Hi Diki

All factory sounds are produced by the Hypersonic VSTi, Legacy sounds from earlier instruments have just been converted into Hypersonic format, and all the new sounds have been programmed by Wersi. (So it is 100% Hypersonic with the exception of the OX7 drawbars which is a plug in board from Blue Chip)

OAS 7 instruments also have the ability to import Akai and STS format sounds, however when loaded these are converted into Hypersonic format to allow them to sound. (As they were not generated by the Hypersonic sound engine the editing features are more limited with these sounds)

Note: The Pegasus Wing does not have the capability to load Akai or STS sounds, or have the OX7 drawbar module.

Hypersonic is swings and roundabouts, there are some that think it is the best thing since sliced bread, whereas others like yourself are not impressed, I have no problems with-it apart from the fact that as most of the sounds were programmed by German engineers, the standard setup does tend to sound very Germanic.

Hope this clears up the confusion

Bill

No worries Diki...I think I may have misinterpreted your outlook on it...

FWIW I agree that using vst instruments is a "one patch" deal when using styles...the examples you give re drums and bass are true. As they need to be loaded this does cause a stoppage and no PC, Mac or Windows, is anywhere near quick enough, or can "background load" or pre-load if you like, the next patch to use.

This is a fatal flaw if one wants to use more than one patch in a style, or even a standard midi for that matter - with a vst you DO need to allow time.

There is a workaround in a DAW where you can have say two parts assigned to the different kits using two midi channels. One channel for a brush kit and one for the standard kit (to stick with the drum example) and use these instead of trying to change patches. Then in the style you simply reassign the notes from say part C, to that second channel...so in effect nothing changes except the channel number, instant and seamless.

Now of course this does take time to set up, but once setup this can be used over and over again for different styles and songs. In Sonar you can save each as a project file, and even load up a special playlist with all the project setups pre-loaded, 128 at a time. These can be remotely selected.

In the Kronos example I gave, it is a doddle because vArranger recognises the Sonar instrument definition system, (or xxxx.ins) so all one needs is an accurate .ins file for the patch base on the Kronos, edit the style to reflect those msb/lsb and patch data and away you go. Play the style, it sends the correct patch info to the Kronos, pretty straightforward really. It is all only midi after all!! As long as the correct data is in the style, it can use any sound hardware.

Now THAT is the area that is the most tricky as there are very few editors out there for styles. So editing the style to embed that data can be awkward. If this is not done then software such as Dans must do a conversion of the data in real time and THAT is a difficult task, so I agree there.

Essentially using a vst is the same process...get an accurate .ins file for the vst patches (most only follow standard midi anyway - ie 128 patches in bank 0, and no upper banks). In a lot of cases a GM ins file will work as you only need address number slots, not a name. Just edit the GM ins to reflect the names of the patches in the vst assigned to the patch numbers 1-128.

I never said it was quick to do, but 90% of the work is all in the one-time setup of all this data, but it is easy if you have a decent knowledge of DAW systems and midi. As you may recall in one of my posts, I DID say I thought it was all just a bit too awkward for any real-time live performing. And it is for this reason ONLY I went back to hardware. Plus a few other operational tools on the PA series that I find invaluable..I would not have dropped the vArranger system to go back to a Yamaha, Ketron or sorry, Roland arranger...only the Korg and ONLY the PA3

I also wrote , and you must have missed this too.....that I don't think software based arranger systems will replace hardware based ones any time soon. So I was always agreeing with you...I was just presenting the case it was all 100% possible...and that using a VSTi in vArranger was not all that difficult a task given that vArranger is ALL midi based.

Most Sample Based VSTi allow you to pre-load voices (Including drum kits) into a Multi, (Usually a bank of 128) therefore it is quite possible to switch between voices with no delay whatsoever, (This is true for styles and Midi files and not just voices) unfortunately there are a few were you can’t, so for these you will need to load 2 or more instances of the program into your VST Host (Having a different voice in each instance) and switch between the different program instances. (There will then be no delay when changing voices mid song)

Hope this helps

Bill

LOL, thanks Bill...pretty much what I wrote...

mmm... interesting discussion.

About markers :
Diki, when you change the midifile position and go to one marker, program changes, volume, expression... and every thing are OK
I had to work hard for that, but now every thing is perfect.
The markers are displayed on the screen, with their name, So if you select for example VERSE while midifile is playing, it will wait for the end of the bar, and will go to the verse position. You don't hear any glitches, everything is perfect and on time !
vArranger can display 15 markers on screen, and use the arrangers variations buttons to navigate through the markers, but you can have more and assign 2 buttons to next marker / prev marker.

About VSTi :
From the begging with vArranger, I wanted to separate the style engine and the sound engine.
Diki is right, it's not easy to accommodate all styles from different manufacturer with all sound modules. But this is MY problem, not the user problem.
I am every time working to improve the sound quality in each versions, and vArranger users don't have to bother about anything. Just load styles and play.
Now, tons of musicians are asking me about having a 100% software solution. I understand that it is cool. It's for me a bonus for vArranger to be able to switch from external hardware modules to internal well know soundset. I am working on it with some humility. I still don't think that in a near future I will gig with a VSTi based vArranger. I don't think that I will do better than Yamaha Roland Ketron and Korg who have some millions dollars to spend on R&D.
But for sure I have something to bring to the arranger music world.

As midem said, I have not set my goal to win the war against hardware arrangers, that I still use and love, but to add another working solution into the musician pocket.

Just purchased the vArranger and enjoying it.

And guess what? I don`t own a sound module

Yes, I am playing it through a softsynth viz. the Yamaha SYXG50 softsynth on my MIDI OUT. This has the XG soundset and the PSR styles do sound good when you consider its a soundset which is more than a decade old !!!

I`m sure the output from the vArranger would sound at its best, if played through a more recent sound module like a SD2 or SD-50 or even a Bk-7m.

The vArranger is an awesome piece of arranger gear. Its almost Apple-like in its clear and simple user interface. The vArranger being able to play Roland styles is good leap forward!!

And of course, with Dan`s great support which I experienced first hand today, its definitely a very good investment to go along with your other hardware arrangers.


Merci Beacoup Dan !! Keep up the good work

HiDennis,
is that Rob's project? I stopped keeping tabs on it quite a while back.

Hi Diki,
I have soundsets for Ketron & Yamaha. Admitedly they're only soundfonts, but I probably could get them to work reasonably well.

I don't think Dan is under any grand illusion that he's going to replace yamaha, roland & ketron keyboards with VArranger.
I tend to think is aim is to create something affordable for the average user. Someone for can't afford or doesn't want to spend the money on basically having to buy 3 seperate keyboards.

I came across VArranger when basically all it did was play Ketron styles. That was amazing in itself. I sold my SD1+ a couple or so years ago, & I thought it would be great to have access to my Ketron Styles again. As good as the SD1+ it's not, but that probably has more to do with the SD2 sound module I'm using rather than Dan's VArranger. One can't expect a cheap sound module to have the same quality of sound that a $5K arranger had, but I have access to Ketron styles again.
Short while later VArranger also played Yammie styles. For me not the be all and end all as I already own a Yammi PSR 1500 Keyboard plus I'd been a One Man Band software arranger user ( which also plays Yammie styles) for a number of years. Still great for users who don't have a Yammie product.

As I mentioned in my post, woke up a few days ago, and wow, I also now have access to my old Roland styles. Haven't owned a Roland keyboard since my VA7 back in about 2002, not likely to either.

So, have started out with a sofware arranger that played Ketron styles, it also now plays Yammie & Roland styles & hasn't cost me a cent extra from my initial investment. Dan does his upgrades for nothing, which to me & the rest of the VArranger community is pretty amazing.

BTW Happy Birthday Dan, (better late than never0 haahaa

Yes that was the one Rikki...

Hi Dennis,
sorry to hear that, you guys had put so much effort into it.

BTW, did you get those "missing PA800 styles" I sent you, or at least I hope that I sent to YOU. haahaa