Nigel,

I understand that some of those complaints are likely due to people who got the first stuff off the line. Typical problem these days, things get sorted by the next production run.

Anyway, the unit I had here at the studio was in working condition on every note. Every function worked as advertised, also.

But of course I don't expect the same kind of action and all from a keyboard with a pricepoint so much lower than the one you are currently playing, either. As an engineer, I consider all designs of man to be a series of tradeoffs and we must weigh the tradeoffs carefully whenever specifying any piece of equipment for any possible task consideration. In order to get all those assignable CC knobs, the tradeoff there was the keybed. However, when used in conjunction with my 88 key piano that does NOT have all of those controller functions, I got the best of both worlds onstage, as is the fellow who talked me out of that very affordable Keystation.

My aging back can tell you that carrying two `40lb keyboards stacked on a rack still beats the Roll-R-Kari, B3, Leslie, Wurly piano, Rhodes suitcase piano, Hohner Clavinet and the Yamaha 88 key portagrand!


--Mac

Hi Mac,
Yes you are right there are always trade-offs in keyboards especially when I cannot justify the expense of buying a top of the line RD700. Also I agree that the second generation of a keyboard is typically better and I still have the M-Audio keyboard on my list to re-evaluate. I must say I'm very happy with the solidity and keyboard action of the Studiologic VMK-188 Plus and the sounds from the Ketron SD2 all at a very reasonable price. The trade-off's in this case are the very "basic" MIDI implementation in the Studiologic.

Once we get a response from AJ and Ketron regarding the Fast Rotor setting for the Ketron SD2 I will spend some more time on getting this rig sorted out and let you know how I get on.

Best Regards

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Nigel Spiers
Blues and Views

Received a reply via email today, this message got forwarded by Ted at Ketron USA to Italy and back through him to get to me:

We will have to be able to send some SYSEX commands as well. This may impact the brand and model of keyboard controller, I think. Will have to investigate further, of course.




Just received this info, haven't had time to try it out, wanted to post it as quickly as possible so you'd know also.

Will be trying to send the Sysex with software sequencers, Powertracks first, just to proof the thing. Unfortunately, I don't think any of the keyboard controllers I've got onhand here can send any SYSEX, mumble-mumble, where's the manual...

--Mac

Why in the H did they do it that crazy way instead of simple CC's?

Don't they know we will use the modules (SD2, SD4, Midjay, SD3 etc) with MIDI CONTROLLER keyboards as well as some that may use PC's?

Lee

Hi Mac,

Thanks for this update. I don't have Powertracks to try this out - just BIAB or my keyboard controller which definitely can't send this kind of string to SD2.

PS I got a bit desperate the other day and went and bought a Line 6 Leslie pedal called a Roto Machine - big mistake!

I'll await results of your testing before I take next steps.

Best Regards


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Nigel Spiers
Blues and Views

Well, the SD2 is actually the sound engine lifted out of one of Ketron's keyboards. As such, it represents a dynamite way to upgrade MIDI sounds for those of us who own plenty of older keyboards with built in synths. That's the reason for my interest in the Ketron, and even if I never ever had the tonewheel organ drawbars and rotating speaker effect I would still call this little box a darn good bargain at its street price. Instead of upgrading an entire keyboard yet again, less than $400US puts me at the forefront of great samples. That's MUCH less than buying the latest and greatest keyboard one mo' time.

And the M-Audio Keystation 88 Pro can indeed send Sysex, programmable from its knobs, according to the manual, so there's at least one solution for getting at the drawbars and rotor control.

AND -- there are at least three software pieces available for free download from the Ketron website, one for Sonar, Logic and Cubase IIRC -- these have pictorial drawbars and leslie control on them for use with DAWs, etc. Here's hoping an enterprising programmer might roll up a generic one in VST guise that would run from any VST capable software.

All in all, still a great bargain no matter what. I don't expect ketron to redevelop things for a product of this type, at least they let us know the drawbars and rotor are IN the thing, I wonder how many other companies would have simply avoided the issue and not told anybody, electing to make the money off of the 380 MIDI patches alone, leaving this information hidden.

Its a great little box.


--Mac

Mac,
Thanks for the perspective. I want to either get a SD-2 or a SD-4 which is supposed to be out soon..

Waiting to see the SD-4 first and the price to decide...

I will do some homework as to how I can send the sysex.

Lee

To Nigel--

I got the rotor effect to work tonight using Powertracks to send that Sysex followed by Controller 30 set to either 0 for OFF, 64 for Chorale and 127 for Fast.

Not all that excited about the effect I hear on the stereo nearfields, though, the 64 and 127 are static. In other words, there is not the excitement of spin-up and spin-down, it is a choice of one or the other (unless I'm missing something here). The effect is also not all that dramatic IMO, don't know how valuable it would be in a live situation actually. Well, maybe a little, but after using the B4 live, I'm not sure if this will be a worthwhile replacement or not, a pity since I was hoping this would be the last thing I would need in order not to have to drag a laptop to every gig, just to use the B4.

YMMV, but unless I can come up with spin-ups and spin-downs, I think I'll just have to settle for what the SD2 can do and does do really well, which are the piano and the midi instruments, the drawbar organ inside it does sound pretty nice, and the MIDI organ patches, some of which at least have Chorale effect off of the Chorus CC93 will have to suffice, I think.

But my copy of Native Instruments B4 organ with leslie simulator plus laptop is still going to go to the gigs, right alongside my SD2.


--Mac

Hi Mac,

Thanks for your testing and update and it's great to hear that you got the rotor working.
Interestingly I have also come to similar conclusions as you i.e. I will use the ketron SD2 primarily for BIAB and live I will use the SD2 for Piano & Rhodes plus maybe one of their bank organ sounds - Gospel Organ. I have played extensively with the SD2 drawbar sounds and unfortunately they just don't work for me - no zing - they remind me of a Farfisa on holiday. I believe that some of the bank organ sounds in the SD2 (e.g. the Gospel Organ) may have been sampled from a real Hammond organ and Leslie speaker.
For the majority of organ work I am currently investigating the Voce Drawbars and Spin units. I play Blues, Soul and Gospel music and what I really want is that amazing Hammond/Leslie sound where during slow songs all your hear of the organ in the background is that fast rotor sound and maybe just a touch or no drawbars at all - more air than actual tone.
Having now made the move from a single and very expensive proprietary keyboard (Roland VK8) to a workstation and module solution I am still very happy with this route. I now don't have to put up with the frustrations of some good sounds and some unplayable ones - I will just purchase the modules I need to get a selection of really high quality sounds at a reasonable price.
Anyway - thanks again for all your help and I wish you all the best in your quest for a great live keyboard rig.




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Nigel Spiers
Blues and Views

Hi all,
The SD2's sounds were created via Sample Synthesis. In other words, sounds sampled at a few velocties,then edited via synthesis... Loop points set, then vibrato added with LFO's, then pitch adjusted.

When no one could answer me about why certain sounds weren't quite 'right'( or if they could they possibly wouldn't bother to reply) I got the hair to look at the SD5's manual. Keep in mind that this little tiny box is the sound engine from the SD5 Arranger keyboard. Most any time I want to find out more about the SD2 I go looking in the SD5's manual, especially seeing as there is virtually no info in the SD2's manual, other then the patch and bank assignments and the SysEx commands.

Want to know the polyphony, or any other simple info that is 'need to know' stuff? You won't find it in the SD2 manual. You have to find it in the SD5's manual.

I believe this unit was designed for the desktop musician and not really for the working live musician attempting to control it via a keyboard.