Before anyone knocks the idea..I would say you can get very creative with this instrument, mixing it up..
I enjoyed this demo...keep an open mind. I Like the Drums in the performance creator toward the end..

I have an MOX6 here the past three months for evaluation and for future demos/clinics.

I like it a lot.

But, it isn't as flexible as an S910 for arranger duties...yes, it's cheaper, but the S910 is the better bang for the buck (and it's got speakers).

Ian

Ian since you have it at home now ..please if you have the time post a few very short demos such as things we might use with an arranger KB...
6/8 ballad, cha cha, polka, merengue, 8bt ballad, big band, etc ...why is it always funky stuff on these kb's..? I guess the Arps are a nice idea and sort of a suedo way to hae style play, but just too efficient for my needs..
I would like to hear what can be done on the Mox6 performance creator features as seen in this demo....you know my email if you want stay private should be easy to record on the fly as shown?..

No demos Donny...still working with it and also busy doing clinics with Tyros4.

You should be able to find one at any music store...they are pretty common.

Ian

ok just thought Id ask since you have one available... carry on
do you clinic with the Mox6 also?

I may be doing clinics in the spring with MOX6...not sure yet. Basically I have it for evaluation and that info goes right to Yamaha.

The Tyros4 is still the big ticket...still doing clinics/demos...it still has a great Wow! factor.

Ian

Evaluating for what purpose? It really is old technology (Motif XS) dressed up in new clothes, minus the sampler and 64 note poly instead of 128. And with USB audio - no mLan or digital available.

I would have thought Yamaha had all the evaluation it needed?

Unless there is another reason?

I love the MOX6...great instrument.

Don't you worry yourself in the slightest, Dennis...it's all under control...the one I have is little bit special...that's all I can say.

That's also why there will be no demos for Mr. Pesce.

I can assure you, no animals will be hurt during the evaluation.

Ian

Gee, you love a Yamaha instrument? Go figure hey??!!

Stephen Kay was looking to include Karma Software for the the MOX series as well as the XF/XS..there is certainly nothing much more that can be done with the hardware architecture..

Ian, I have owned the XS, XF S70XS...and tried the MOX in the shop...there is not much you can tell me I already don't know...and there certainly is no plug in arranger module coming...

Unless you can somehow configure Karma as a pseudo arranger but as Stephen Kay has repeatedly stated, Karma is nothing like an arranger.

However I believe he has modified Karma 3 (NOT available for the Kronos btw) to be able to use pseudo fills and ending Combis - but I do know that with Karma a computer is a 100% necessity, otherwise it won't run...got that from Stephen himself...

So no intrigue for me here...just a cursory (VERY) curiosity

No intrigue involved, Dennis...just another day at the office.

Ian

Here's my opinion of the MOX6.......

I checked out the MOX6 enough to realize it was really nothing special.....

Not that it was bad per se, it just didn't inspire me....

The keyed is ok, errr...average....

The sounds were okay, but felt constrained.......No Wow factor

I think the sequencer layout along with the small screen is really kinda irritating....

Felt a tad flimsy, which I could've lived with if it had the rest of the goods....

In the end, buying an MOX6 is like your baseball team needing a free-agent First Baseman who hits for Power & a High Batting Average.....However, when you scout him, you see quickly all you are gonna get is a .260 hitter with 16 HR & 65 RBI.

You can't win championships with that kind of production..........

That's why I prefer a Tyros4 to any synth (or any other arranger)...just a heck of a lot more useful...and very inspiring.

I also don't watch baseball very much...too boring (yawn)...my time is much better spent playing music.

Ian

GO YANKEES!

Q: What do you have when 100 Yankees fans are buried up to their neck in sand?

A: Not enough sand.

Interesting comment about the sounds, Steve. Those are supposed to be the Motif XS wave samples and sound engine. I had an XS6 and felt about its sounds the way you do about the MO X6 sounds. Maybe I have owned too many Roland ROM-plers. To each his own, I guess. What impressed me, more than anything, about the MO X is that for a $1000 keyboard, there does not appear to be any 5 pin DIN MIDI connections - only USB. Little by little, we are being forced to haul a 'puter around with us.

Ted

Hi Ted, the MOX 6 has Midi in/out/thru connectors on the back.? is this what you meant?

The MOX6 also has USB connectors, as well as MIDI IN/OUT/THRU...

The USB [TO HOST] terminal is used to connect the
instrument to the computer via the USB cable and allows you
to transfer MIDI data and audio data between the devices.
Unlike MIDI, USB can handle multiple ports via a single
cable.

The USB [TO DEVICE] terminal is used to connect this
instrument to a USB flash memory device via the USB cable.
This lets you save data created on this instrument to an
external USB flash memory device and load data from a
USB flash memory device to the instrument.

I think it's a super instrument...not one I would buy, as I prefer arrangers, but, a great bang for the buck instrument, to be sure.

Ian

I guess, I would rather just save my money and get up into the next level of synth/workstation.....

It's a mid-level board.....

To be honest, nothing in that price range did it for me.....

I looked long and hard.....I decided to go with used gear and get a lot more board for the $$$$$

Certainly, the higher end stuff is the way to go in most cases, although some of the new mid-range instruments are as good (feature-wise) as high end instruments several years old; for example, I could have got along as well (or better) with a PSR-S910 as I could have done with a Tyros2 (or even a T3).

Did you get the Korg Triton Extreme you were interested in?

Ian

Sorry, guys ! My error. Somewhere I saw a picture of the MO X6 back panel, and the MIDI connections apparently didn't show up. The Yamaha US site doesn't have the specs listed yet and Uncle Bert only mentions the USB interface in the the video. Anyway, I feel better now. It would concern me for the future if the mfr's started leaving the MIDI DIN's off this price of board.

In defense of the XS6 - there was absolutely nothing wrong with it. It was my first venture back into the synth market after many years, and Ian I think you hit the nail on the head - it just wasn't an arranger. My mistake. I think I bought it based on marketing hype. I am sure most MO X6 buyers will be well satisfied with it.

Ted

Hell Ted,

Those were the words I was trying to think of when Donny asked me about why I bought the Audya and here you have them " I think I bought it based on marketing hype".


Thanks Ted this old fool's not on his own after all!

Hey Tony have you checked that Kronos out yet to see how it would work for you? I'm just curious to get your feedback on it when you do. It is still on my radar. But I know you will be able to sum up the pluses and minuses very well.

Nigel,

It's been like a fairytale (GRIM) I put my Audya up for sale on ebay last week, there was another on there at £900 more than mine it was almost new. The guy looked at mine a lot cheaper so he reduced his to the same price as mine. I removed mine and let him get on with it. He then got a punt to bid at £2250.00 that's about all it is worth, he then removed it, so I put mine on again the coast is clear.
I don't need to sell the Audya to get the KRONOS, but our Doris is not like Donny's Doris, if my Doris sees 3 KB she knows I can't even play one.... she will say " SO WHAT DO YOU WANT 3 KBS FOR YOU'VE, ONLY GOT TWO FREAKING HANDS, AND WHILE I AM ON THE SUBJECT YOU'RE SPENDING FAR TOO MUCH TIME WITH THOSE OLD GITS FROM THE STATES WHO ARE ALL AS DAFT AS YOU ARE" slam the door behind her!!! I get a bit deflated and carry on.

I will go to the KRONOS shop either late this week or early next, have no fear Nigel it's on my hit list, the only problem it's black, so Doris will spot it straight away, life is terrible to me....heeeeeeee


http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330683453072&ssPageName=ADME:L:LCA:GB:1123

Regards

Tony


BTW Nigel why doesn't the ebay get inserted so you can just click???

Karma is very much like an arranger if you want it to do so... ,... even a Fill on KARMA 3 (tough it plays on top of the other channels instead in place of them). You just don't have fills/intro's and endings. But KARMA is so much more.

And then a Motif can do just the same when using all 5 arpeggios to follow your chords.... As a Motif can do the same as the MOX and more. (KARMA will obvioulsy not come to the MOX)

I have a S90ES which is comparable to an Motif ES and with its plugin boards it blows away the MOX in sound quallity and options. On top of that it has one of the best 88 keys keybeds ever avaialble and was cheaper then the MOX in new condition.


But in the end, Mox/Motif/Kronos can function a tiny bit like an arranger, but they could never replace it for someone seriously attached to their intros and endings... someone that wahts to replay the orriginal music as best as possible.

Tony
I feel lucky. I have in my shack 2 silver and 1 black KB. My old Korg 01W is black. If another black shows up, I'll just hide my old 01W, and my "boss" will not notice, unless you tell her, but you are my friend, right?
skude

Many players don't like "CANNED" repetitive styles and prefer "Creating & Composing their own style of music", nothing wrong with that,. ....there is a reason there are two separate camps that will never come as one IMO, and many different thoughts& reasoning about the use of the Arranger KB & Workstation scenarios. Is there a place for both, of course there is, let's just respect them both and enjoy playing music.

Don't most arrangers have midi sequencers (multi-track) like workstations?

In my opinion, arrangers are the best of both worlds.

Ian

Before we compare and contrast the Arranger Keyboard with a Keyboard Workstation, the important thing to remember is that the distinction is NOT that one is professional and the other is not. Today, probably the only major difference between a workstation and an arranger is the type of sounds. Arrangers generally have what is known as "bread and butter sounds" (pianos, organ, brass and so on). Where as in addition to basic "bread and butter sounds" a workstation generally has more synth sounds and also better and more effects, as well as other music creation tools too numerous to mention in this context.

In a one-man band situation, both can work to have a full band effect but an arranger would give a more live feeling to the music by the use of intros, fills and variations with in a style. If you get an arranger that allows you to create your own styles, you can make the styles tailored to the type of music you play, and you're playing technique, and with as much live feeling as you need. On a workstation, you can use midi files or program the song with all the different parts and at the gig, play over the sequence. Depending on how you sequence the midi file, you can get a band-like effect.

With respect to composing original music, both an arranger and a workstation can get you to a final original song. On a workstation, you can use the sequencer and record each track in a linear way. Or you can use the pattern chaining function. On an arranger that has a sequencer (which most top end arrangers are coming with), you can also record in a linear way. You can also use the styles to build the song using fills, variation, intros and endings to give the different parts to the song. Depending on the type of keyboard arranger you have, you can either copy or paste the different parts of the styles in to the sequencer or you can record the styles real-time in to the sequencer. When in the sequencer, you can then edit the song to your liking using the punch in recording mode, copying measures and so on. If you don't want to compose a song from scratch, both arrangers and workstations have tools to help you. A workstation has onboard arpeggios and loops while an arranger has onboard styles.

In terms of live performance, and again, depending on the style in which you perform, the advantage of an arranger is the chord recognition feature for performing on the fly, and the vocal processor.

You really have to sit down and ask your self what do you want to do with a keyboard and what would be the best way to accomplish it. Then you can look at workstations vs. arrangers and after that, you have to look at what type/brand of arranger or workstation would best fit your needs.

They both have their places, Donny...but only one has a place in my kit...the arranger.

So, you are a pro, yet you use an arranger. Why?

Are you any less "pro" because you use one?

Most, if not all, of the "pros" on SZ's General Arranger Forum use arrangers...are they any less "professional"?

A workstation easier to navigate?

I guess it depends on your point of view, but I find an arranger far easier to work with (navigate), and it gives me results the equal to, or better than, a "workstation"...and in less time.

Time is money!

I'm not saying workstations don't have their place...I just don't want to use one, now that I'm given a choice.

Ian

PS...I see you copied your post content from here...great article.

http://www.sweetwater.com/shop/keyboards/professional-keyboards/buying-guide.php

Ian I am considering a MOX8 as a second keyboard to my Tyros 4 should I be waiting a bit here if there is a new version coming , I am concerned about the 64 note poly i am going to be using it for main keyboard sounds ie piano piano/layer pad ep/layer ect so the 64 voice worries me drop out the computer stuff is cool as well and weight is good please advise on above thanks Ron

I can't say anything, Ron...I'm under an NDA agreement(Non Disclosure Agreement).

Keep checking the relevant forums.

Ian

I've said my piece, I always keep an open mind.
Enjoy your Tyros it's a fine instrument...but, in no way is it or will it ever be in the class of a TOTL a Workstation/Synth.

Ok, enough said I understand I was part of a group interviewed for the next Tyros type unit worked with Yamaha and had to sign one as well.

In keeping with the "open mind" theme, of course it isn't in the same class, Donny...that's why they make both.

Whether the Tyros4 (or any other TOTL arranger) is better, or not as good, as a workstation, will depend on your needs, and your point of view.

I simply prefer the arranger over the workstation, and obviously, most, if not all, professional players/entertainers on SZ do as well (including you).

Questions...why do you use an arranger?

Don't you use styles as well as SMF?

The arps on the workstations aren't nearly as flexible as styles for "live" play.

I'm not condemning your use of a workstation, if you choose to go that way, but, please explain why you would use one instead of an arranger?

Wasn't that one of the points of this topic?

Ian

I hope folks on this forum keep one thing in perspective; Karma on the Kronos is NOT very easy to program. If you think you are going to sit down and write a sequence in Karma within the first 7-30 days of owning a Kronos, you better think again. It is very complex and non-intuitive. You will be forced to research, read, practice, take tutorials, etc.

Using the built in drums, are another matter. You select the arp/drum track and go.

Karma is NOTHING as simple as an arranger or creating new styles, for that matter.

Thanks for the different perspective, Al.

Does the Kronos come with a number of preset KARMA patterns?

It sounds so darn good.

Ian

Another question: Does the KARMA engine recognize complex chords, and/or bass inversions?

Yes, NDA's suck, and, they still don't tell me anything.

Ian