I'm really excited about an up coming dou gig that I'm doing with a guitar player. We played along time ago in a full bad and he can really play and sing really well. Anyways, wondering what would be best with the rock, blues,funk and country tunes that we going to do. Should I mute all the guitar parts on my Tyros 2 and let him cover all the guitar or just leave the guitar parts as they are. He's a very flexible, versitle, easy to work with type guy so I'm sure he'd sound good either way.

So I know there are several SZ members that are guitarist too (I'm not one of them!) If you were singing lead and playing guitar in a dou with an arranger keyboard, would you want your dou partner to mute the guitar or just leave it as it is?

Hey, bud. I "pick a little" and use one of three guitar players as often as I can, with an arranger and without.

It really depends on the player's style. I often turn the auto chords completely off and just use left-handed bass, if the player is a heavy and "dead on" chord player, and can integrate chords and lead lines. Of course, that works best with smooth jazz, not tunes with instantly recognized guitar chord sections.

Just try it out. Have the guitarist just "lay out" on intros and endings.

A player like you will do just fine.

Just with the OTHER player (the Guitarist) was....ME!


What FUN!


Russ

I meant to say "Just WISH the GUITAR player was ....ME"!

Hope I play better than I type LOL!


Russ (fumble fingers) Lay

You DO ... have no fear ...

I am guessing that you are playing live: no midi files.

1-Do not change a single thing. It’s very much like having a guest guitar player siting in. You should not change what you have been doing if it has done the job.
2-Yes, you do make room for his vocals and the keys he sings in.
3-Because you are playing live you can make room for his guitar solo.

If he is a good player with sensitivity he will know enough not to get in the way. (Musicianship)

After a bit of time If it is working out (he fits in) you can start making special arrangements.

When sitting in with a different band the best compliment I got is, “it’s good playing everything we played sounded rehearsed. My job was to fit in and add to. Stardom came latter. (Smile)

John C.

John, it's always good to hear your well "fleshed out" thoughts.
I wish we were able to visit in person.

And, maybe "pick and grin"" a little together.

Be well,

Russ

Personally, I would 'mute' any guitar part that might interfere with him ... you should be able to determine that right at the start of the style ... if he is a good player, you don't want the style interfering with what he wants to do ...

Any chance of recording some of what you guys play?

Thanks guys for the very thoughtful responses. My inclination is basically to do what John says. That would give him a chance to not have to not have to be struming away on the rhythm guitar, let him shine on his vocals and leads/fill in.

Tony, I'd love to do some recording with him. Maybe I'll try to video the gig.

Paul,

Once a year, sometimes more, I put together a party for some old friends, many of which who play guitars. We were all part of a 5-piece country band at one time, long before keyboards were a hot item.

When I switched to playing keyboard I discovered something I was never aware of - perfectly regimented tempos were something our lead guitar player could not cope with. Apparently, the only person he heard while playing was himself. You may want to spend a little time brushing up on some tunes to determine if he can follow the keyboard's strict tempo. If he's accustomed to playing with a drum machine or a keyboard player, and the keyboard provides the drums, then there shouldn't be a problem.

Good luck and I hope all goes well for you,

Gary

Guys, in the early days, I worked first in a duo; then as a trio with Tommy Johnston. He was my mentor; about 45 at the time. I was in my late teens and just getting into real jazz.

Tommy played B-3 and I played guitar. I worshiped the guy (still do, even though he passed away about 5 years ago). Sometimes, we'd add a drummer.

The problem came in the winter. We worked a dining room with a drummer in the summer...no problem. But, in the winter, we tried working in the lounge with one of the early drum machines. We almost went nuts!! Tommy rushed everything slightly. Totally live, everyone compensated, since he was playing chords and pedal bass. Man, did he have a problem with that machine. We thought about throwing it in the swimming pool.

Finally, Tommy conceded that the machine "ran the damn group", and we sort of limped along; still with an occasional problem.

Same thing happened with Claire in Lexington. I worked the lounge and she did a wonderful job on grand piano in the dining room of he Campbell House.

The governor liked Claire a lot and had her play for State affairs a lot. She took me along on upright, with a drummer.

Beautiful, talented Claire couldn't count to TWO!

Gary and others are right. All players are not able to play with tracks or automation of any kind.

Rehearsal is important. You may have to settle for a little less "flash" but a rock steady sense of timing.

Like "Sir Duke" said, "Sometime you have to learn what NOT to play".


Russ

As someone that works primarily with guitar players rather than solo (and live bands more than duos), I find that the primary reason many guitarists (and other players sync-ing with some kind of automated backing) have such difficulty locking to the machines is inadequate monitoring of the drums.

If you think about it, in a live situation, there is never the slightest difficulty hearing the drummer! Not only is he typically louder than an arranger's drums, but he is physically located in a different area to the keyboards, horn players, bass players etc.. This makes it easy to hear him and 'lock' to his tempi. So making sure the guitarist can hear the drums front and center is very important, the more so the louder he plays.

But... typically, a drum track is mixed in with the keyboard parts, so he never gets this separation. And add to that, in all honesty, most arranger players I have heard, live or recorded, tend to place THEIR sounds somewhat louder than they would be if mixed by someone more detached from the playing..! Now feed THIS to the poor guitarist, and now most of what he hears is YOU, not the 'drummer'. So he may often struggle with being able to hear the drums well enough to lock to, especially if you are willing to concede that perhaps YOUR playing isn't exactly locked tight to the groove either.

Recording yourself live as a soloist, and being brutally critical of rhythm/lead balances and 'groove' is the first step to helping your poor guitarist out, and getting used to hearing YOUR parts buried in the mix (at the correct level) rather than loud and proud goes a long way. But if your arranger has separate outs that you can split the drum Parts off to, this is perhaps the ideal situation, as then the guitarist (and anyone else you play with) can now dial up the drums in their monitor without having your keyboard parts drown them out. If you don't have separate outs, but run your PA in mono, you can try panning the drums to one side and all keyboard parts to the other.

Bottom line is constant self-recording, both before you add the guitarist, and afterwards. Adjusting your keyboard part levels down to where they need to be (after all, with a guitarist, you are now HALF the rhythm section, not all of it!), and then getting used to hearing yourself less well than you perhaps currently do in the mix will quickly get things settled down and comfortable for you BOTH.

Really great advice Diki. Thanks!

I think you'll just need to try it out. I sometimes play with a guitar player/singer. Some songs seem to go better with just bass and drums while other songs various other parts will work out good. A few styles I use all the background parts and we like what we hear.

Wild Thing" by the Troggs

My advice? Don't. Unless somehow you get more than twice the money. It's more work for you. You have to make considerable changes in the way you do things. You have to split the tips. And the girls.
DonM

Don, everything you're saying is true! If I felt like I had the vocal, KB, and entertaiment skills to keep a crowd engaged several hours I wouldn't have to worry about finding other players to work with.