Now that the KORG Pa600 and Yamaha PSR-S750/S950 keyboards are available in the U.K. anyone who as access to both the Korg and the Yamaha like to make a stab at comparing them?

Korg - punchier/better drums / less 3rd party styles compared to Yammy / have individual drum sound editing including efx even in arranger mode/cheaper than yammy (even 750)/gtr mode/ chord seq/ only 4 efx blocks unlike pa3x( yet usable)/touch screen/workstation like sound and seq editing/96 mb PCM ram to load SOUNDS and styles /songbook which saves everything including transpose data/plays Mp3 (750 can't Only wave)



Yamaha - better RH solo voices - Sax/guitar/piano/ horns or acoustic sounds in general,
more avail styles /not so good hardware ( espically if you use wheels alot )n overall drums/ 950 will play audio styles /more simu efx / more 3rd party styles out there than other brands combined/ more user Pc software / also claiming IOS support with your iProduct /less power in sound and seq editing/64 mb mem to load SOUNDS and styles,have Wave play recording/950 will play mp 3 and also have transpose and tempo change function

You forgot to mention there is approx a $1500.00 différence in price..

The Yamaha PSR S750 cost only about 100 Euro more then the Korg PA600.

Generally available at these USA prices:

Korg PA600 $1100
Yamaha PSR-S750 $1200
Yamaha PSR-S950 $1900

Just to get the idea of sounds.


Careless whispers

PA 3x
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQC6wcuFXX4


PSR s910
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OwDvbSPHew




Overall

PSR s910
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3ndtpqaFpE


PA 3x
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6s4MC6-7_k&feature=related

Nice demos of the S910 and Pa3X.

With all the control each board has over sound can one make a Yamaha sound like a KORG and a KORG sound like a Yamaha?

EDIT 1: Very nice clarinet on the KORG, but I think the Yamaha had the better saxaphone and one of the reasons I was wondering, for example, if the KORG sound can be changed to closer resemble the Yamaha.

EDIT 2: In Canada the prices for the S950, S750 and Pa600 are: $1900, 1250 and 1050; (PLUS TAX which in NS is a staggering 15%).

EDIT 3: I've owned a great number of vehicles up 'till now and I've paid less for just about all of them. LOL

Would have been nice if the PA3x of Careless Whispers was directly recorded. Too much background noise.

The Overall of PA3x was for Musicant which is only available through Parts of Europe. Should be compared to a PA3x without modifications.

Not really fair comparison IMO.

But yes the S910 did sound very good.

I'm beginning to think that the S750 is more value for the money compared to the S950, but as yet don't really know where to put the Pa600 in relation to the S750.

EDIT 1: I've read that Korg PCM is old technology and that Yamaha AWM is newer (better?) technology.

EDIT 2: The S750 not being mp3 compatible is a downer. Am I correct in assuming that an mp3 player could be plugged into an input of the S750?

Hi Notebender

The AWM technology was first introduced by Yamaha around 1985 (Although it has been updated), the Korg is based around the Triton series so probably around 2000.

WARNING: Do not but something just because it is newer; only buy something that suits what you want to do.

Hope this helps

Bill

Yes, thanks for this Bill. The time had expired on editing my last post, but I was going to say something similar.

Often something is technologically better on paper, but the so called improvement may actually be imperceptible.

I am a novice moving up from a Yamaha PSR-E423 and for $249 it is a great little keyboard to learn on.

In moving up I had been waiting for the release of the Yamaha PSR-S750/S950. I like using technology but the S950 is probably overkill for me (e.g. I probably would never use the Vocal Harmonizer and probably some other features too). The S750 compared to the S950 seemed to have more value for the dollar.

Then along came the Pa600! Lots of features, a great large touch screen, a super good price, etc.

Advice to me and others has always been to listen to what sound you like then decide, but for someone used to playing a $249 keyboard any good board will no doubt sound better. I contacted KORG Canada and they indicate stores will have them by mid to late November and I don't think the S750/S950 are available until November either.

I had asked this earlier but got no response. When you consider a keyboards ability to adjust cutoff, resonance, reverb, chorus, attack, release, etc. one would think that a good keyboard should be able to be tweaked to emit the sound you want anyway.

All-in-all so far the KORG Pa600 is my choice and come November it may be time to order one.

If you like tweeking,go with PA600.If not take Yamaha.But if you want to be in music you should at least learn basics..

Yes, you can plug an external MP3 player into the 750

Something to consider is that the PA600 has a chord sequencer. This is a really handy tool for beginners and people wanting to work on their RH playing technique...

Lay down ONLY the chords for the song the first time through, hit play on the CS, then practice your soloing and sounds over the backing as it repeats for you. Plus you can still change variations and do fills, etc. while it plays.

Killer feature. Yamaha do not have it.

The new PA600 display, a 800x480 TFT graphical color touch view (whith a lot more resolution than Pa3X display!), is a pleasure to use and enjoy its infinite possibilities. Beside this display, PSRs (and perhaps Tyros too) seem quite old to my eyes, and its management seems quite outdated in this era of touch phones.

I disagree. After testing the pa3x and psr s910
Last year I chose the s910 because to my ears it
Sound better than the pa3x in both styles and sounds.
The s950...korg who?

Well I don't know what were you checking but to compare S910 to pa3x is imature at best.How did you try it? Did you gobthrough the sam PA,or how??
Vocal processor on pa3 is worth more than half of 910.
I am not sayinh 910 is a bad instrument.I like it too,but you can't compare those too.

The soprano sax,most of the guitars,trumpets are far superior on the s910 than the pa3x. Those are my primary instruments when considering a new keyboard. Korg is no match to yamaha.

I played the korg using the speakers than attach to it. I played the yamaha with only the internal speakers of it.

I agree with you on those sounds.They do sound really good on S910.When it came out I almost bought one,but I hated keybed on it.
Maybe out of all Yamaha keyboards S910 is the best choice for the money.Especially now.I think 950 is overpriced.

But,still we can't compare these to pa3x.First of all these Yamaha are not even professional keyboards.

Comparing a Yamaha PSR s910 with a Korg PA3X. What a joke

Mikimiki,

What, exactly, constitutes a professional keyboard? There are folks on this and other forums that make a damned good living performing with Yamaha's PSR series and have done so for decades. Same is true for many, many other brands and models. The individuals that use them are professional in every aspect of the musical entertainment field. So, what defines a professional? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional Obviously, not the price of the keyboard.

Cheers,

Gary

'Professional' usually refers to the TOTL. Probably more a cost description than capabilities. After all, if you use the term for the MOTL and below, what term do you use for the TOTL? 'maestro'? 'Upper Management'? 'Superstar'? LOL

One 'professional' feature missing conspicuously from the PSR series is a sampler.

Then there is build quality. Something that USED to mean something until we all got too frail to lift a well built piece of kit!

I think that I tend to agree that the Korg's lead sounds, particularly the SA (DNC) type ones still have a ways to go to equal Yamaha. But, OTOH, their arranger sound, particularly how punchy and live the drums sound (without needing backing tracks!) leaves the Yamaha PSR's in the dust. I guess it depends on your priorities. Me, I figure I can probably finagle a less than stellar lead sound to sound good simply by what I play on it. But if the rhythm section don't groove, don't sound like they are live, not much I can do about THAT!

I have to confess, the more I read about the PA600, the more I am impressed, particularly at the price. I could care less about a harmonizer (and if I did care, I'd be using a VoiceLive or something that sounds good, not the wanky ones built in to most arrangers), and at considerably less than a PSR, this seems like quite the deal.

Most of the korg arranger buyers (until recently ) are mid east or east EU players or most of their set is Smf playback or used in studio/live with the band using korg's superior edit functions.

On the other hand , if you play more 4/4 music , more western pop,rock,simplicity and non generic nature of simple styles (8/16/ballades , not rap or funk), yammy will make it easier.

Once you start using Styles as a major part of your gig, people start to have frustration with lack of styles (korg/Roland) compared to Yamaha .not to mention horror stories about trying conversions and bad results.

Yamaha - hardware not so good,look/ more styles out there/ better solo voices (SA to DNC), drums -weak but workable if you are a singer ,,simpler to use,easier to sound good/ make you sound good right now !(not after editing/manipulations)/more generic styles that fits MANY SONGS (compared to Korg -more song specific and hard to use the same style in other song- you'll notice after you bought the KB and start working,since styles are not as easy to get as Yammy,too late for you to return)
.other thing that I forgot to mention is SMF style mix in Yamaha (load a crappy drummed Smf,replace the drum track with arranger thrum track-your ROCK Smf will have reggae beat in no time).
Korg- relatively better hardware and looking(IMO ), better editing, overall punchier sound,better sequencer, not as good RH sounds compared to some SA ,relatively last longer ( no wheel/pot/jack problems after 2-3 years)



Again we are talking IN GENERAL.Korg has better file system,songbook,drums/bass,VH,hardware and But Yamaha is easier flow /better 3rd party support and better solo voices.

Korg us the way to go if you want A kb to sequence,studio,live playback or with a band,with moderate arranger work.

Yamaha if your gig is more arranger (western music) oriented.

Very well said!

Most if not all mid east or east EU players remove all the intern styles of their Korg and replace them with their own styles. The factory styles in a Korg PA arranger are very western orientated and less repetitive then the Yamaha styles.

With the new PA600 you can also buy Country specific expansion packs for example the musikant version of the PA3X.
http://www.korg.de/nc/news/news-uebersicht/datum/2012/09/03/pa600-musikant-lokalisierung.html

Not repeatative/16 bar styles with minor fill in the end.
Song specific style like - Latin rock - Santana's Smooth,a dance style with Billie jean bass in the whole variation one or a like is the problem.

Especially with older styles with ac 2 or 3 making unnecessary riffs make a style less repeatative but more noticeable by the audience if you want to use the same style in different songs.you can of course mute it but becomes a problem if the ac 1 - eg 4/4 piano chords makes a small riff at end of the 8th or 16th bar.new styles are getting better including fills .korg used to have more complicated/less repeatative approach but it unfortunately worked against them .starting from pa 800/500/2x you'll see they have added siMpler/ relative more repetitive styles ,simpler fills to fit more generic songs.All legacy styles I series /pa 80/60/50 styles had the same problem (some of them are still there in 3x/600).Yes you can wipe them all and replace them all but professionally written styles are still not enough in quantity there fully because of the the relatively newer addition of new fills/ break and only 2 gen of new pa series was introduced in nearly 10 years (pa 1x -2003, pa3x /600-now).

Historically since TOTL korgs have sampler or sample playback function , preference of joystick instead of wheels they were the choice for mid east/east eu musicians since Yamaha wasnt up there.(remember failure of Psr A series against late I series or pa 80- quality,function and local 3rd party support wise).
I hope and am sure more 3rd party style will grow for korg because of price point (pa600) made quality/features.

I'm typing from iPhone so sorry for spelling,etc.

PA3X has SO many useable styles that I've only had to stretch a little for just a few that I needed. They were easy to find or make. Some styles are song specific, but most can be used for a wide variety of songs.
I agree that Yamaha has the edge in solo sounds, but to me, that's about where it ends. Features I enjoy more on the PA3X include drums, bass, styles, vocal processor/harmonizer, mixer, songbook, touch screen, build quality, facility for dedicated (yet lightweight) foot controller, XLR input, tons of programmable slider/buttons/switches, chord sequencer, effects strip, and I'm certain I'm leaving out stuff.
I'm very happy with my Korg, but it is not the PA600 of course, so it would be an unfair comparison to PSRS950. It WOULD be a fair comparison to Tyros 4. On T4, I prefer the screen (would be better if it were touch), ability to audition new styles easier, and many of the lead sounds.
There's also a long history of free upgrades that Korg usually does and the periodic release of FREE new styles.
Easy choice for me!
Having said all this, I could happily work with any of the current totl arrangers, or even motl.
My plan is to get an S950 for my backup keyboard, if I don't change my mind before they are available.
I spent today tweaking my PA3X, making a few more songbook entries, experimenting with some of the many setups in the Performance banks, etc. I have barely scratched the surface of its capabilities!
DonM

That's the beauty of these arrangers, Don...I spent all evening doing a special style based on the T4's Ethereal Movie style...it is for a beautiful piece by Henry Mancini called "Theme From The Thornbirds"...it has a sort of Celtic flavor and I use the SA2 Irish Pipes, and SA2 Celtic Violin.

I also did a slow ballad arrangement of Glen Campbell/Jimmy Webb's "Galveston"...what a great tune.

Today's arrangers are limited only by our imaginations.

Ian

PS...Still didn't get my demo S950...probably not till at least December.

I would love to hear your rendition of Galveston! I do it sometimes. We are not that far from Galveston and occasionally get visitors in town at the casinos from there.
It's harder to sing than play!
DonM

Don, I got the idea of doing it as a ballad from this very touching and interesting arrangement sung by Glen Campbell with an orchestra.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiY1NQwEbCE

I will try and record my version (instrumental, of course)...still in the process of moving to new digs and selling the old house....madness...sheer madness this past week.

Makin' styles helps me unwind...a bit!

Ian

PS...Did you ever record a piece perfectly, and then look to see you didn't have RECORD pressed. Happens to me all too frequently.

Thanks, DonM and Ian for those two last posts. Up until then I was fearing that this thread was descending into another vintage p*****g contest.

I'm a Korg man myself and I still find all I need to use (plus much more) in my Pa1XPro.

Don very well said!

I have a Pa3x and a T4, I'm enjoying both, seems though the longer I own the Pa3x, the less I play the T4, but nevertheless I wouldn't give up the T4.

Could someone please tell me what TOTL and MOTL stand for?
(TTL used to stand for Transistor-Transistor-Logic am I in the ballpark or totally out?)

EDIT: As I've said, everything changes - LOL used to stand for Lots Of Love not Laugh Out Loud.

Hi Notebender

TOTL = Top of The line

MOTL = Middle of The line

LOL and other text message abbreviations vary depending on the content of the text.

Hope this helps

Bill

Ha Ha Ha - I wasn't even close.

Thank you.

One of the deciding factors was the very large difference in price. To go from a $249 to a $1050CDN KORG is a big enough first time jump. The S950 is too great a jump when MOTL is all new to me anyway.

My $249 KB must be a BOTL.

How about Entry Level?
DonM

I am curious as to why the PA600 isn't a fair comparison to the S910 (or even S950 once you discount how limited the audio drums feature is)?

Other than the harmonizer (which is still excremental compared to a VoiceLive or any reasonable standalone modern harmonizer), don't they spec out fairly similarly?

Dollar for dollar, perhaps a better comparison would be the PA600 and the PSR-750.

Diki,

I think the Pa600 is a perfect companion for the S910 - IMO they are about as equal feature for feature that you're gonna find in the arranger world. So yes, it's not a perfect comparison, but a fair one.

The S950 may not be as close. The improved guitar distortion effects are very nice, which gives it a slight edge.

BTW I think you meant "incremental" not "excremental" - phew!

Knowing Diki, I think he meant what he said.

For an arranger costing more than double the price of a s910 not to have better bread and butter sounds is sad for korg

Yamaha S910 $1400.00
Yamaha S950 $1850.00
Korg PA600 $1050.00

Which Korg more than double the price of the S910?

I was comparing it to pa3x not pa600

You are comparing your bedroom sound to concert sound .
You gotta get out more.

I'm entitled to my opinion. Korg pa3x sounds are no match for psr s910 let alone s950

Sure you are.But, be more objective if you want to help others.I don't really care what brand is the keyboard.All I care is how it sounds and what tools it gives me.

To compare 910 to pa3x is total bogus.I said it above,bedroom sound to concert sound.Sure, those SA sounds sound really nice in the bedroom,but once you take it to the PA and start playing, it's a little different perspective.Especially if you play with other people.it doesn't cut that nice like in the bedroom.
And we are all entitled to have our own opinion,but there is a saying:"Before you start your mouth,make sure the brain is on".
And this is for all of us.Just be more objective.

+1

Interesting points...but you could use some manners

What manners.I didn't say anything inapropriate.I am sorry if you took it the wrong way.

I have noticed this. When played through a PA, some of the synth, bass and drum sounds on the Korg Pa500 are much fuller than the Yamaha PSR S910. The guitars and saxes(not all saxes sound good with the PA) are much better on the Yamaha. As a slight deviation from the topic, I still find the Roland products whether its a BOTL or TOTL, they sound great out of a PA. Drum and bass are great on nearly every Roland arranger out there.

To get back to the topic, price wise, it would be fair to compare pa600 and S750. Third party styles(thousands of them available for Yamaha), ease of use(what you are used to is a lot easier to migrate to), dealer support, style genres you play(Some of the styles are over done on Korg, Ballad styles are great and non interfering on Yamaha) etc. are all going to influence your choice. And to my amateur ears, the tonal quality in the demos for Pa600 is slightly better than the older Pa800. And the S750, I haven`t heard demos yet but the way Yamaha trickles the technologies every release, presume it will be the S910 sound engine which is also good to my ears

Good luck in your choice. Whatever you use its the right one for you till a new model comes up

Are you comparing sound in stereo thru the a stereo PA vs the keyboard stereo speakers?

I play everything through decent studio monitors. I honestly can't argue with how much fuller, and more live the Korg's sound.

That's not to say that the Yamaha's aren't fine, should you like that compressed, CD-like sound, but if your goal is to sound like a LIVE band, there simply is no comparison.

Well... Maybe the S950's live audio drums raises the bar somewhat, but unfortunately, with only 25 of the 400 styles being audio drums, the vast majority of what you use will still be that washed out Yamaha sound. I still strongly believe that Yamaha should forget about audio styles, and simply concentrate on more live sounding drum KITS.

That would do wonders to improving the Yamaha's, IMO.

Ok cool there are things I liked about the pa3x such as the sturdy build quality,first class vocal harmony,excellent drums,extensive editing possibilities

Donny, I am not comparing the sound coming out of the keyboard speakers to the stereo PA sound. I meant the Korg Pa500 and Yamaha PSR s910 played out through the same stereo PA(BA-330)

Correction EDIT: Any further deliveries of the S950 appear to have been pushed back to December due to a firmware update. (e.g. http://www.gigasonic.com/yamaha-psrs950.html)

(By pushed back I had including the UK where they have had an initial shipment for a week or so.)

To be released in December because of firmware update.

Ian

Called in to a local shop a few days ago and was told I couldn't get hold of a 950 until December. Tried the model on demo. It was nice but I HATE it when you can't get a chance to sit and try in peace and not have the shop employee linger around like a bad smell - very annoying. I digress........

Only had a quick go and no doubt it is a nice sounding keyboard. My initial reaction to the keybed wasn't great though.

Also, I've enquired in the cities 2 main music stores......neither will have the Korg PA600 in stock. I really wanted to try it out but now it seems, if I did go down that road, I would have to buy on others opinions and online demos. Not ideal.

Totally Agree 100%

A few people in the UK received an initial shipment of the S950 on October 8th or earlier.

Korg's relatively more full and "live" sound, Yamaha's detailed and polished CD-like sound...I suppose the beauty behind these differences lies in choice and/or preferences, as well as the player's/entertainer's needs.

Some simply prefer the sound(s) (and styles) of one over the other (some, like John Smies, have both), and both companies are very successful with their own unique product.

It would be boring (and limiting) if all arrangers (and synths) sounded/performed exactly alike.

Ian

PS...It's the same reason we have Mac's and PC's (with many different browsers)...Toyota and Honda...McDonald's and A&W.

Yamaha should really make some kind of modul.Just SA sounds on it.It doesn't even has to have big poliphony.Just for solo and multi sounds.I think it would sell really good.
McDonald's is horible foot Ian.One of the worst..bljak..ufff

I suppose a module/rack mount with SA/SA2 sounds is quite possible, perhaps as a Combo Division product? Maybe a version of MOX or Motif? It could still be used with an arranger.

Perhaps Korg should consider making one with just DNC sounds...and their great drum kits?

I'm not sure of marketability of either...hard to say.

McDonald's? "bljak" is as good a description as any.

I never eat there; A&W either...as a rule, I don't eat fast food.

Ian

Modules had their time IMO .....it's been here and gone away, if it was profitable they would still be around,..More importantly striving to be a being a great player should be TOP of your list first,.... then having great sounds, & styles to combine together with the talent you posses,...otherwise what's the sense....?

Heck, with the Tyros4's 993 Voices + 30 Organ Flutes + 480 XG Voices + 256 GM2 Voices + 44 Drum/SFX Kits, and with those 993 voices including: 15 S.Articulation2! Voices (AEM technology), 164 S.Articulation Voices, 43 MegaVoices, 30 Sweet! Voices, 101 Live! Voices, and 71 Cool! Voices...

...I honestly do not need a module.

Ian

Laptops with software such as this have effectively replaced modules.

Enjoy

Bill

Well I've gone and done it - I ordered the KORG Pa600.

ETA = "a few weeks"

Now the anticipation begins!

Good move ...Congrats! enjoy

Very nice, indeed...I think you'll be pleased.

Did you order through Long & McQuade?

Congratulations!

Ian

Thanks Ian. Yes, from Long and McQuade in Halifax. I checked prices and they seem to be the same across Canada

I just received an email indicating my KORG Pa600 just arrived at my local music store. I'll be picking it up first thing tomorrow morning.

Good luck and please post demos and pics for us!

Anyone know when the PA600 will be shipped to the US?
Deane

Don't tell me we in Canada get before USA.
We are usualy the last, including third world countries.
The end is near.

Umm.. that's what I want to know... ordered and paid for the PA600 4 months ago.... Sweetwater said early November on the website.... it's past early November, heading into late November and still not even a whisper.......

I spoke with my Korg rep here in Southern California last week and he said that due to Hurricane Sandy the shipment to Korg USA onboard a ship was detoured to Virginia. This detour set them back a couple of weeks I was told.