I've been seriously thinking about purchasing a PA3x. I spent 5-6 hours on one at my local dealer. He let me play it as much as I wanted, but.......with headphones (which was probably a blessing because the amp he used for live sound left a lot to be desired!) Also, he knew nothing about the machine. I had to figure out what I could for myself.

BTW, I thought the keyboard sounds awful through headphones. But, I'm not concerned about that, because I've read so many "good" reports about it's sound quality!

My stumbling block is the dance patterns. Through headphones, they sound busy, busy, busy. Not like "Audya" busy....more like you could just let the pattern play itself and just add a few melody notes to it here and there.

Rikki said in another post, it's NOT about muting tracks, or balancing the outputs because sometimes it's about too complex a bass line.

Deane mentioned he has a problem with styles that say too much and don't allow you freedom of expression......that you have to follow what the pattern does, and it ends up crimping one's playing style.

Are my wrong? Do any of you, familiar with Korgs, find this to be true....this "busy pattern" syndrome?

Also...the Musikant styles for the PA3x...are they more subdued....laid back....less "busy?"

Mark

Hi Mark,
are you referring to Modern Dance or Ballroom Dance?

Me personally , I didn't like the Waltz Styles on my PA800. I probably got too used to my simple psr styles.

For me it was a case of a few styles that rambling on a bit too long ( waltzes, being one of them ), & I just mentioned a simple way of fixing, if that was the case. Cutting down SlowWaltz 2, from 8 to 2 bar variations, really simplified it.

I just agreed with someone else, it's not always about muting a track to make a style less busy.,

You've really got to try it for yourself, & bear in mind I'm only a hobbyist , I'm better at the technical stuff ( how to) rather than the musical side of things. I also use a lot of piano arpeggio/ orchestral type styles, that I've collected over years from different keyboards , so I have to convert if I want use them

Me personally , I luv my PA3X


Deane was also refferring to the Microarranger which I doubt has the same number of styles as the PA3X.

There's 2 or 3 ex PA800 users , that didn't particularly like their PA800/PA2X, sold them, moved on to something else, & now really like the PA3X.

DonM, stephenm52.

DNJ (Donny)was an ex pa800 owner. Sold it early in the piece. Bought the KMA & has now gone to PA500. As far as I can tell he's pretty pleased with it.

Talk to the muso's rather than a a hobbyist. haahaa

Mark you posted this on another thread, curious what happened ? You seem to have come away with a bit a different impression?

Mark,

Are you sure the headphones you used were working properly? I've never heard a keyboard that sounded bad with headphones. In fact, I've always considered the best way to really hear what a keyboard sounded like was to use headphones ONLY. If that keyboard sounded bad through headphones, it would really sound awful through a sound system.

Good Luck,

Gary

I agree 100% with Gary!

There is only one solution, create your own dance styles, they are generally the most simple styles available.

The keyboard is a musical tool used to create. Korg offers all you need to make great dance sounding styles. I personally like all the extra busy sounds instead of having less; after eliminating what I do not want and changing some of the instruments to give me the blend that I need – AND- adding the pads I have selected for that style (the pads are so important to give variety to a style) you cannot help wanting to dance.

About those who did not like one model of Korg and bought another a different model; or just returned and did not rebuy -- I feel that the lack of understanding the keyboard was the main reason. My opinion is based on my experience of deciding to sell my Pa800 at four different times and buying a KMA and returning it only to go back and rebuy the same keyboard again. I have put the time in that was needed and I am loving both keyboards. I am not discarding that there are legit reasons for people choices.

IMHO, John C.

Thought I'd add a little more since my first response was shortened by the need to get in the car and head to work.

When I demoed the Pa3x I took my own set of Bose headphones so that I could hear what I normally hear i.e. to put things on an even playing field. I agree with Gary's comments too. I wish any keyboard sounded as good thru the PA as they do a good set of headphones.

Frankieve had the EQs tweaked so that the board sounded peak. When I got mine fired it up I thought something's not right this isn't sounding so good, at that point I went in EQ'd the board and it sounded much better. With that said are you sure the board was Eq'd properly?


So far as busy styles they need to be tweaked and that's for just about any brand.

Your better off creating today's DANCE music with a workstation like the Kronos, Motif XF, etc, ..so you can make the beats, and parts "exactly like you want"...an arranger KB is IMO not the tool to use if your serious in creating House, Electronica, Bass & Drums, Hiphop, Trance dance style music etc, etc,. ..

......great comments from you guys here. I understand better what you're saying now that I spent the day going over the PA3x at Frank's place. My next step, when I get a minute, is to spend a few hours looking at PA3x videos on YouTube.

Stephen.....when you mentioned you went to AudioWorks, I thought that's what I'll do too and have Frank walk me through the steps....see what I'm doing wrong with the machine. BTW, I made sure we went through the EQ process, and I clearly heard how it enhanced the hi-hat.

When I first played it and got excited, it was over the versatility of the unit. I'm still excited about that.....I've never seen a keyboard that you can do so much with. But...as I thought about it more, the dance styles were just plain hanging me up. I don't agree with a lot of those patterns. There's something about them that doesn't sit right with me. But, as Bachus and John C. said......I could always make my own.....or convert from the styles I'm using now.

headphones....Gary and Montunoman...I hear what you're saying. It's just that I'm not used to headphones.....never, ever used them to play a keyboard. I'm more used to hearing the sound coming from a speaker.

Rikki....I'm talking mostly about the traditional sounds.....they seem to want to take you over. I don't feel keyboard manufacturers should take away those basic simple patters for trad styles. Every company should have basic styles in simple form on-board and THEN enhanced styles. As each generation of keyboards comes out, they find it necessary to give us "enhanced" trad styles and not include the basic stuff anymore. I'm really glad you're in this group with your experience with these styles and converting them. If I buy the PA3x, I hope you don't mind if I tap into some of your converted styles as we both seem to like "watered down" dance patterns.

Have any of you listened to the styles that come with the European version of the PA3x? Is that called the Musikant?

Mark

The best way to test out a new keyboard is to use your own speakers if you can. Otherwise going through a stores speakers could make it sound better or worse. Testing out an instrument with headphones might be ok, but I would never use headphones to pick out an instrument and make a buying decision. (Try setting up for example an external style on headphones. You can get it sounding good on headphones and even compare it with onboard styles and they sound like a good match. You take it and use the same style and play it through your speakers, live without trying it out first with speakers and you are likely going to be surprized that the style is not set right for your speakers compared to onboard styles. You'd never know what it will sound like until you use your speakers.

Hi Mark,
Frans I beleive may have a MusiKant version?

What keyboard are you using currently?
Basically what styles weren't you happy with on the PA3X? There were a few Ballroom ( Dance) styles that were on the PA800, that they dropped on the PA3X. I'm SLOWLY sorting thru them & resaving as PA3X. Happy to share.

Pa800/PA3x has some really great editing functions. For me, one of the handiest functions is being able to EXPORT & IMPORT a complete style as a midifile into a pc sequencer, BUT, for anyone who wants to do all their editing onboard, you've got
Event List Editor for editing, notes, controllers etc
You can cut bars,
you can change velocities of a complete pattern, or track, right down to a specific note type.
You can transpose notes.
You can copy a pad & make it part of your style ( if you have a spare track)
You can turn a style track into a pad
You can copy style tracks within the same style or from a different style , to create a new one, Mix n Match. Very handy for conversions ie I sometimes replace a track from a conversion with an onboard style track.
I converterted one of my Ketron styles a while back from a midifile of the style. Couldn't use EMC as it removed all the tempo changes in the intro's/endings. EMC made a real mess of the Live Drum track. I had a rough idea of what the track should have sounded like, & I replaced it with something similar from one of the PA800 styles.

There's a really great function called DRUM REMAP. One could virtually create a single drum track , just say for Variation 1, copy that drum track into vari2,3 &4, & by simply changing to a different mapping for each of the variations, you can make each of the tracks sound slightly different,
ie start with something soft to something heavier by the time you get to vari 4. ie basiclly it changes certain drum notes ie from a closed hihat to an open hihat, or into a ride cymbal. Stuff like that. It's actuall quite interesting playing round with the Remapping on existing styles.

If you ever get into recording styles, Guitar Mode is brilliant, you can create these amazing strums via single notes. Again it's great being able to replace a less than brilliant strumming midi guitar track with a guitar mode track.

Anyway, good luck with your choice.

I agree with Scott -- The shortest route to disappointment is to use quality headphones only to find out you cannot duplicate the sound with your amplifier. Not a good test when buying a keyboard.

I use a Bose headset to listen to my KMA, if I could duplicate that sound I would be in la la land.

John C.

More important than listening to a new keyboard with headphones....Do NOT edit your keyboard (sounds, eq, etc) with headphones....Set up using your performing PA system....and at stage levels when possible..


Another hint....I noticed several folks are editing in detail...favorite styles..these edits are including velocity changes etc...be careful, you are editing a few styles that are your go to styles, but changing these velocity settings per style will be a nightmare when you need to depend on other styles...It is better to alter or change things globally or in your mastering settings...