I wasn't comparing it to the Audya I was simply answering the question I quoted with the only information I had. If you want to compare the PSR to a Ketron it would need to be an SD5.

TBH, the Ketron audio feature doesn't even work that well with it's FAR better HD and RAM sizes and pipelines than the PSR.

I think, until a manufacturer leverages SSD's and faster RAM pipelines, the advantages of audio will always be outweighed by the disadvantages.

Arranger players always have been ADHD players! We want EVERYTHING, and we need it NOW! We never know what we want to play next, and half the time, we need to medley into it. Most modern MIDI drum based arrangers are capable of this. But audio loop RAM based ones struggle. Ketron cannot stream fast enough to offer full chord options on the pitched Parts, and apparently, the PSR can't load anything in at all without a reboot.

Do these guys even know who their customers are?!

Care to eloborate..? To be fair, the issues that you might have picked up is supposed to be solved in the AJAMSONIC upgrade. Have you played around with that a bit as yet? Over and above this, OS5.0 is due soon. It will bring with it another wealth of improvements.

Would you care to attach something over here to demonstrate?

And lastly, I doubt if anything exists as yet that's perfect, be it an arranger, any other item or mortal being. Ketron ventured full on four years ago where Yamaha still fears to tread, even to this day. Give them a little credit at least - they deserve it!

And very, very lastly (see, I'm also not perfect)... :-) ... we all know the more perfect you make music, the more "cold" and machine like it becomes. Warm music is not supposed to be "perfect" at all. Did you not notice the various style creators trying to capture this effect into their latest creations and the improvements it brings with the newer styles?

The Audya is as close as it comes at this stage to mimicking true human performance and is does a SUPERB job at doing just that.

You should really get your hands onto one for a weekend or so...

Henni

Henni, don't even go there, Dikki is just trolling with you

Ian and I had a very enjoyable, epic thread regarding Audya's handling of complex chords a couple of years ago and amazingly we even managed to get him to record some examples on Yamaha for a head to head. Ians examples were sadly removed but I kept them on my computer.

As an Audya owner you need no convincing as you have the proof at your finger tips and can see the results in your audience. Diki on the other hand will never be convinced otherwise.

Be far better not to turn a perfectly good Yamaha thread into another synthzone his v's mine shoot out.

As for Yamaha's live drums sequences, I have not heard them yet - but well done for giving it a go - using ROM is a baby step forward similar to Ketron did with the SD5 and allows them to dip their toes in without committing to a full on technology change. The company I want to see having a go is Korg. I have always liked their keyboards.

I agree totally,

I remember all the negative hype about the Audya four years ago, & I can vaguely remember much came from Diki also. I just want to rectify those loose shots as they are being fired.

But you're right, back to topic which is "Yamaha". If all refrain from unjustified loose comments aimed towards the Audya, I'll refrain from hijacking.

Keep well all,

Henni

Hi Diki,
I used the odd audio loop in my PA800. Basically tried to use them in a similar fashion to what my SD1 did. Had some great brush swish loops
( midi swishes just didn't sound quite as good) so I used the swishes on the percussion track, and I used midi drums for the rest of the drums required in the pattern. Ram was limited on PA800 also.
One good thing, loops can be sliced in the korg and made into a drumkit. Could get some intersting variations in the pattern by editing the midi note part of it.

Unless I missed it, don't Ketron's STILL only provide audio loops for Maj/Min/b7th?

I am sorry, but I remember the examples, and it was, at least to me, PAINFULLY obvious when you switched to a diminished chord, a suspended 4th or an augmented one. Sure, it's not QUITE as obvious with the simple extensions (although I could hear them) but those all MIDI chord types rarely matched the audio ones at all. Sorry, perhaps I am applying too high a standard to this, but a feature that goes backwards from where we are now (some of Korg's and Yamaha's MIDI guitar parts can sound pretty realistic, with no change in tone and sound when you move to chords more complex than maj/min/7th) is no improvement, IMHO.

My major problems with audio styles have not been addressed since the idea first came out. Incomplete chord types, and a lack of continuous NEW style production. Obviously, the cost and complexity of producing new audio styles makes them rare, and even rarer in the more local styles I would like to see. If you play music round the Mediterranean, you are decently provided. But much American music is still completely ignored (or with so few styles that variety is a problem on a gig). You can only play so many songs with the same style before it all gets bland.

And, on top of all that, you STILL after what, four years of production, do not have the computer tools to easily create your OWN audio styles for the Ketron (including pitched parts) from existing loop libraries, or easily edit the existing ones beyond the simplest things.

The Ketron, if you are content with what content it comes with, is an excellent arranger. But if your musical needs are not met by what it comes with, you are pretty much out of luck.

I am sorry that some think that pointing out drawbacks that actually exist is 'trolling'. Maybe if I was making this stuff up, you'd have a point. But unless some major revision of Ketron's OS, and a major revision to the ROM to include at least twice as many audio chords per style, and software tools to easily import and create your own all audio styles snuck by me, the reservations I had at launch still exist.

And, as I keep going on (and on!) about, much of what some tout as audio loops' advantages, the sonic authenticity of audio performances, is rapidly disappearing, as ROM sizes of included samples gets larger and larger. I honestly feel that MIDI drum loops, if played through a considerably better set of samples, if performed on MIDI drum kits by good drummers, and MIDI guitar performances, if played on SA2 quality MIDI guitar sample sets, and played by good guitarists, they rival audio loops with NONE of the drawbacks.

They are cheaper to produce, simpler to edit and transform, and make vastly less demands on the hardware than audio loops. Plus, you can take all your legacy styles, and run them into these new, larger sample sets, and lo and behold! All your OLD styles sound better now!

That's a win/win, in my book..!

All you need in a keyboard is to accept standard audio loops, all the editing can then be done using Melodyne and then loaded back into the keyboard. (All modern keyboards can have multiple Midi tracks per part, (Intro, fill, variation etc.) with the old 4 (Major, Min, 7th and min 7) track system being long gone, so manufactures can modify them to accept audio loops)

Obviously Hardware boards will require a jump in their storage capacity, but that’s not really a big problem to solve.

Bill

I'm afraid that the Audio Drum styles cannot be saved onto USB.

I was looking through a product guide about the 64mb Flash Expansion, and it said that you can "even play additional styles with audio drums" from the expansion slot or something to that effect.

In other words, the only styles with Audio Drums that you're going to get are going to come with Expansion Packs, and only one pack can be loaded on the keyboard at a time.

Perhaps this is a way for Yamaha to have a proprietary format with the new styles.

We will see.

Diki, your information is INCORRECT. This was settled on this forum back in July 2010 at length. The best you could come up with after 28 pages of discussion and conclusive proof that Audya handles complex chords was "to me the drums on the Audya sound 'shelly'.

For your benefit you can find the main thread here:
http://www.synthzone.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/285014/7

and an example of a tune using complex chords here:
http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum22/HTML/001396.html
or just listen to the song: example

I see no point in going through the whole thing again. After 28 pages on one thread there was no doubt in anyones mind that the assumptions both yourself and Ian had stated to be "fact" were in fact completely wrong.

So yes, I did think dragging up this old myth again is trolling. I apologize if its simply that you had forgotten.