Hi Diki.
It just works differently on the Pa3X than the Roland.

Regards
James

I don't think anyone here understands Diki...as i know of none of these machines can do
true Divisi, forget about programming PA3X or whatever. He is talking about true Divisi,
i experience that problem everyday with Strings especially. You have a 20 piece Strings
Orchestra and you play 1 Note and you get 20 Players...what happens when you actually
hit a Chord with 3-4 Notes? It goes up to 80 Violin players...some of the new Kontakt
Libraries are already Scripted for that but i highly Doubt Kronos or PA3X can do that.
I understand both engines very good, PA3X can achieve veru little of it with a LOT of
programming while Kronos no matter how many OSCs in Combi there is no way to do that.
I don't think there is anyways of programming the PA3X to do this...even if it is possible
it would be a task bigger then actually creating a whole new Style from Scratch.
If something is Programmable it doesn't mean that the synth HAS IT...i can do many things
with Kronos that even the engineers that made it wont know about but that will take me days
of thinking and programming...which also falls down to, no it cant do it.

Hi Nedim.
I will send you a pcg file for your Kronos at some point over the weekend so you can see how it works. I think you will find it very interesting as nobody really makes sounds using his method even though it's so interesting.

I suspect this will make a great programming thread on KF for the Kronos users too. Maybe even the pa3x users.

Regards
James.

Here you go.
Played from a single COMBI on the KRONOS.

Mp3 file, KRONOS PCG file. No buttons are being pressed to activate anything. This is all done live by just playing the keys.

0 to 5 seconds
4 Brass sounds playing the exact same notes.

5 to 22 seconds
Strings play different notes from the 4 brass sounds.

22 to 37 second.
I play a chord, the 4 brass sounds spread out and don't play the same notes. Then towards the end while holding a chord, one single brass sound plays different notes while everything else is holding.

37 to 41 seconds
The lower notes of a single chord are playing using different sounds than the melody I'm playing on the upper notes with the same hand.

41 to 47 seconds
Single notes are played and the brass sounds are back together. No strings.

48 to 51 seconds.
A chord is played upwards. When the first note is played, all 4 brass sounds play this note. When the second note is played, two brass sounds play only the first note, and 2 play the second note. When the third note is played, sounds one and two play the first note, sound 3 plays the second and thrid note, sound 4 only plays the last note.

51 to 56.
Now all the notes sound in reverse to what happened in 48 to 51 above.

56 to end, strings play a chord separate to everything, and all 4 brass sounds are back again playing the same notes.

This is just one simple example. I don't want to overcomplicate this by using DNC and a Pa3X.

Regards
James

After hearing the posted examples, although they are rather nicely done, until I hear an example as suggested by Diki, I will agree with Nedim's quote above (the italics are mine).

If someone with a PA3 can post an example of what Diki asked in an earlier post, which is,

" Six separate sounds. Six notes. Play them ANYWHERE on the keyboard. Not over the C4 boundary (or anywhere else). Not at a specific velocity. ANYWHERE. ANY STRENGTH.

The bottom note will be a bari. The NEXT note up (anywhere) will be a 'bone. The NEXT note higher will be a tenor. The NEXT note higher will be an alto. The NEXT note higher will be an trumpet. and the TOP note will also be a trumpet. Regardless of WHERE you play them, regardless of how HARD you play them..."


Only then will we be hearing true "Divisi".

Ian

Hi Ian.
It works only as I've explained and demonstrated on a KORG.

Regards
James

Thanks James...it is quite different than how it is done on the Roland ARX card, but useful, nonetheless.

Ian

Yeah. Funny enough though it's not exactly something I'd ever use much on a workstation.

When it comes to workstations, the main point is to really sequence everything yourself.

Talking about sequencing... for anyone interested, here's two tracks I sequenced. One is by Enya and the other is the theme tune to the movie twister.

Watermark

Twister

Regards
James

Thanks for all the effort James, I am sorry that what I have posted has been so misconstrued, I have the utmost respect for you as a programmer.

Unfortunately, the MP3 example you posted is kind of hard to really distinguish the sounds, as you already used section brass sounds in the first place. It would be fascinating to hear how this works if you replace the section brass with SOLO instruments.

You see, in small section work (think Chicago, or EWF, TOP, that sort of thing) you are really talking about 3 or 4 SOLO parts, sometimes playing in unison (or octaves), sometimes spreading out for block chording, sometimes two or three holding, while one solos, that sort of thing. When all playing the same note, yes, you get a section. But the minute they divisi, you are really listening to four solo sounds. I would be fascinated (and a lot more enlightened) if perhaps you could run the same PCG but with bari, bone, alto and tpt solo sounds, and we might get a clearer indication of what is happening.

I understand your preference for sequencing all this, and in a sequenced environment, this is ideal. But we are ARRANGER players. We are looking for things that we can do LIVE, without prearranging it. And a horn section that automatically splits out to the solo parts when you chord is EXACTLY what you need for doing live horn parts in R&B and jazz, etc. Admittedly, not so much for Enya (but again, synth sounds opens many possibilities) but acoustic music revolves around divisi.

By the way, I am not touting the ARX board as the be all and end all. It is a good start, but needs more complex rules than simply additional voices from the bottom up as you add more notes. I would also like to see modes where, until you reach the section's true size, if you only play two note, they split down the middle (or bracket), if you play three, they go to 2 voices (if a six man section) etc., think basic rules govened by the size of your ensemble. I would like to see hold parameters, so if you play three notes and hold pedal them, the remaining voices either solo up or unison up and don't divisi. I'd like to see modes that automatically drop octaves of each of the parts as they climb outside their range.

The surface has only been scratched with what divisi and alternative note (or oscillator) assignments can do for us musically. And the beauty of it all is, it is simply code. To be honest, it isn't really very much more processor taxing than arranger 'Melody Intelligence' block chording tricks they already do. All it takes is for some of us to see the potential. After all, that's what got us Melody Intelligence in the first place.

Fair point, I should have use sounds that were completely different altogether from each other just to make it way easier to hear.



There are limits to how it works on a KORG from the Roland. For example, I cannot play one note and hear only one sound. I will hear them all, and only when I play a chord will I hear them spread out independent of each other.

So it's certainly backwards to the Roland. Or maybe the Roland is backward ???.. depends on your view I guess.

I kind of prefer hearing all the notes up front and only when I play a chord have them spread out. Seems more natural to me for it to work that way.



Live, it works exactly as I explained and no other way on a KORG.

Sequenced, anything is impossible.



Either way I'd like to see a KORG with the option to do it both ways.
Regards
James