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#338584 - 02/03/12 10:00 AM Requested Feature for Yamaha MusicFinder
kbrkr Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 2866
Loc: Tampa, FL
I've sent a feature request to Steve Demming at Yamaha, which many of you have also requested, over at PSRtutorial. I would like to solicit additional feedback helping my case to Yamaha for those who support this additional feature to MusicFinder.

To view it, please click this link:

http://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php?topic=16576.0

Thanks Guys and Gals


Edited by kbrkr (02/03/12 10:01 AM)
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Al

Pa4x - LD Systems Maui 28 - Mackie Thumps

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#338588 - 02/03/12 10:30 AM Re: Requested Feature for Yamaha MusicFinder [Re: kbrkr]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Yamaha needs to adopt the KORG "song book" to replace the MFD....maybe in the next arranger line of KB's...in all my Yammy arrangers I have never even used the MFD because4 of the lack of needed features...no transpose save for starters and display too small.

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#338594 - 02/03/12 11:32 AM Re: Requested Feature for Yamaha MusicFinder [Re: kbrkr]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15576
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Al,

I read your request to Steve Demming and I guess we look at this in a different light.

To me, the Music Finder Directory (MFD) is merely a miniature version of a registration, but conveniently packed into a single, scrollable folder that makes access very quick and easy. Granted, the MFD only has a limited number of features, but it is a very usable feature that many entertainers never seem to utilize. Donny is a good example of this.

Registrations, on the other hand, are an extremely powerful tool. You can pretty much do anything with a registration and save those steps in two formats--a complete bank of 8 for a single song, or one song for each of the 8 slots in each bank. Now, there are advantages and disadvantages to both methods. Eddie (Btweengigs) likes to utilize an entire bank for a single song. In doing this he can quickly look up a song in a manner very similar to using the MFD. The songs are automatically listed alphabetically because the entire bank is named by the song title. You merely press the Registration button, then using the Data Scrolling Wheel scroll do the list to the song you wish to select, press the select button and you're ready to go. You can even do this while playing another song and that song will not come into play until you press the select button.

The same is true with the MFD, but not many folks are willing to take the time to create their own, custom MFD and create registrations as well. Creating a custom MFD can either be done on the keyboard, or by using Michael Bedesem's Music Finder View program, which is downloadble at no charge. It's very easy to use and tailor made for each keyboard model.

If it saved transpose information, DNJ would love it! But, the MFD has never saved this kind of information--that's why they have both the MFD and Registrations. The MFD does save information pertaining to: Intro, Variation, Style, Tempo, Song Title, Genre, beat, allows you to copy to a favorites list and have searchable keywords.

Now, if I recall, you want the MFD selection to link to a registration. To me, that makes no sense at all. You would have to create the MFD, then create an associated registration for the exact, same song. It's double the work for the same, end result.

I guess from my viewpoint, both the MFD and registrations are both powerful tools, but they are different tools/features on the same keyboard. To overcome some of the limitations, particularly the lack of saving transposition, I merely indicate the key that I play and sing the song in the song's title. For example, "Country (C) Roads" in the MFD tells me that I perform this song in the key of "C". "A Fool Such (F) as I" indicates that I do this song in "F". So, if you're one of those guys that plays everything physically using "C" you know where you must transpose to just by looking at the title. In a registration, that transposition information can be saved and transposed automatically when the registration button for that song is depressed.

Hope this helps,

Gary cool
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#338596 - 02/03/12 11:39 AM Re: Requested Feature for Yamaha MusicFinder [Re: kbrkr]
Stephenm52 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/13/05
Posts: 5126
Loc: USA
Gary, I use a method similar to yours. How about that!! smile Wonder where I learned to do that.

I use custom MFD files on a regular basis in conjuntction with registrations. I would however like to see Yamaha implement the MFD to work like Korg's Songbook does.

Al, I did post over at the PSR forum "ditto to your comments".

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#338610 - 02/03/12 02:16 PM Re: Requested Feature for Yamaha MusicFinder [Re: kbrkr]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
And while were at it .....maybe Tyros 5 will have a
chord sequencer, VH3, & updated MFD also...bigger display, smaller overall footprint & BLACK. I mean they already have great sounds /styles just update the features to customers wants/needs.


Edited by Dnj (02/03/12 02:18 PM)

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#338622 - 02/03/12 09:33 PM Re: Requested Feature for Yamaha MusicFinder [Re: kbrkr]
jedi Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/07/02
Posts: 1125
Loc: Merrimack, N.H.
I say just add speakers and keep it SILVER , and I`ll buy 2 !! smile

Or they could just put a real keybed in a TOTL PSR and add PLASTIC buttons smile , that would work too !

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#338624 - 02/03/12 09:55 PM Re: Requested Feature for Yamaha MusicFinder [Re: jedi]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Originally Posted By: jedi
I say just add speakers and keep it SILVER , and I`ll buy 2 !! smile

Or they could just put a real keybed in a TOTL PSR and add PLASTIC buttons smile , that would work too !



I actually like the rubber buttons on the s910...but the color looks so HOME KB looking blush ....speakers I can take or leave..

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#338654 - 02/04/12 09:59 AM Re: Requested Feature for Yamaha MusicFinder [Re: travlin'easy]
kbrkr Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 2866
Loc: Tampa, FL
Originally Posted By: travlin'easy
Al,

I read your request to Steve Demming and I guess we look at this in a different light.

To me, the Music Finder Directory (MFD) is merely a miniature version of a registration, but conveniently packed into a single, scrollable folder that makes access very quick and easy. Granted, the MFD only has a limited number of features, but it is a very usable feature that many entertainers never seem to utilize. Donny is a good example of this.

Registrations, on the other hand, are an extremely powerful tool. You can pretty much do anything with a registration and save those steps in two formats--a complete bank of 8 for a single song, or one song for each of the 8 slots in each bank. Now, there are advantages and disadvantages to both methods. Eddie (Btweengigs) likes to utilize an entire bank for a single song. In doing this he can quickly look up a song in a manner very similar to using the MFD. The songs are automatically listed alphabetically because the entire bank is named by the song title. You merely press the Registration button, then using the Data Scrolling Wheel scroll do the list to the song you wish to select, press the select button and you're ready to go. You can even do this while playing another song and that song will not come into play until you press the select button.

The same is true with the MFD, but not many folks are willing to take the time to create their own, custom MFD and create registrations as well. Creating a custom MFD can either be done on the keyboard, or by using Michael Bedesem's Music Finder View program, which is downloadble at no charge. It's very easy to use and tailor made for each keyboard model.

If it saved transpose information, DNJ would love it! But, the MFD has never saved this kind of information--that's why they have both the MFD and Registrations. The MFD does save information pertaining to: Intro, Variation, Style, Tempo, Song Title, Genre, beat, allows you to copy to a favorites list and have searchable keywords.

Now, if I recall, you want the MFD selection to link to a registration. To me, that makes no sense at all. You would have to create the MFD, then create an associated registration for the exact, same song. It's double the work for the same, end result.

I guess from my viewpoint, both the MFD and registrations are both powerful tools, but they are different tools/features on the same keyboard. To overcome some of the limitations, particularly the lack of saving transposition, I merely indicate the key that I play and sing the song in the song's title. For example, "Country (C) Roads" in the MFD tells me that I perform this song in the key of "C". "A Fool Such (F) as I" indicates that I do this song in "F". So, if you're one of those guys that plays everything physically using "C" you know where you must transpose to just by looking at the title. In a registration, that transposition information can be saved and transposed automatically when the registration button for that song is depressed.

Hope this helps,

Gary cool


Gary,

I understand and do use the registrations .
However, having a programming/technical background, I look at things as Objects that interrelate to each other like the following List.


MusicFinderDatabase
-------------------

MFD Entry ------+
|
Song Object ----+
|
+--Registration Object
------------------------|
+--Style Object
|
+--Voice Object
|
+--Mic Setting Object
|
+--VH Object
|
+--Multipad Object

Items that relate to Registration Objects:

Song Object
Name
Style
Tempo
Beat
Transpose
Artist
FileName/Location
Style Object
Style Name
Type (User, INternal, External)
Temp
Beat
Transpose
Voice Object
Name
Effects
VH Harmony

..
..
..
_________________________
Al

Pa4x - LD Systems Maui 28 - Mackie Thumps

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#338656 - 02/04/12 10:08 AM Re: Requested Feature for Yamaha MusicFinder [Re: kbrkr]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
The registrations are a good way to do things regarding Saving all info vs the MFD at this time ...BUT......only 8 or ten songs per page is difficult when you have hundreds of songs to search thru page after page this is where the MFD COULD be a great tool if it saved ALL INFORMATION and REG, SMF, MP3, Lyrics all in one concise list to just scroll thru quickly in live play....and the display screen are has to be bigger 8" to 10" inches square view to mostly alleviate scrolling to a second page if you use lyrics, charts, etc, .....and all those hokey picture icons and silly colors aren't needed in a pro arranger also imo.....workarounds will always be the norm for Yamaha arranger players until they listen to the musicians and make serious changes for navigational stability for live play......sound & styles they pretty much have down pat.

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#338662 - 02/04/12 11:04 AM Re: Requested Feature for Yamaha MusicFinder [Re: kbrkr]
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9673
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
Time for a reality check smile

Now guys..don't go off the deep end...just think about what I am about to say...It wouldn't hurt for you to have some on hands experience too.. wink


Yamaha is the poorest of the modern day arrangers when it comes to the features mentioned above....and beyond what is mentioned.. grin


Korg's songbook is praised by most..and even owners like StephenM, that owned the Korg and Roland, has stated he thinks the "Songbook" edges the G70 "user program"....although I disagree smile

Biggest problem with the "songbook"...it is attached to Korg's operating system....In many ways the Korg OS reminds me of the Roland G1000...deep capabilities, but a learning curve that takes time to learn....and also needless routing to get the job done (actually the G1000 was more efficient in this respect)..

This brings me to center court... grin ...The G70 has the absolute best operating system, for getting things done..in a way that makes sense...you NEVER have to go out of the mode you are working to continue the process of editing and saving...It has the best tools for all of the above..

As an example ..when you need to use a sequencer on the Korg to edit a SMF....you have to load in another mode and re-save the edits..before going back to your performing mode...None of this flows at all..

G70 totally dominates here....

This is why I give Roland's "User programs" the edge over the Korg's "songbook"...a BIG edge.. grin

The recall feature on the G70 is also the best...I currently have about 2,000 User programs at my finger tip for immediate selection..the search is also easy..sure you can scroll with the wheel, but you can search via the finder feature...same design for SMF search, and style search..

The G70 also has software built in that allows the conversion of my "old" G1000 user programs..they are extremely accurate too..

I also retain about 2,000 styles ready for selection.....and about 4,000 SMF's..ready to go..

I just hope that down the road, Roland will not screw up the G70 design, and use a Korg type OS in the future smile...If so ..then I would have to switch over to Ketron grin

Or just keep the G70...and the best "user program" concept.. wink
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