For a OMB to really “compete” against a live band, the OMB has to be exceptionally good. For example let’s say you have an above average (but not great) OMB and an average live band alternating sets. Chances are the audience will respond better to the band. This will be especially be true if all the members of the mediocre band are good entertainers. The band of course has the advantage of number of guys/gals on stage. In other words it’s more visually appealing.

What if at that German festival that you went to had a OMB that was as bad as the live band that you described? I’m pretty sure the OMB would not have gotten the enthusiastic reaction that the lousy band did.

I think my friends here with Bose systems are not really thinking about the volume levels a REAL band would put out, yet alone a LOUD real band!

You want the same visceral thump that a real drummer and a band put out, when even that is amplified by a REAL live band amplification system, there really isn't any substitute for the real thing.

Lately, I have been pretty impressed with the new QSC self powered systems, when paired with a beefy powered sub or two. A couple of raucous rowdy nightclubs with traveling bands playing live have got these as house systems, and I can tell you! Ear-splittingly loud, but still clean as a whistle and with plenty of presence. Highly recommended

I hear ya Diki and of course I see your point. But we are trying to make an arranger SOUND like a live band, and we don't have a live drummer and bass player, although we're gettin' closer.

I have done a huge Mardi Gras party for our church (Catholic) the past 8 or 9 years. Last year there were nearly 400 people there. I generally use two Bose L1s, although I have done it with one L1, and also with two Compacts. The two L1s did a great job; the two Compacts just adequate and were maxed out, but still good sound. When I used a Tyros to do it, I ran the drums out to two channels in the mixer and e.q.d them in order to get them to sound decent. This was not necessary on Roland or Audya. (I tried it and the difference wasn't worth the trouble).
Anyway, this year a new person was in charge and made a change and hired a "whole band". They had a truck load of gear. (Turns out her brother was the singer). I didn't go, but people are still complaining that it was painful on the dance floor and you couldn't hear anything but a roar in the back. Point is that it takes more than bodies to make a good sound, regardless if it's an arranger or individual instruments. They have already booked me for next year's party, in February.
I think we are all on the same page, but if you are going to do something BIG, you still need to do it RIGHT. I guess my point is that the audience, at least this audience, wants to be able to feel the beat on the dance floor, but still hear things clearly, even at the tables in the back.
I'm still not convinced the effort to use individual sound sources and individual amps and speakers for those sources would make people think there is a "real" band unless perhaps they were not watching, only listening.
In my opinion the number one advantage of having more than one band member is the interplay between members, not only musically but with regard to showmanship. BIG disadvantage is that the money must be divided among the band members. I only have to divide it with my wife!
DonM

I hear ya', Don!

And, once you get into large room volumes, the stage sound from the band is still only a small fraction of what the audience hears, so separate amps for the drums, bass, etc. is only really going to improve things for those on stage or REAL close to it. Seems like an awful lot of gear for something so few would appreciate (or even want!).

Mind you, if, as there have been a few posts about recently, there are some REAL players playing in with the arranger, a bass player, a frisky guitarist, even a drummer locking to the click (or just playing with your LH bass), having those Parts split out and sent to rigs on stage can go a LONG way towards making them feel comfortable on stage, and them not have to make major adjustments to their playing techniques. I have on occasion used a bass rig for my LH, but I prefer not to if I can help it!

I have noticed, though, that if you DO split out those bass heavy parts, your need for YOUR on stage monitoring goes down radically. Other than the bass and drums, 99% of what the 'keyboard player' plays has little low end, and tiny little monitors suffice really well..!

I read what everyone wrote here and......thanks for the input....you gave me a lot to think about that I hadn't previously considered.

I guess I should have said, though, that the sound system thoughts were for doing jobs with lots of stage area, lots of time to set up, and (hopefully) lots of money to be made...shows, Festivals, demonstrations, summer fairs, DisneyWorld type locations, etc.

I've been thinking for a while now about this as I'm watching ordinary gigs becoming almost non-existent overnight and I'm thinking it's time to reinvent myself.

It's in the planning stages now (stage shows), but, to be honest, it's been in the planning stages for a few years now. Still, I'd love to hear (before I get too old to be carrying equipment around) what can be done sonic-wise with the new big three TOTL arrangers, and maybe that will "jump-start" me into doing something with my ideas.

You hear a lot of good demos with a lot of fancy players playing a lot of fancy music but you don't hear examples of what these keyboards sound like through gargantuan sound systems. Personally, I'd like to run my PA3x through Deep Purple's setup and hear what it can sound like at it's best.

As for the separate "outs," I wanted to "out" each note of the percussion instruments into a separate channel on maybe a 16 channel mixer and EQ each of them......particularly to clean up the bass, snare, cymbals, and cowbells....I have a fetish for cowbells. But I'm not even sure you can separate the sounds on the percussion track. I never really looked into it.

I think also, that if you're looking to sound like a band, in addition to good "punch" in your sound, you also need to make up a lot of drum patterns and a lot of "fills" for each genre so that it doesn't get monotonous to the listener and keep switching between them in your song maybe every 2-4 measures. The one thing I notice the most on OMB players is they tend to leave the same style running and use very little "fills." I watch drummers play now, and I see how you don't realize how much the drummer is doing in the background to fill out a song by complementing the lead player/vocalist. Good arranger playing requires that kind of versatility, though you could easily wear down your fingertips by pressing tabs and going through style variations and fills a few hundred times per song!

Also the bass. I used to think a bass is a bass is a bass. As I listen now, I realize that the bass player is the one who defines the song and makes it come alive. How could you play Motown without a great bass line? Another "must do" to sound like a band!

Unfortunately now, I'm more of a player than a technician. I wish I had as much tech knowledge as you guys have. There's no room for just a "player," you also have to have a good knowledge of the proper reproduction of your "playing."

As I think about all the info on this thread, I'm reminded of what Frank at AudioWorks said to me when I bought my PA3x. "There is so much you can do with this board, that you have to keep remembering to ask yourself is what you're working on presently (with the keyboard) going to be worth the end result....i.e. is the "end" worth the "means?" Will anyone really notice or care these "non-listener" days that you EQ'd the drums for max sound quality? Or you panned each instrument? Or you programmed just the right amount of vibrato at a 2 second delay into your violin patch? I don't think so.

But...at the end of the day. I'd still love to just hear someone playing a TOTL arranger on maybe even Springsteen's setup. I certainly could use the motivation.

Mark

Sparky......Yes, I called them today. Yes, they DO have one. And some nice EV's to run it through. I'm surprised, I thought the only PA3x SA demo'd was in NY. With that in mind, maybe we can set up a date to meet there and trade some ideas?

Mark

Now Mark, this is where the Audya really, but really shines. I know, hard to believe or appreciate unless one has his very own to experiment with. This is one of the immediate outstanding features of my Audy for me, that stunning, super intelligent drummer. Whether I use many fills or not (and I really use many - always), he does his own thing in the background over and above. You have to hear it & play with it yourself to really beieve it.

Regards,
Henni

Henni,

I'm with you on that one. I first played a Ketron SD3 about 5 years ago when I didn't even know what they were all about. I was on that thing for about 3 hours and enjoying every minute of it.

Ever since I wanted to buy one. But I got sidetracked along the way, and that brings me up to today when I'm facing the Tyros, the PA3x, and a Ketron keyboard.

When I purchased my PA3x, truthfully speaking, I really wanted an Audya (and I needed 76 keys). But for my use, I thought the Korg was better for my needs as I want to do editing and I think the Korg excels in that.

Then there were the stories I heard about Ketron support here in the USA. I realize AJ can only do so much tech support, but Korg has service centers all over (I hope!).

In the end, I figure if things work out for me with this PA3x, then I will buy an Audya for a backup keyboard.

You're one of the lucky Ketron owners.......good luck with it!

Mark

Mark,

I truly believe that most Audya issues are software related. I even stuffed up mine by loading the wrong stuff onto it & now I also experience strange things.

However, the restoration DVD's are on their way to me. Every Audya owner should have a set of these. The Audya allows access to it's operating system and you know what happens to even Windows when you mess up over there.

But, these lock ups are way over emphasized. A simple reboot takes less than a minute and solves all. I know that with the latest operating systems, these do not occur anymore and also I did not experience same before I started messing around.

I follow all demos, forums discussions, downloads and every bit of news on all arrangers. The Audya is unlike anything else. I can never be satisfied with less. I'm like a spoiled brat now, I have it all!!

But I know, all this talk from me is hard to believe. I'm no arranger novice. I've modified and tweaked and uploaded my share of styles for the Yamaha community.

In the Audya I have the best of all. I crave for nothing else at the moment. I'm discovering new stuff as I go along and it does not sieze to amaze me.

Maybe the kind of styles are to my personal liking & maybe the Audya is not everyone's cup of tea. But it fills our requirements perfectly and we are really elated.

And then, did I mention that super intelligent drummer that now works for me...Did I mention those stunning bass riffs that my bass player so freely provides. And those live guitar players...Really, it's hard for me to stop.

And soon I'll put my money to where my mouth is and post some stuff here for all to listen & see what all this hype is about.

My friend, whom I bought my Audya from, says he's never seen anyone pressing so many buttons when playing an arranger. I use intro's and endings as fills. In this way the Audya is perfect for me. It can do same and the huge variety of fills makes it sound even more live.

On top of this, my drummer does his own thing. It's amazing to say the least! It truly cannot be compared with anything else currently available out there as far as arrangers go.

Keep well my friend,
Henni

I agree that for what you want to do, the Audya would be ideal. Nothing else sounds as LIVE. I have PA3X now and I am very happy with it, but the Audya seems to be designed and built for what you want to do. It has facility for multiple outputs, so you could route things the way you want. The drummer and bass player seem to read your mind and add tasteful fills and riffs seamlessly.
I had zero problems with my Audya, and I played in nearly every night for over two years.
DonM