I second that...

Was wondering if such a combination used in midi OUT could produce a TOTL combination that plays all the styles and sound just like the arrangers do !!


a) MP-10 Pro to playback Korg Styles ~ 2000 USD
b) BK-7m to playback the Roland Styles ~ 1000 USD
c) XS Rack(Xf rack when its available) ~ 1000 USD
d) And the SD-2/SD4 to playback the .pat files ~ 600 USD

A new thread about software arrangers here

Bill

Hi ,
WELL, talk about DUMB, just realized I was trying to play them thru the Ketron mapping instead of GM/GS.
They certainly sound better thru the correct setting.
[quote=rikkisbears]Well,
I tried my gm/gs soundfonts for the Roland styles. My soundfonts suck. I've got Freebie Banks as well as banks I paid reasonably good money for.
I think I was looking back on them with Rose Colored Glasses.

Yes !
On vArranger options, you can select your target sound module.
The default value is Ketron SD2.
But you can select GM or GM2 or GS or XG.
Every mode own specific adaptations.
I usually select GM2 for most sound modules, and this sounds great.
Use XG for Yamaha sound modules.

So the SD2 will play the legacy Ketron styles with 'Live Drums' from the SD1, right? But it can't do the current Audya styles, right?

Bit of a bummer, IMO.

I'd be interested to hear a modern BK-7m style, or even a G70 style played through the SD2. Be interesting to A/B them, original and SD2 version.

Now Dan... you've got GM or GM2 or GS or XG maps done, yes? All I'm talking about is maps for MotifXS/F, Korg Kronos, M3 etc.. Nowhere NEAR the amount of work putting an entire VSTi together to cover this stuff.

Mind you, you've got two problems. First is, I don't think ANY major manufacturer has made styles that ONLY use the GM or GM2 or GS or XG soundsets for years. All the arrangers have moved WELL beyond those decade old (or more!) standards. So, anything but old styles are going to be calling up sounds or drumkits that just don't exist.

And the Ketron styles are going to remain SD1 and older, as I seriously doubt Ketron are going to let you sample their Audya loops and drum-slices, to put into a 3rd party VSTi.

We had this debate years ago with Dom. He was full of promises that each arranger's sounds were going to get sampled, and you would have a VSTi that replicated things like Tyros, PA2 etc.. Then reality set in. First off, it's a herculean task to do this, and secondly, the minute you do it, you are going to get your butt sued off by Yamaha, Korg, etc.! Nothing ever came of it, it was just empty promises.

The thing about going to things like the Kronos, or MotifXS/F for the next set of maps is, for starters, their soundsets, and drumkit selection is HUGE. It is going to be unlikely you can't find a sound from a MODERN arranger in there. Plus, voice editing is a breeze, so anything that isn't QUITE right can be edited to BE right. And you can create your own user drumkits from the magnificent set of built in drum sounds. So any modern arranger's kit setups can probably be replicated quite well.

You see... old GS/XG kits were basically, one sample per note. Modern arrangers ALL have multi-velocity kits. And legacy styles don't always hit the velocity points right. There was no difference between a low velocity, high track volume drum sound, and the same sound at high velocity, but with the track volume turned down. Things have changed. And for the better! But GM or GM2 or GS or XG kits don't get any of this.

You see, THIS is why I would like to see vArranger move away from those old legacy modules and soundfonts. If you want to compete with even modern arrangers, these things are going to have to be addressed. And modern WS's are the only tool flexible enough to be able to address them.

So... instead of vArranger selecting GM or GM2 or GS or XG target modes, why not Motif, or Kronos, or Jupiter80, etc.? After all, it's just lookup tables. Trust me, you make this product work with modern WS's, and you will have a line as long as you can dream, knocking at your door. What WS owner WOULDN'T like something that can turn it into a great sounding arranger too?

Integrate the Karma stuff, and you have something no-one has even HEARD yet. The future awaits. This product is too good to waste on replicating decades old styles.

Hi Diki,

Send me a Roland style that you love, and I will record a mp3 demo of this style played with vArranger+SD2 for you.

A listen is better than long words.

If you own a motif or other workstations, most of the styles will work OK with vArranger.

Thanks.

Let me record something on the same style (I'll just let the ACC play, no RH stuff) and then we can A/B them here.

I guess the thing I'm trying to say is, if you do the work FOR THEM, the WS boys will beat a path to your door. But if you simply send the GM/GS/XG PC#'s to the WS, well, most of them, the GS/XG bank is NOT the best sounds and kits by a LONG shot.

As always, an arranger is about instant gratification, and little hard work. If you do the grunt work, and optimize vArranger so it plays the BEST sounds in the WS, it will blow them away. But if it only addresses the naff GS/XG soundbank, probably not so much...

Hi Diki.

I understand you point. Of course things will be even better in the future releases of vArranger for workstation users if there is a need for that.

What can be dne today with vArranger is :

Most of the settings are available directly on screen, so it's very easy to change something.

For example, look at this screen. You can change everything, and save your style. This thing is so hard to do or impossible with hardware arrangers, that you never do it.



Also, in regards of the sounds selection, most of the styles follow the GM rules, and are sounding good.

If the user want to use another sound from his workstation, he can select it from the INS screen.

vArranger can import the cakewalk instrument definition INS files

Hi Dan,
thanx for the info on the ins file.

Even though I've had VArranger for quite a while now, I've never really used it as an Arranger. I really only bought it so that I could create midifiles from the styles & convert them to Korg. Total under utilization.

Anyway, since you've introduced the Roland function, I've been spending a bit more time on Varranger and I'm starting to wonder why I'm bothering converting, when I've got a perfectly good style player in front of me. Quicker to tweak some sounds to suit, rather than convert the style.

Anyway, I may have this wrong, so please tell me if I do.

OK, as I see it, SD2/SD4 is probably the most suitable module if one wants to play Ketron styles, because Roland, Yamaha etc won't play the Live Drums, wheras Sd2 can do a reasonably good job of playing Roland styles, but would have some problems with the XG Mapped drum kits in Yamaha styles?
It would be great if one could have an all round module, sd2 possibly could be perfect.

I've spoken to you before, a long time ago about a style creator/editor, when Ketron was the only style format VArranger played .
After you introduced Yamaha format, it was no longer as important as there's already creator/editing software available for yammies, so if someone wanted to create a style for VArranger , it could be done in Yamaha format.

Having said that though, have you ever considered including just a drum editor ie basically the ability to maybe change velocities & remap the drum notes. If one was able to remap, sd2 could probably play XG mapped drums back reasonably well.
(I used to have to remap my psr conversions to suit korg mapping. )

Also didn't realize I could mix n match soundsources ie use korg for instruments, sd2 for drums, even a 3rd module for bass etc.

Actually had a mix of soundfonts & soundmodule , & Korg running as well.
VArranger runs quite well with my software sampler & virtual midi cable.

Again, what could be handy for owners that may not own a ketron soundsource, would be maybe to have the abilty to load live Drum kits as a soundfont .
My software sampler cost me round about $75 which is a lot of money to spend if all one would need it for is to load a drum kit. My Korg sounds great for all the other style tracks, but I'd still need something to play the Live Drums..

Rikki, the system I was planning on using was Cantabile as the VST instrument "rack" and then tx the midi data from vA to it...

The plan was to set up various kits in the drum VST saved to it's patch banks (most VSTi's do rx program changes to select different patch slots) the same for the Bass VST and Guitar VST's...then simply assign a rx channel on each of the "racks" to the corresponding tx channel of the style in vA...all using software midi routing....

So in effect, apart from one midi cable in the rest is handled by the PC/Laptop...

Dennis