http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGKiVHVCHVc

How can you use the Kronos as an arranger???

That was awesome, Al.

That guy has a wicked left hand bass.

The guitar lead at the end was very, very good.

Are you doing something similar with yours?

Ian

Al,

I can imagine that Tyros 4 and a Kronos would be some kit to have, when I bin the Audya I think I will buy the Kronus.


Smilies not required on account of this been serious

Tony

Yes, I agree Tony...a perfect combination


Ian

This kind of demo is why arranger players aren't interested in workstations...
I would have rather seen someone play some standards, songs with some of the styles rhythms you have on an arranger KB, waltz, polka, chacha, merengue, R&R, 6/8 ballad etc.. on the KRONOS..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRqx9yC6Fzc&feature=related

Try this out for size and sound, this is my goal now.

Take a look at this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eovsM_r3wI&feature=related


got to have one now...

If you think of it that the Audya has the best styles, The Jupiter 80 has the best accoustic instrument simulations and the Kronos has the best of the rest, those 3 would make a dreamsetup.


The KARMA, could work as an arranger, but that would require alot of programming and not have the depth of current arrangers. No intros ends and fills... and not as much diferentation between the different chord types... Just different arpeggios and/or KArmfied loops per track.

Horses for courses, Donny. Simple as that. On a purely synth forum you'd probably find your question turned 180 degrees with someone asking 'why doesn't the guy play something we can relate to', not this Broadway musical stuff. I don't think anyone in the market for a Kronos is looking play pop stuff, for want of a better term, do you? That said, Baartmans, et al, could probably manage it. As has been said so many times, it's the player, not necessarily the tools.

Kronos is made for different stuff...it excels at what it is designed to do...be a powerful synth.

Arrangers are altogether different.

Ian

If you combined the T4 with the KRonos 88 in one instrument, you would get every composers dream....

Arranger and KARMA combined with the powerfull synth engine and the SA acoustic voices would allow for so much creativitty..

Arrangers allow for a lot of flexibillity when just jamming and improvising..


Sadly most arranger players only use their arrangers to copy the artistic performances of the real musicians.

Oh, I am very impressed with the Kronos...and it has a warm rich overall sound that I like...does not sound digital to me, of course, you could make it sound that way.

We had an old Korg PS-3200 (I think that's the number)in the studio...it looked like an old phone exchange, and it had a detachable keyboard, and was fully polyphonic.

The guy I worked with sold it to a collector in British Columbia, Canada...man, did it have some awesome sounds. We use my old Jupiter 8 now for analog stuff.

The Kronos reminds me of that old Korg synth...that same warm quality.

With a Tyros4 you truly would have a keyboardist's dream setup.

I envy Tony already...he's very serious about getting one.

Ian

can the Kronos sound like this ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGxlk9fu1...JjxqW6jo6wBr-mm

I have actually played the Kronos. You will be hard pressed to find a decent guitar on it. My 8 year old PA1X has better guitars on it. I am not saying its a bad instrument. I am just saying technology does not replace talent

A workstation should be able to create ANY KIND OF MUSIC no matter what the genre......there will always be a VERY WIDE Gap between arrangers & synth workstation....better business sense & profit that way..

I certainly wouldn't use a Kronos for guitar sounds (although they are good)...the Tyros4 has quite a great selection of SA acoustic and electric, and is hard to beat for real-time performance control, especially whist playing styles.

The Kronos has other things I'd find very useful, especially the Karma engine, and the analog synth emulators.

That's why it, coupled with a Tyros4, would be a dream setup.

Ian

AGREE!
DonM

That Karma engine would be so cool for doing ad soundtracks, or radio donuts.

When we first started doing them, we used a constantly cantankerous Polymoog and an old 16-step analog sequencer...and no MIDI.

As the old saying goes, "You've come a long way, baby!"

Ian

When I was doing Ads, right after college, we used real live musicians playing antiquated things known at the time as trumpets, drums, pianos, B3s. Back in Oklahoma we used tom-toms and snake rattles. I don't think sequencer was even a word yet!
Don

I did that routine too, with real musicians, Don, although getting the Mini-Moog and Polymoog synthesizers opened up so many possibilities. The local CBC Radio Corporation station wanted electronic music for many of the segues between shows so myself and another guy formed a little jingle company to get some extra work between playing jobs with the band.

At 62, I've experienced quite a few years playing professional (acoustic piano/Hammond) before the first basic sequencers and synthesizers became commonplace and available to the average man...electronic music was big back then with Tomita, Morton Subotnick, and Walter (destined to become Wendy) Carlos, all doing electronic albums, so the local station wanted to be as progressive as possible at the time.

It worked out pretty good for us, and I still see one or two of the CBC technicians I worked with (now long retired) at the Mall when I go for my daily walk. We made decent money for the time, but the most important benefit was the experience with synthesizers and recording methods that was to serve me later on in getting work with Roland, Casio, and eventually Yamaha.

Strange when you look back and see the process that took us to where we are today...makes me believe that "everything happens for a reason".

Ian

PS...Does the Korg PA3X have a decent snake rattle preset?

The Kronos uses the STR 1 sound engine which is designed specifically to model plucked stringed instruments. (It was also on the OASIS)

You will find demos here http://www.korg.com/product.aspx?pd=214 (Ckick on the STR 1 demo) and as you will hear; its flexibility is way beyond anything the T4 sample layer switching can ever hope to achieve.

The difference between the 2 being that you have to set up the Kronos yourself, whereas the T4 does everything for you, thus it is easier to sound great OOTB with a T4, but severely limiting when you want to make something your own.

That essentially is the difference between a Workstation and an Arranger.

Bill

Yes, that's all true, Bill...and one of the reasons I chose Tyros4.

I'm very, very lazy, and I want my keyboard to sound super duper right away, straight out of the box. The Tyros4 delivers in spades!

I'm a player first, and a programmer/tweaker a distant second, although the Tyros4 gives me enough sound tweakabilty to keep this arranger player VERY happy!

Playing left hand chords and still being able to trigger nuances on my selected SA/SA2 right hand sounds is a dream on the Tyros4, which makes it such an expressive "live" instrument, again why it is my first choice of arrangers.

The difference for me would be...I could gig with the Tyros4 and a Kronos, or just a Tyros4, but not with just a Kronos...just not enough arranger capability for me, although the Karma engine does sound super.

Again, all my opinions.

Ian

If you read some of my posts, I have always said that a T4/Kronos combo would be one hell of a rig.

As to the T4 on its own, it’s one of the best Arrangers out there, however for me I find its capability’s to limiting. (I don’t play out live, so I am the opposite of you in that I am more a technical tweaker)

One thing that has always followed me through life though is the realistic reproduction of music, which is why my sound systems through the years have not been all in ones, but a careful match of components.

Bill

Bill, what are you using for a sound system; you made it sound so good.

John C.

Very Nice!!

Did anyone tell you that on Kronos people don't use anything out of the box, but tweak it till it sounds just like you want it to sound, because thats what a synthesizer is all about. But then most people have been spoiled in the last decade by the great sounding Motif presets... Tough even Moitf allows you a lot of edditing depth.

Thats where most arrangers fall miles short, and even Korg PA series is trailing there.

In the era of sampleplayers, people just load a new sample to get the sound they want...

Brilliant video. Amazing synth.

Kronos and Tyros 4........heaven!!

Bachus, you sound in your posts like you know very much about synths, arrangers and their uses and players, and I always enjoy your views and opinions.

I would love to hear some of your own recorded work, on whatever instruments you are using presently (or had previously)...could you send me some of your work privately?

MP3 would be fine.

My email is in my profile, and you have my word that your work will be kept strictly confidential, and would never be shared elsewhere, or posted here or anywhere else.

I figure if your playing/user ability is anywhere close to your extraordinary knowledge of synths, arrangers and their ilk, I'm going to be in for a real treat.

Don't worry about genre...I have a completely varied taste in music so I'm very open to anything experimental or individualistic.

Thanks,

Ian

As long as my performance doesn't sound like this, i'll stick to composing and only playing for my own pleasure. Music is a hobby for me that makes me relax after a stressfull day at work. Does it really matter how good a player i am, as long as i am having fun?

http://soundcloud.com/mister088/jazz-kronos

Thanks for your reply, Bachus.

Playing music does the same for me after a busy day, even if that day included playing music for professional reasons.

At home I get to play what I want...at work, it will depend on the job and/or audience.

I was just interested in what stuff you were doing and how you were accomplishing it...nothing more. You show a good deal of knowledge on what is pertinent in music today, and perhaps in the future.

We all have a message in our music...I just wanted to hear yours.

Ian

That's what I thought and thats why I am going a looking at the Kronos next week and the Audya is finally going.


Tony

Thanks for posting that, Bachus. I don't think I've heard any arranger sound that good. That would fool a lot of ears into thinking it was an actual combo. The guy knows Miss Jones really well.

Cool Tony. I look forward to hearing what you think about it. It is on my radar too so I want to hear your impressions and I know you have other pro keyboards to compare with. It's not only the sound I am interested in but also the ease of navigating the menus because I would be using it live and want to be able to pull up sounds instantly during live performance.

Nigel,

With the KKW (Korg Kronos Workstation) it’s a new start and thanks for you post.


I spent a lot of time with the Audya, had a lot of problems with it early on and would have loved at the time to just hand it back and get my money back, for reason which I can only tell you on a PM I could not do that, I was locked it to keeping it, it was a dealer thing from where I bought it. I was battered when I came on SZ by one person in particular (you know who, cleverest man on the planet), the Audya is good but alas not that good. In fact you know I have the T4 on top and the Audya on the bottom and frankly they are Worlds apart and they are probably like a fine tuned Yamaha racing bike and a Harley Davison, the later being the Audya, it will get you there but you will need to work at it, it’s heavy going. There are a lot of people who have had lots of problems with the Audya and still have. Skude I know is not a upfront complainer, but he still has major problems and it was never ever right that he should suffer in this way, and all the other Audya owners who gig and fear the hell of turning it on an it not working, this is not right. It does appear than Ketron are not concerned, if they were they would step up to the plate and fixed these thing. The Ketron design is dated, but like me swayed with it and even some SZders went on over the drums etc, even DonM bought one reckoned he never had one bit of trouble with it, best thing since sliced bread, but it was so good he got rid of it about a year back, I am a slow learner. If you have both T4 and Audya you will know if you want to go out and impress someone straight off you would take the tyros 4, why first of all when you plug it in and it boots up its going to work, Yamaha made 1000’s, the Audya I doubt if they made 1000. I have had not had any problems recently but others will tell you they still have, you can read their stories on Ketron SZ, there are still people with problems and Ketron aren’t going to help them, Ketron are a Company devoid of heart, soul and consciousness, they never had a PR department that perhaps tells all. (help-at-Keton@co.it) would have been at start. Once you have bought a Ketron you are in the hands of the dealer and most know nothing about the Audya. I don’t know of any Audya that’s ever gone back to Italy and been fixed. I have given it long enough I just hope there is someone out there who is mad enough to buy it from me, I know I am going to take a big hit and hey guys if someone doesn’t want to buy it to play it, they can always buy it for spare parts. If Ketron ever go out of business ( if they carry on as is) they may, an Audya for spare parts will be a real prize. DonM moved on it’s time for me to do so.

Remember one thing, owning an Audya if you want to send it back to Ketron is like toothpaste, easy to get out of the tube, but impossible to put it back in.


Thanks Nigel

Tony

I think this is the best demo I have ever seen

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eovsM_r3wI&feature=related

What do you think, I hope this guy from the UK does some more, he should work for Korg

That is a great demo. Now I really want a Kronos. Thanks for posting that. From the opening logo I would say he already does work for Korg.

Nigel,

Never seen him before and lots of Korg people doing demos , your right about the logo, I got so engrossed Nigel I never even looked at it. When I went to look at it in Manchester, I couldn’t play it because there was a chap playing a T4 on full power for about 1 hour and had to go, but what it did notice was the hellish quality of the touch screen, this is the best I have seen, it’s as good as the Ipad if not better and the graphics well see if you can go touch and see it yourself. Korg do go one up on ergonomics and aluminium knobs cutting out plastic, the Pa3x is the same top quality.

Tony

Tony, I often wish I still had an Audya, and I may again!. The 76 note version didn't suit me very well. I didn't like the location of the wheels, and I prefer joystick.
I didn't have any problems at all with it, but I don't do the extensive, or intensive, work with external sounds and samples that seem to cause others problems.
Also, I was able to recoup most of my investment after using it from close to two years.
I generally don't keep anything more than a year or two.
The Audya was the best arranger I've ever owned. The BK7m was by far the best arranger for the dollars invested.
I'm still evaluating the PA3X. There's a lot to like about it, with the combination of size, weight, ease of use, features and sound.
DonM

Hi Don,

Moving the Audya around is like a lump of lead and not gold and number of people say they like stick rather than a wheel, I don't know. You were very lucky not to have any problems with your Audya, there are very few of you, a lot of people have had something go wrong. The Company needs to gets its act together or it won't survive, there is a lot of competition out there and if you are the top of the pile with regard to cost you need to offer more than just live drums, the high cost should not reflect retrospectively the number of products you sell, the real cash value of an Audya needs to come down more in line with the competition, not what Ketron think they can con out of the customer, that’s is presently what is happening. Don't get me wrong when real proofs start to play the Audya it sounds fantastic look at Jack Cannon, but so does the T5 and the Pa3x, they all sound good in the right hands. I can get some hellish sounds out of the T5 but I have to work hard to make the Audya sound good and the styles on the T5 are far, far better, there are more around also. What Ketron will do is stand still, they don't have a business plan that includes the customer, their motto must read “ the customer is always wrong ", they will get left behind, this is a big boys business and they need to up their game. People on SZ appear to changing KB like they are all going out of fashion, it’s rather interesting, I don’t know what going on, they will either find their own level or run out of KBS to buy. I think the T5 and the Kronos will see me out, I can’t think of a better set up, I have seen one or two demos with people who do have this setup, if you want to program lead voices to some tune the Kronus is the beast, it will be like playing the Mighty Wurlitzer, you won’t get the same sound twice in one day.
Good luck Don with whatever you get.

Kind Regards
Tony

Tony, have you got to investigate the Kronos yet? From what I have heard of it and in the short time I have had to try it myself it really seems like a winner. I tend to agree that the Tyros 4 and a Kronos would be a killer combination.

Think your right Nigel and Bill Wersi Abacus has got it on his radar not saying is is going to shell out and buy the T4 and the Kronos but he knows what the potential of the two bits of kit sat together will be, it will takes some beating , it will have to be one hell of a a big stick!

I am off to the dealer this week just hope the T5 nuts are not there giving it hell and then we can hear the Kronos. Don't forget Nigel if the T5 comes out in black they will even be the same color.

Tony

So your thinking AUDYA 5 over your new KORG PA3x?....
I'm confused

For all the bad press, I know I would buy my Audya 76 again. There is nothing like that live sound (IMO).

Eventhough my KMA isn't a PA3X, I now have Korg styles also,
which a find very good.

Bernie

Bernie,

I know you love your Ketron to bits, I don't think you had an early built one I did and so did Skude, mines OK and now ready for sale, maybe you could use a spare one for the other hand all joking apart you stick with it if you really like it, that does happen much round here. I don't know if you have tried the T4 but have you notice people don't bitch about them and the only time they are likely to get rid is when the new T5 comes out, there must be lessons to be learnt from in there, its what turns you on Bernie and no one else, keep of swinging it Bernie down the old gigs.

Tony

I'm ALWAYS thinking . . .

DonM

Don your scaring me !! call me l8tr..

I think I'll forget keyboards and go fishing. Supposed to be 80 here today!
DonM

How about a Audya 4 and a Kronos or JP80 to controll it (or maybe even both) I would think about that.....