Hi!

After Ketron and Yamaha styles, I am very close to add the Roland styles format support for vArranger.

I can now play Roland styles too.

I have a question for Roland experts.

What are the default keyboard assignment for each channel for :

- Retriggering rules
- Low and High notes limits
- Other arranger and transposition options

I see that on the new styles, you can assign the ACV/and notes limits for each section of the styles, but it seems that there is also general keyboard options

Any help will be appreciated

Live Styler can already play and automatically convert Roland styles

I dont see how this helps Dan with further developing Varranger.

On top of that live-styler converts Roland styles to Yamaha format, and there is no soundsource avaialble yet to bring the best out of the roland styles.


Dan, what soundsource are you planning to use for the Roland styles?



Keep up the great work Dan, i think you're one of the people trying to make soft arrangers an option for professional players.

Maybe you should even consider to sell a special version of Varrangers for the OSL project , actually i would be very surprised if the people behind that project would not have contacted you yet...

Dan,

i think you need and you most read Roland MIDI Implementation,

here you can download:
Roland VA-76 (Roland VA-5, VA-7 ,and VA-76 has the same arranger eingine)
VA-76 MIDI Implementation (VA-76_MI.pdf)
VA-76 Owners Manual (VA-76_OM.pdf)

http://www.rolandus.com/products/productdetails.php?ProductId=284

and here:

G-70 Version 2 Manual (PDF)

http://www.rolandus.com/products/productdetails.php?ProductId=656

and E80:

E-80 MIDI Implementation (E-80_MI.pdf)
E-80 Owners Manual (E-80_OM.pdf)

http://www.rolandus.com/products/productdetails.php?ProductId=825


and Dan your software need a style Sequencer with its own format too (maybe MIDI format with Markers recognition for intro-fills-variation-ends):

8-intro
8-variations
8-fills
8-Ends

-and one special guitar track (when you change chords the guitar track, change the chord like a real Guitar Chord Scale)
-and also:

1 track for loops slices (played through a midi midi sequence):

8-intro sliced loops (8 midi sequences)
8-variations sliced loops (8 midi sequences)
8-fills (8 midi sequences)
8-Ends (8 midi sequences)

and if you can not make a style Sequencer, then support for

MIDI style with markers and one track for special Guitar track and one for midi sequences for sliced loops will also be good.

then style creators can use third party Sequencer for styles,

and for slices ReCycle:

http://www.propellerheads.se/products/recycle/

Bachus it was a "tongue in cheek" comment...did you not notice the wink?

Stop trying to nitpick!!!

Dan already knows I think his vArranger is excellent....I do not need to keep pounding him with platitudes!!

And you still come up with all these questions and comments and whys and wherefores - it was the same all the way through on the Media Station, but you NEVER actually bought ANYTHING......

Have you actually BOUGHT vArranger? I am pretty sure you won't be buying the OSL....going on past experience. You never seem to get past the tyre kicking stage...that you got to the level of your software system you have now (and excellent system it is too) must have take you a decade or more ;-)

Just curious....

And further, I can tell you that the only, and I mean the ONLY reason vArranger was not considered for the OEM Software package on the OSL was the price, and price alone!!

vArranger is an extremely well put together software application and Dan can be very proud of what he has done, and the OSL team would have been proud to have it on-board...but the price of vArranger would price the OSL out of ballpark for a lot of the market.

By the way Bachus, my reply to your comment truly was not a criticism, just an observation, and another little "tongue in cheek" moment...Aussie humour if you like..

already said on another forum:

--------------
to be honest:

a good dream will be OSL+Varranger alliance on this conditions:(if you like you can read on other forum):
----------------------

but it does not happen(and also expected). and there is only one reason as mentioned by Miden.

but this thread is about something else.

developers know each other. if they want to work together is their choice,so we must respect that.

Yes AFG, I totally agree...vArranger and the OSL are a great match..Not to be I don't think..unless things change...
We have gone for second in line (imho) for the software arranger module, but it is STILL an excellent package. It is only second by a SMALL margin!!!...The developer is nowhere near as helpful or approachable as Dan, but we are getting there eventually!!

D

Sorry Miden.... why should i have ever bought a Mediastation? Its allways been an incomplete instable product... with features changing every other month... One moth there is an arranger and the next patch half the features where replaced with something else..

Both you and me know that Lionstracs products still are not in the shape to be sold as anything else but a testingtool..



And know i do not own Varranger, but that does not keep me from seeing how Varranger and some other software products are continously improving .... and if Dan finds the time and implements some of the features advised by AFG, the product will soon be better and with more features then most Hardware arrangers...


The only thing so far that kept me from ordering the Varranger is that i am sattisfied with live-styler for now and the fact that i dont own an SD2 which was untill recently a requirement to get Varranger working.


But then we have been at this stage before... and i'll leave it at this before we get another unwanted explosion...

DAN2000,

Fran Carango maybe
or

ask those guys here:
Roland Arranger User club

Ask for Diki

Hey Bachus, no probs m8, it is all good...no explosions here...As far as I am concerned we cannot change what has happened all we do is affect what is to come..

I seriously meant no criticism in any way really, but it DOES read that way.....I will have to modify the writing style

I totally agree with you on both of those points 9(Media Station and needing a hardware SD2), Cannot say any more than that

With the OSL, you will not NEED an SD2 at all....I think Dan is also heading that way...

The big issue with vArranger for me was nto the software per se, but rather, the ADDED cost of the hardware...which out here, added about $800 to the setup (unless one went second hand) it is a captive market as in ONE distributor who also happens to own the ONLY store that sells them!!!

Dennis

Thanks

I've found most the needed information on the Roland manuals

I was not aware about the OSL project.

Of course vArranger will work well on it, because it is Windows 7 64 bits inside.

I am ok to develop a partnership with the OSL project if there is some need, and create a special vArranger package playing well with the OSL sound set, so the musician just have to plug and play.

I don't think that every OSL owner need an arranger inside.
So maybe we can add it as an option to save money for people who doesn't need it.

Other things you asked will come in future releases of vArranger.

DAN2000, did you read Roland MIDI Implementation too,(links on first page for both manual and Roland MIDI Implementation. note:for download and to see files press support button, Support button can be seen at each instrument page).


you mean all the options you can read on my post??
if yes, this will be great.

about OSL, maybe you can negotiate with each other.

when it comes to cooperation, will be great and if it does not happened ,you an OSL developers have nothing to lose.
(maby you can do something about the price)

Dan:
Adaptive Chord Voicing (ACV), or Alteration Mode was a new parameter contemporary with G70 v3, the E-50, E-60, E-80, and newer Ateliers. I don't believe the G-1000 and VA-series can authentically process a style track containing these parameters.

Curiously, the alteration mode parameter seems to have disappeared on the GW-8 and Prelude. It's almost like a different team programmed these newer boards and didn't make any effort at continuity. I tried a GW-8 briefly (but I didn't try to import an E-50 style.) So I'm not sure whether the GW-8 would correctly process ACV.

Regarding retrigger, Roland does not have this parameter in their style creation, nor as an option during playback. It is somehow embedded in the voice samples. For example, you can take a factory style track that exhibits retrigger behavior (e.g., it sounds a tone when chords are changed between beats) and revoice it. The new voice may or may not retain the retrigger behavior.

Diki and I exchanged posts about this a long time ago on the roland-arranger.com forum. We never did come up with a definitive explanation, or a definitive list of tones which do or don't have the retrigger behavior. On the whole it's not well-documented.

Curiously, I immediately noticed that retrigger was enabled by default in GW-8, and it was added as a default on the Prelude with the OS version 2 update. I still think this is a weak point on Rolands. A user should be able to turn retrigger on or off by track. Either as part of style creation, or during playback (as with GEM's "Autobacking.")

Hope this helps,
Ted

Hi Ted,

It seems from your post that Roland decide for the voicing and retriggering depending on the sound name.

It will make my work a little mode difficult without a Roland KB

They also added a Guitar mode on new KB.

Ted?
It seems that Roland styles only save EXPRESSION and not VOLUME for accomp tracks

Is there any way on Roland KB to change the mixing of the arr tracks and save it into the style?

If yes, can someone send me a style, then change volumes, save and send me the modified style?

DAN.,

VA-7 manual p171
------------------------
Expression (control change CC11) is a subsidiary volume
message that works relative to the volume (control
change CC07) message. Whenever you set
Expression to “127” the resulting part volume will be
equal to the value specified for Volume (CC07).
The Volume values of the Arranger parts can be set in
Mixer (see page 112) mode.

on VA-keyboards

you have inside style creator a mixerscreen for:
Expression, Panpot, Reverb, Chorus

you can even record the sliders when you move them(like motorized faders):

for MAJ or MIN or 7 independently of each other, or for all 3.
for Example:

MAJ=MIN=7th
MIN=MAJ=7th
7th=MAJ=MIN
7th=MIN=MAJ

and you can also record the slider for style parts independently of each other.

for example:

for INTRO panpot from L to R and for VARIATION1 panpot from R to L.

and you can also record those sliders for each style tracks separately.

you can also set everything what you may think on MICROEDIT(midi events).
--------------------------
very, very long ago done al this on VA-76.

---------------------
on microedit you can set even 2 drumkits on the same time as layer for example basdrum from kit1 and snare from kit2
------------------------------------------------------------
on Roland VA- keyboards when you record a style

for example on ACC3 track you can record if you like Guitar1 for intro but on ACC3 for varaion1 can record if you like Guitar2

or ACC3 for MAJ on intro1 Guitar1 but ACC3 for MIN on VARIATION1 Guitar2

another example:

intro1= drumkit1, Variation1=drumkit2, fill=drumkit3, Ending=drumkit4

Yes but the mixer volumes are saved inside the style?

It seems that all you can do is change expression.

Also, I dont this that you can do for Variation 1, ACC3

Guitar1 on MAJ and PIANO1 on MIN

Hi Dan,
unfortunately I don't currently own any sort of Roland either,
wondering if EMC might be of any help?
I have Universal version. Roland style can be loaded and exported as a midifile. Would the resulting data be of any use?
Unfortunately EMC isn't 100% reliable, it does remove certain controllers. Let me know if I can be of any help.

My last Roland was a Va7, nearly 10 years ago, & my memory ain't what it used to be. haahaa

on my post this part is from manual:


DAN.,

VA-7 manual p171
------------------------
Expression (control change CC11) is a subsidiary volume
message that works relative to the volume (control
change CC07) message. Whenever you set
Expression to “127” the resulting part volume will be
equal to the value specified for Volume (CC07).
The Volume values of the Arranger parts can be set in
Mixer (see page 112) mode.

--------------------------------

other things you can read are just possibilities of Roland VA-series for styles and are all tested very very long time ago.

again:

you have inside style creator a mixerscreen for:
Expression, Panpot, Reverb, Chorus

you can even record the sliders when you move them(like motorized faders).

and yes they can be saved inside the style on VA-serie and i think you can do even more on G70 and E80.

on Roland MicroEdit you can do many things, So about your example of Guitar and Piano is certainly possible.

unfortunately I still have a persoanal zip disk but no zip drive (no longer Roland VA-76 any more for very very long time now, otherwise you could see examples).

Hi Bachus,
I'd actually bought the livestyler SD2 soundset, which I was going to use with VArranger. The disk only cost twenty something dollars or euro's at the time. I was going to use my software sample player midied to VArranger. I also bought an SD2 , just in case it didn't work out.
Unfortunately I got side tracked ( long story) & never got round to trying things out.

Just be interesting to hear if Livestyler does as good a job as VArranger with the Ketron styles. Haven't bothered downloading the latest update to Livestyler yet.

Dan's always around when someone requires help, the service he provides is hard to pass up.
[quote=Bachus]


The only thing so far that kept me from ordering the Varranger is that i am sattisfied with live-styler for now and the fact that i dont own an SD2 which was untill recently a requirement to get Varranger working.