAP

Here is a quicky

http://www.box.com/files/0/f/52194652/Music#/files/0/f/184985981/1/f_1449459066

The style is on the Micro it called 8 Beat analog 1

Regards

Col

This is a good example of the Harmony M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJvN0Ct-EcA

Regards

Col

Yes good stuff...I have seen this before...very kool demo.....aside from the great tracking & quality VH you get with this TCHm unit compared to most of the arranger KB on board processors this is a perfect example of why I would never use a headset mic ever again...working the Mic with your head at different angles is imperative to achieving great vocal dynamics when singing. The Harmony M also works better via midi signals with some KB's vs others also which has been my experiences regarding chord tracking. It's not a magic box.....you MUST know how to utilize singing with VH where & when & what type to apply it in a song because inexperience sounds gimicky just as easily through it.

Some folks can use a headset mic and some folks cannot--it's that simple. Headset mics seem to work just fine for Madonna, Garth Brooks, Michael Jackson, Jimmy Buffett, Alabama, and an endless list of other great vocalists.

Singing into the mic from different angles doesn't change any of the attributes of a vocal harmonizer, at least other than harmony clipping, which can occur when the signal strength is too low from using a pull-away technique. If you want great vocal quality you need to learn vocal control.

The midi signal coming from the keyboard and fired into the vocal harmonizer tells the harmonizer what key the singer is supposed to be singing and references that information based upon the midi signal sent. That signal has absolutely nothing to do with the actual vocals themselves. You could be playing in "C" and singing in "D" and the vocal processor would still be basing the harmony on the key of "C". Of course if you were using pitch correction, then the vocal processor would correct your voice to the key the keyboard was playing, but that's another subject.

Donny is correct in that you MUST change your singing technique if you wish to use a vocal harmony processor with any degree of efficiency. Singing with a vocal harmony processor is an art-form in itself and requires a fair degree of vocal discipline, including breath control.

Most of the individual singers I've seen in person that utilize the pull-away technique were trying to hit notes out of their comfortable vocal range. Essentially, they were screaming out that high note while rapidly pulling the mic well out of effective range for any mic. I've seen some jazz singers pull the mic all the way down to their waist-line when screaming out those highs. The mic would have a better chance of picking up the person's stomach growling than their voice.

While learning to effectively use a headset mic requires a fair degree of change to traditional singing technique, the headset mic provides the user a degree of freedom not possible with a traditional, hand-held mic on a stand. No more worrying about where the mic is while making changes on the keyboard, eye contact is much better with the audience and you can change your position from sitting to standing, or vice-versa. That's why I, for one, would never go back to a hand-held mic on a stand.

If you wish to hear some of the songs I've performed using the Harmony-M, PSR-3000 and Crown-CM-311A headset mic, go to my Jukebox and listen to Feels So Right. This was recorded to a Zoom H2 from the keyboard's headphone output during a performance last fall.

Good Luck,

Gary

Gary... I appreciate as always when you let me try your crown headset mic a while back....but as a "power singer" as myself & here lies the key vs singers who aren't.... it's just not for me....on stage whether I'm playing keyboard or singing solo in from of people I need a wireless handheld always....both have their good & bad points ....but it's just NOT for my style of singing & performing. There are a few other reasons but I wont get into that now..

Good Luck

Gary ... while you and I are most often 'on the same page' about things, I have to disagree with you on a couple of points ...
First, when you talk about 'jazz' singers I 'assume' you are talking about people like Sinatra, Bennet, Ella, Torme and more recently, Michael Buble and Diana Kraal - people who sing primarily from the "Great American Songbook" - ...
I do not agree that these vocalists are "trying to hit notes out of their comfortable vocal range", not by a long shot ... but knowing how to effectively use a hand held mic, they are making sure that the power note they hit does not cause distortion by the mic being too close ...
Secondly, while it is true that many, if not most, of today's pop or country performers use headset mics, one major reason is the amount of 'choreography' that goes into their performances - yes even people like Garth - very little of what happens on stage is NOT well rehearsed, even the seemingly 'ad lib' or spontaneous happenings ...
AND working with every one of these performers is a well trained sound man at the mixer, who knows EXACTLY when to boost or lower the feed from the 'star's' mic.

Microphones, like politics, religion, and keyboards are chosen by individual needs and tastes ... you and others obviously do VERY well with a headset, while Donny and others do VERY well with a hand held ... that's why they make and sell BOTH ...
JMHO ...
BTW ... if I am wrong with my assumption above, I beg your forgiveness ...

PS Scott... sorry if this thread goes in the wrong direction ...

Tony,

The Jazz singers I was referring to were local gals who have great voices, but have a tendency to sing out of their range. Not at all unusual, especially in the nite-clubs and bars in Baltimore. I wasn't talking about Mel Tourme, who is one of my all time favorites. I've seen him perform in person and to be perfectly honest, I don't recall him pulling the mic away--ever, but I could have missed that because I was so enthralled with his performances. I've seen Sinatra do it, but not as often as you might think. Sammy Davis Jr. did it a lot, but I can't recall Dean Martin doing it very often, if at all. Dean had a soft, laid-back voice that always seemed to be in a comfortable range for him.

Like I said, a headset mic is NOT for EVERYONE! It works just fine for me, and it works for a lot of great singers who make me look like I don't know how to sing at all. I'm NOT condemming handheld mics--they work just fine for lots of performers, and keep in mind that I used one for more than four decades before going to a headset mic, and I never used a pull-away technique. I didn't need to. However, since switching to a headset mic, and utilizing the freedom it offers a OMB entertainer, I for one, would never go back to a handheld mic on a stand. In this business you use what works best for YOU, not something someone on the forum says is the ONLY tool or technique that works.

Don Mason tried the Crown CM-311A and it wasn't comfortable for him, therefore he went back to a handheld mic. Donny just didn't like the results he got, but he changes gear faster than I change underwear and socks. What Donny likes this afternoon is tomorrow's Ebay sale of the week. Of all the entertainers in my immediate area I'm the only one that uses a headset mic. All my audiences think I have a wonderful voice, but what the Hell, they're all older than you and I so they've probably lost some hearing acuity. About 5 years ago, there were a half-dozen locals using headset mics, but most have either retired, or have passed away.

I don't expect, or even want everyone to agree with my assessment of mics and singing techniques. I only offer my opinions and experiences as another point of view from my perspective as an OMB entertainer who has a modicum of experience with a wide diversity of audiences and equipment. I sincerely believe that everyone should try new and different techniques, even some that may sound unorthodox if they think it will make them sound better. Not often, but once in a while, something comes along that may change your way of thinking.

Cheers,

Gary

Tony, if you and Lydia get back to this neck of the woods I can still cook a mean filet mignon--even in the dead of winter.

+1 on the GARY SPECIAL Filet Mignon!!....YUMMY! I know this first hand ....

C'mon down, Donny. The welcome mat is always out.

Gary

Thank you Gary.... you never know when I'll pop up again in MD..

Yep ... Fortunately been there, done that, and look forward to doing it again ...