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#351260 - 09/17/12 02:22 PM
Re: NEW Korg KROME
[Re: Dnj]
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Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14266
Loc: NW Florida
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Ridiculous? It sounds as if you come from the 61 note camp, right?
So, let's say that for some idiotic reason, all the manufacturers decide to cut it down to 57... you going to be happy? I doubt it. Especially if I posted that your gripes were 'ridiculous'.
One of the strengths of the old 76 layout is, firstly, they are plastic feel. Certainly my G70's action is weighted a bit more than most arranger keybeds, but it is nowhere near as heavy as a wooden touch 88. As you often have to play organ, synth and many light touch sounds, the facility of plastic outweighs the need for wood touch JUST for acoustic and Rhodes. A lot of the newer 73's ape the heavier touch of the Rhodes. Not optimal, IMO (and a change from 20+ years of accepted standard).
Secondly, the 76's that go down to the low E were perfect if you do a LOT of LH bass work (that's the lowest note of a 4 string bass). An 88's low A leaves you with at LEAST a third, and maybe a fifth of notes you are rarely ever going to play! TBH, I don't mind that some of the 73's go down to the C... five string basses are more common now, but in truth, I rarely ever WANT to go down below E... guess I'm just old school! But why, if you consider that you are gaining a few down below the 76's usual low limit, do they compound that by taking even MORE off the top?
I'm sorry, but weight, size and feel factor make 88's not optimal for arrangers. And 73's, while good if you want that retro Rhodes vibe (but they have to be fully weighted if you want to be pedantic about it), are unnecessarily limited. The 76 has been a staple of arranger and WS use for 30 years or more. Roland and Yamaha STILL make 76's. Only Korg, of the big 3, have decided to lop off a few notes (and they still start from E on the Kronos, so you aren't gaining the C at the bottom) for no apparent reason.
If 76's were that hard to fit in a studio, they never would have gained popularity. And try getting an 88 sideways in a car!
I'm sorry, but the only thing ridiculous I have seen on this thread is the thought that, if you don't want to lose three notes, you should GAIN 15 more, about an extra 30lbs, and too much width to fit in a car!
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!
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#351262 - 09/17/12 02:45 PM
Re: NEW Korg KROME
[Re: Fran Carango]
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Member
Registered: 09/17/10
Posts: 40
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Elwood,those three keys are critical...to folks that play left hand bass, and want it to sound correct...76 key models go down to "E", same as low E on a bass guitar.... That's where octave shifting comes in handy.My Reason Bass Refill software has a minimum requirement of 61 keys...so in certain situations in the studio,the number of keys can be very critical and if I were a prolific piano player(particularly in a live situation),I would not even fuss over anything less than 88 keys-period. The fact of the matter is,companies such as Korg,have to give equal consideration to studio musicians as well,because of how integral software is to their craft and in a lot of cases,space saving designs are a significant marketing demographic. As recent as 10 years ago,I would not have ever considered anything less than a 88-key workstation keyboard,but since I made the transition to software recording and as my studio expanded,I developed a preference for more compact sized keyboards. To my knowledge,there are no stand-alone midi controller keyboards in a 73 key size,so I am very pleased to see Korg make a 73 key midi controller/workstation.
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#351348 - 09/19/12 04:32 AM
Re: NEW Korg KROME
[Re: Dnj]
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Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14266
Loc: NW Florida
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Octave switching doesn't really address the problem...
But only if you are playing TWO parts at a time. Sure, you lay down the bass part on its own, heck, a 37 note keyboard would do! The problem starts when you want to play a bass line (or, TBH, any left hand sound)... to leave yourself a good useful range for the upper sound, AND a useful range for the bass sound (I usually like at LEAST 2 1/2 octaves of bass), you can't really be happy with an arbitrary loss of ANY notes at the top end.
Again, saying that, if you really want a larger keyboard size (or more accurately, you DON'T want a smaller keyboard size) an 88 is an acceptable solution doesn't address touch, weight and size.
I think you are coming from a STRICTLY studio perspective, and again TBH, if your studio is SO tight that a 76 rather than a 73 is going to make problems, you need a larger room! Or a better layout!
But the minute you start thinking of playing live, ANY loss of notes is a detriment. But saying, if 73 isn't enough, 88 wood is an acceptable alternative is not really looking at the issue.
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!
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#351517 - 09/21/12 09:08 PM
Re: NEW Korg KROME
[Re: Diki]
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Member
Registered: 09/17/10
Posts: 40
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Ridiculous? It sounds as if you come from the 61 note camp, right?
So, let's say that for some idiotic reason, all the manufacturers decide to cut it down to 57... you going to be happy? I doubt it. Especially if I posted that your gripes were 'ridiculous'.
One of the strengths of the old 76 layout is, firstly, they are plastic feel. Certainly my G70's action is weighted a bit more than most arranger keybeds, but it is nowhere near as heavy as a wooden touch 88. As you often have to play organ, synth and many light touch sounds, the facility of plastic outweighs the need for wood touch JUST for acoustic and Rhodes. A lot of the newer 73's ape the heavier touch of the Rhodes. Not optimal, IMO (and a change from 20+ years of accepted standard).
Secondly, the 76's that go down to the low E were perfect if you do a LOT of LH bass work (that's the lowest note of a 4 string bass). An 88's low A leaves you with at LEAST a third, and maybe a fifth of notes you are rarely ever going to play! TBH, I don't mind that some of the 73's go down to the C... five string basses are more common now, but in truth, I rarely ever WANT to go down below E... guess I'm just old school! But why, if you consider that you are gaining a few down below the 76's usual low limit, do they compound that by taking even MORE off the top?
I'm sorry, but weight, size and feel factor make 88's not optimal for arrangers. And 73's, while good if you want that retro Rhodes vibe (but they have to be fully weighted if you want to be pedantic about it), are unnecessarily limited. The 76 has been a staple of arranger and WS use for 30 years or more. Roland and Yamaha STILL make 76's. Only Korg, of the big 3, have decided to lop off a few notes (and they still start from E on the Kronos, so you aren't gaining the C at the bottom) for no apparent reason.
If 76's were that hard to fit in a studio, they never would have gained popularity. And try getting an 88 sideways in a car!
I'm sorry, but the only thing ridiculous I have seen on this thread is the thought that, if you don't want to lose three notes, you should GAIN 15 more, about an extra 30lbs, and too much width to fit in a car! Point well received,but if a 73-key size is as absurd as 57-keys would be,then why do you suppose Korg would even consider 73? Especially since one of the main purposes for the Krome is gigging? I'm not from the "61 note camp",as I've had 88 keys(Triton EX),but since I am not a concert pianist,I grew tired of the excessively heavy keys being a hindrance for certain performances,the expense of them and the impending space constraints(as they were),when my studio arsenal grew. You're right,76 keys are not that hard to fit in studios generally,as such is the case if you're Paul McCartney or Alan Parsons...but quite a few common folk who are limited by how much rent they can afford,are resigned to dealing with compact-sized studios. I live in N.J.,I retired at the age of 33,so my disability pay is thin,I have a 1 bedroom apartment and my bedroom doubles as a studio...so try to imagine squeezing two computer workstations,a dresser and a bed,in a 12' X 11' space. Every piece of gear that I chose for my studio,was purchased with compact sizes in mind. By the way,if 88 keys were so difficult to fit in cars,then they wouldn't be so popular,would they? Ok...so to be fair and realistic,you probably can't simply go out and trade your car in for a larger one to accommodate an 88-key keyboard....just like I can't shop around for another apartment(especially since my $1200 a month apartment,is subsidized and I'm only paying 30% of it). However though,if size isn't really much of a problem,I really can't fathom why the weight of the 88-key Krome would be an issue,since it's only 32lbs and since 76 keys are so critical to have and if it is equally critical for you to have a the Krome....the 88-keys are very reasonable priced,as far as workstations go. I've rearranged my bedroom so many times to consolidate my studio area,that I've lost count. That being said,I trim down my studio any way I can,so 88-keys is out of the question,I could probably manage with a 76-key,but 73 keys make things easier and anything I can do to avoid having to contend with the expense of buying a new computer desk,is a tremendous help. I guess my initial post was over the top & I apologize for that. Come to think of it,the posts that are truly ridiculous,are the ones plastered all over the official Korg forums and YouTube. Complaints such as that the Krome has no audio interface,not enough audio outputs,no hard drive,no sampling...blah-blah-blah.
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#351519 - 09/21/12 10:34 PM
Re: NEW Korg KROME
[Re: elwoodblues1969]
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Senior Member
Registered: 11/25/00
Posts: 1211
Loc: Queretaro, Mexico
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Do not forget that Roland also went funky on the number of keys on their Atelier Console Organs by Roland from their previous models to the current ones have the following: Upper: 56 keys (C3 to G7) with 10 levels Initial Touch Lower: 76 keys (E1 to G7) Waterfall type. Last year I went to Las Vegas to make a recording at Phil Maloofs home, and all those huge Theater pipe organs anywhere from 2 and up to 7 manuals of 61 Keys each plus the pedals. http://www.unclephilmaloof.com/Most electronic organs had 2-3 variations,Console, Spinet and oversize Spinet. The Console had 2 or 3 Keyboards 61 Keys(most of the time, except for now discontinued Yamaha Electones(and the top Kawai models) like the GX1, EX42, FX1, etc that had a third keyboard with smaller size keys and only 37, besides the Wersi, Bohm in their flagships that had 3 full size manuals. each board, And 25 bass pedals on the classical version 32 Pedals. Small Spinets had 2 manuals of 44 keys each and 13 Bass pedals Later the Oversize Spinet had 2 manuals of 49 Keys and 13 or up to 17 bass pedals. Just my 2 cents.
_________________________
mdorantes
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#351530 - 09/22/12 03:46 AM
Re: NEW Korg KROME
[Re: elwoodblues1969]
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Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14266
Loc: NW Florida
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Point well received,but if a 73-key size is as absurd as 57-keys would be,then why do you suppose Korg would even consider 73? Especially since one of the main purposes for the Krome is gigging?
As was pointed out earlier, Korg are using the keybed from the Korg SV-1 73. This was a product brought out to answer the success of the Nord Electro (also in a 73 size). The thing is, these products are aimed quite squarely at those that are infatuated with the retro, Rhodes Stage emulators so popular right now. I don't know if you've noticed, but retro keyboards are all the rage with young players these days. Wurlitzer EP200's, Fender Rhodes, Mellotron's, old analog and early digital synths, I think because they aren't the current 'black slab' look of WS keyboards, with little stage personality, they make you look 'cool' onstage (where 50 year old guitar designs still dominate too!). The trouble is, once you get away from wanting to emulate an old Rhodes, the loss of keys is simply a fashion, not out of any practical necessity. Ten years ago, you would have found room for a 76 if 61 wasn't enough and 88 was too much... simply because that was all there was! Korg are saving money by using a keybed designed for a stage piano for a product that has nothing to do with it..! Look, there was a GOOD reason we moved AWAY from the Rhodes73 layout. More notes is a good thing. I'm sorry, but I really think that the width of the product is the LAST thing on Korg's mind when they make this decision. They are simply saving themselves money be using common components in utterly different products. But a MUSICAL need for less? There isn't one!
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!
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