I do not want to get rid of the style groups. Just make all the styles in each group appear alphabetically. Then eveyone's happy.

Tom G.

And here is my cherry-pick of features that others here have already posted (apologies for not individually crediting each poster):



All GREAT suggestions that would definitely make me want a Yamaha more than I do right now!

Great topic, Steve.

In addition to what has already been suggested...

A 1/2 bar fill button to allow for songs with the odd 2 beat/bar in a 4 beat/bar tune.

The DSP variation button moved to the left hand side of the panel, and within easy reach...as of now it is practically useless situated on the far right near the top.

The modulation wheel assignable to the DSP variation.

Ian

Steve:

I represent possibly the bottom end of your market... but possibly not. I don't perform. I'm a songwriter. I need better voices (I call them instruments) and though my efforts are not limited to "country music" I do write alot in that genre. The arranger allows me to write and create melodies quickly for the lyrics I generate. Today's country uses better drum sounds, a variety of country instruments including dobros, pedal steel, resonators plus many of the instrument voices you already have in your excellent stable of voices.

Having more intros, middle breaks and outros included in each style (three or more each)would allow me to utilize the same style with different setups to keep the music from souning the same as my previous song. Right now, I do my best to never use a style more than once with certain exceptions. If the intros are different enough, then the style can be utilized in successive productions.

Please remember that my songs are mostly demos used to audition a song for an artist or producer. If they like it and decide to record it, they will arrange things to suit their style and artist... but they have to hear something that sounds reasonably professional first. There is an abiding dislike in Nashville for "Cheesy Sounding" keyboards... and fortunately, an well set-up arranger can sound like a band, an orchestra... or a simple, no frills guitar demo or worktape.

Vocal harmony is important. Better sounding backing groups with a VH system much easier to set up and utilize... would be nice.

For my purposes, I could use a much smaller keyboard. 61 keys are not important to me. I play chords and let the style and multipads add the backing needed after carefully setting up the board and selecting the instrument voices, volumes of each, etc.

I then record "live" and seldom use tracks. I use earphones only during recording thus the built-in speaker system is a liability insofar as it becomes a cost driver for acquiring the machine.

I connect the keyboard directly to a digital recorder where I can optionally use tracks (or not, usually) and then I "port" the WAV file into a PC where the edits are done before the song is converted to an MP3 song or possibly a CD for demo purposes.

USB input and output is vital to me. The need for a good earphone jack in the front of the machine plus a USB port both front and back to allow USB sticks/memory devices to be attached is important. I avoid MIDI setups like the plague. Too complex and time consuming for me. I am a songwriter first and a "techie" only out of necessity... without many skills in that direction.

A hard drive "on board" would be nice to contain all the styles but an input/output capability (via USB) is important. That way, to reduce costs, I could use a stand-alone hard drive if Yamaha's Motherboard would support an external USB drive.

Naturally, if Yamaha can keep a "weather eye" out for newer musically oriented devices and apps to further enchance the "new type keyboard" that would be a real plus. I don't use an iPad yet but can see where some of the new apps have promise and would enhance song creation in conjunction with the keyboard.

An onboard style converter would be heavenly... allowing styles from other "boards" to be utilized.

An Onboard collection of MultiPads with versatile, melody following accompaniment options would also be a super companion feature.

Most of all, I need an inexpensive unit. There must be somewhere between 30,000 and 50,000 songwriters in the USA alone and the pyramid of writers on the bottom level can "ill afford" to pay studios and session players to create demos of their work. Being able to create the entire song: lyric, melody, vocal and recording is a real plus. Unfortunately for Yamaha and the other Arranger producing keyboard manufacturers... Arrangers are relatively unknown in the USA. But that could quickly change if an extensive Youtube campaign were launched by Yamaha or it's competitors.

Finally, to keep me from having to hand-write the setup I have utilized for each song when I record and sing, it would be nice to have a printer port that would allow me to print the exact setup, volumes of each voice, master volume, vocal volume, Multi-pad volume... plus the name of each instrument, the tempo, transposition settings (sometimes I change key at the break) and other setup parameters. Then I could print the setup and name it and file it away in a notebook for this purpose. I often go back and re-cut a song after listening to the most recent creation. It's amazing how different a song can sound after being finalized than how it sounded to me the day before.

Thanks for any consideration you may be able to give to any or all my ideas. I'm certainly available if your design team needs a "guinea pig" or "sounding board" to bounce ideas around with.

Best of luck.

Dave Rice

http://ShowCaseYourMusic.com/DaveRice/

1)61key FSX and 76 key weighted key options

2)Audio loops in the styles. Atleast some of the arp stuff similar to the Motif

3)Software to easily and quickly create Yamaha Style accompaniments using audio loops(a la Garage Band which uses pattern based approach in creating songs by combining various audio loops.)

4)Tiltable touchscreen. Possibly responsive to both touch and existing non screen button presses would be nice... Just incase one of the two fails

5)More and lots more of the Yamaha premium content from musicsoft to customize and keep keyboard contents up to date.

I think that Korg's new WS the Kronos has shown the inevitable way of the future. No longer are you restricted to a few hundred MB of sound ROM... You have instant streaming access to GB's of sound data!

One thing I have read on this thread a few times is the desire for audio loops to be incorporated. I am afraid I disagree heartily! Or at least, I disagree that they should become a primary way of generating backing. They impose so many restrictions to what you can do with an arranger that the disadvantages far outweigh the benefits, IMO.

The thing is, if you go to the website of any modern VSTi drum library, and listen to the demos posted there, it is pretty much IMPOSSIBLE to tell that these aren't live audio loops of a real drummer. But they aren't! They are IDENTICAL to what you have in your current arranger.... except the SIZE and quantity and quality of the drum samples is an order of magnitude greater than current ROMPLER based arrangers.

But an arranger with a big SSHD streaming GB sized drum libraries would sound as live as ANY loop playing arranger. But you can still edit the kit... you can change the kit from a jazz kit to a funk kit... you can edit the style to swing a little less or more.... you can change the reverb on the snare alone... you can change the placement of the kick beat to suit another song better.

All things completely impossible to do with a audio loop based arranger.

Now imagine that for bass Parts, Guitar Parts, string and horn Parts, etc...

I think the move to audio loops is a very shortsighted (and hopefully short-lived) episode in arranger technology. We need little better than we have already got as far as the DATA playing the style. But an increase in the SIZE of the voice data that the sounds use would provide amazing realism with NO LOSS in editing ability and flexibility. Which, after all, especially flexibility, isn't that WHY we use arrangers?

I use the S910 for dinner/cocktail music, as well as making backing tracks for singers. In any upgrade, I wish I had the ability to plug-in my laptop to the keyboard; then, get a template on the computer screen (similar to Band In A Box), and type-in the key, chords, number of choruses, etc. to access the Yamaha styles, rather than having to play the song in real time to record the track. I've never learned step recording, since it seems too combersome. Some jazz standards in wierd keys are difficult play, where typing-in the chords is easy. Further, please allow the right hand harmony feature to work with any midi file, such as third party files. Maybe it can already do that and I just don't know how to make it work. Also, always keep a high-end arranger with built-in speakers. I play many small parties where no external sound system is needed.

Larry, have you tried slowing the tune WAY down, and just playing the accompanying chords with BOTH hands (to get inversions where and when you need them), and recording into the sequencer?

Then speed it back up again...

Probably faster than typing the chords in, setting where you want fills, Breaks, etc..

Finally (for now!)...

If you remain utterly determined to ignore the considerable number of more proficient musicians and arranger users that want and need more than 61 notes to fulfill their musical style and vision, maybe NOW is the time for a Yamaha arranger MODULE?

Little more than current Yamaha technology would be needed. After all, most arranger players buying one of these would ALREADY have a 76 arranger, so many of the 'new' features asked for here would already be in the arranger they have!

But care and attention would need to be paid to allowing the most flexibility in integrating with the master keyboard, whatever it is. To that end, user definable codes for each and every function would be a necessity to allow controllers from Korg, Roland, Ketron, you name it, to trigger Fills, Variations, Intro/Endings, Breaks, Performance selection, OTS selection, etc., etc..

Currently, no two arranger manufacturers can agree on a common set of codes to allow Variation selection on one arranger to trigger Variation selection on the other (isn't it about time this got standardized?), so allowing the USER to define what codes trigger what (hey! make it easy and include templates for Korg and Roland if you REALLY care about your customers!) would allow a player to create an 'über-arranger' from a combination of two utterly different arrangers.

Then the weaknesses of each of them could be masked by the strengths of the other.

I am quite enjoying my new BK-7m, and exploring ways to use it in more than just the conventional 'hook it to a 61 controller and pretend it's a normal arranger' way. Perhaps a PSR910 equivalent in a module form (little needs to be done but design the case and work on the trigger code flexibility) at about the BK-7m's price point would get a Yamaha into the hands of many who cannot use one right now due to your insistence that anything more than 61 notes is a waste?

Seamless sound switching. A real Sampler. USB 3.0 interface. Professional sounding Vocal Harmonizer. Full sized keys. Better action keybed. More internal memory e.g. 70MB or more. Better acoustic pianos. Better electric pianos. Better sounding Drum kits. Touch screen. Balanced outputs... hybrid jacks designed to take either XLR or TRS would be nice. SSD hard drive with streaming capability. MP3 compatibility, plus voice cancellation technology. 24/32 bit dacs. 256 note polyphony... it's high time someone raised the bar to the next level. FWIW, Roland recently accomplished that feat with the Jupiter-80, but it's NOT an arranger.

Instant record and playback of user's playing (30, 60, 90 etc... seconds worth) as featured on Roland TOTL workstations. I'm not sure if the Tyros4 currently has that ability, as I've been out of the loop for a while regarding arrangers. If it does, disregard. B3 tonewheel organ technology. Much more WAV ROM... 2GB or larger would be nice... which is still a pittance when compared to VSTi instrument sample libraries. Micro sound editing capability. Higher resolution LCD screen w/ ability to view in direct sunlight. Last but not least, (although more suggestions could be added upon further review) a 76 key option, which most likely Yamaha won't produce again until new executive leadership steps in who won't have any preconceived notions or personal reservations regarding Yamaha's previous business model decision i.e. the 9000PRO was an "experiment" never to be replicated while current Yamaha executives continue to rule the roost. Or so it seems. A new CEO may be necessary before we see a 76 key TOTL arranger from Yammie again. But here's to hoping the current CEO will have a change of heart and surprise everyone in the process. And I do mean everyone! lol

You da' man Steve! Although obviously Yamaha limits what, as well as when, you can post here on Synthzone. It's all good though. You'd likely post here more often if Yamaha didn't keep you on such a tight leash right? Ya' gotta do what the boss says. On the other hand, I would likely post here much more often too, if I actually owned an arranger. After I sold my Tyros and parted with my PSR2000 I've been arranger-less. I'm still waiting for a suitable 256 note polyphony arranger, which I imagine many other arranger keyboardists are waiting for with bated breath also.

128 note polyphony has been milked to death and a doubling of the current standard would go a long, long way in re-igniting much needed enthusiasm within the arranger keyboard market in my opinion. With all the new fangled additions being added to arrangers e.g. multipads, complex style arrangements, layered voices, etc., etc.,... it is relatively easy to exceed 128 note polyphony and experience the dreaded note cut-off(s), which can wreck havoc, especially during a live performance. I commend Yammie for seeking user input on future arranger possibilities. Roland and company have a terrible habit of excluding user input from the equation. The result, sadly, is the BK-5. That's my own personal observation and opinion obviously. The sounds on the BK-5 just didn't do it for me. Mind you, there are some pretty decent sounds on the BK-5 but it's hit and miss. More often miss, if you ask me. But at $999 it's a good choice for the beginner I suppose. But I digress. Keep up the good work Steve!