http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71Rxhx_9_gU

I think the BK5 can run with the big boys...

Piano and drums compete with anyone..

What do you think?

It looks like this video recorded the room with just the BK5 speakers..I see the sustain pedal plugged in and the power supply..

And of course, you are still not trying to sell yours are you Fran

D

Not for me. The piano sounded fine, but that's as far as I would go.

Good luck on selling yours, Fran,

Gary

Nice playing...BK5 is really a nice arranger KB.....
btw,..with a great apartment like that couldn't he afford a Kb stand lol....

Yes, I agree with you Fran. It does have great pianos, bass and drums. May be some of the other acoustic tones are better done on the other arranger boards. When played through good monitors, the Roland shines in these sound categories.

Drums, drums, drums... without the backbone of pop music as good as this, you can keep all your fancy RH sounds!

Dennis, no I am not trying to sell my BK5...I did a test market on Ebay, with a "make offer" giving me the option "not to sell"..

If I wanted to sell the BK5, I do have a couple friends interested in it...and they were not approached...

Honestly, the BK5 does so many things right, it is hard not to own one..
I know there is at least one SZ friend that thought his BK5 was "toyish" in sound compared to the BK7m...but he had something wrong...they are the same sound engine

Why test the market...you say....Rumors of a 76 key BK are in the works...

Fair enough m8, only teasing

Dennis

PS: with Roland there are always rumors, but it does usually seem to be the case that the reality is nowhere near as promising as the rumor.

Heck, that thing sounds great to me. That last song, which is using the arranger backing, is as good as I have heard other than Audya.

Styles sound better on the BK-5 than they do on G-70...more detail.

Right hand sounds are mediocre at best, although some of the pianos and e.pianos are pretty decent.

Ian

I think the BK5 sounds up there with my PA 3x to be brutally honest. It probably hasn't got the same level in some voices such as DNC or Yamaha's SA voices. but the overall mix sounds great - very warm and live.

Another major plus is that is seamlessly plays almost any or all Roland Style formats from previous G and E series keyboards!!

the one big drawback for me is that the BK5 doesnt have dedicated part mute buttons for the 8 style part tracks.

Neither does the PA3x but it at least has the faders and the 3 assignable switch buttons which i can allocate to drum, accomp, and bass part mutes without having to go through menus during live play.

Just my 2 cents

-Nick

My G70's main battle piano still blows all these newer Roland's away.

And Ian.... most of the sonic difference between the older Roland's and the new ones comes down to the styles having been mixed and EQ'd better. If you take a BK-7m style, put it in the G70, then copy all the EQ settings to each individual drum sound in the kit, and the EQ's applied to the other Parts, you can get remarkably close.

The G70 was the first Roland to have individual 3 band semi-parametric EQ for each drum sound, and one for each Part, style or Keyboard. And this capability only came a couple of years or so into its life with an update. So, quite obviously, not only were the original G70's quite different sounding to the later ones, Roland themselves were not very familiar with the new capabilities, and it has taken them several years to really get used to the way styles should be mixed for best effect.

Thing is, those capabilities ARE in the G70, so all it takes is some editing.

There are a few kits in the BK7m I wish I had (they got introduced with the E80) but overall, with work, the G70 can still hang! Add to that an SRX-07 board, with wonderful fat basses, more guitars, tons of great keyboard and synth sounds, and much of the modern Roland's overall sound can be achieved.

You can even do a cabling workaround, to add an insert effect to any Style or Song Parts (which the G70 can't do OOTB), so putting better distortion on rock guitar rhythm parts, or a fancy panning tremolo on a Rhodes style part, etc., is very possible.

For all its age, there's a lot of life left in the old horse!

Well, that explains why the styles sound better...it is too bad they didn't add a sprinkling of SuperNatural voices to improve on the right hand voice selection (it's not like the technology is new) but again, it is advertised as a "backing keyboard" so that probably wasn't too much of a priority.

Korg managed to add DNC to their PA-600 (yes, it is more expensive, but it is also newer) so perhaps Roland will break down and add SuperNatural voices to their next BK-series keyboard/module.

Ian

It's probably likely.... but I doubt for a while. Roland is getting VERY late into the DNC/SA game, and still has quite a ways to go, IMO to catch up. Currently, the Super Natural voices tend to be in Roland's remaining TOTL keyboards, and in all fairness, it took Yamaha and Korg several years before that technology trickled down to a $1000 arranger.

But while I might miss out on the odd SA type voice for my RH, the power and live-ness of the drums and style section more than make up for that minor shortcoming. I have spent quite a bit of time with the PA3X, and, to be honest, it's still a push in the sound department for me compared to my G70. A few things better, a few things worse. Yes, the Chord Sequencer is back, but Korg have a fair bit of work to do to get it as useful as Roland's used to be, let alone push the idea forward into the 21st century.

And sorry, but Yamaha have a VERY long way to go to getting that 'live' feel from the drums, and this Audio Style feature seems a VERY bad idea, IMO.

I'm still content. My audiences and band mates are content, and a couple of non-arranger users that are WS players have bought a G70 in the last couple of years (after hearing and seeing how balanced and easy to operate it is for ANY task) are content..!

It is still the finest all-round gigging keyboard ever made, IMHO. Not the best arranger, not the best WS, not the best stage piano. But able to hold its own comfortably in ALL arenas, and shockingly simple to use live. That's all I have ever wanted in a live use keyboard!

Diki you forgot to add G70 one of the Biggest, Bulkiest and Heaviest ever made also ...older technology yes,.....but a very capable KB in the right hands none the less with many very useful features...it's not for everybody.

Ditto!!!

Fran
Please tell me your serious about the 76 key BK5. As you know the reason I won't buy the current one is the keyboard.
I fell into a BK7M for a great price and have it mided to an old Roland 76 key piano. So far I'm impressed. I just called Roland with a technical question and did ask about a new 76 key BK model. Roland help guy said definately not. As for running with the big boys its all in the players taste. I think the BKs are fine for any gig. If a 3-4 K arranger makes you happy go for it, but as we all know the audience really doesn't know. I did one of my regular Xmas gigs in Atlantic City last night and got many compliments. Did all the old standard Xmas songs but with upbeat Dance and Latin Styles. Imagine, people dancing impromtu at a cocktail reception to Xmas music. Gotta love it !
And Oh, BTW, I did it on my G1000.







Why test the market...you say....Rumors of a 76 key BK are in the works... [/quote]

It's nice to see players happy with the status quo...there are lots of Tyros 1/2/3 and Korg PA1/2 users that feel the same way.

If we are to peek a little deeper into the above postings by experienced Roland users and aficionados, we might learn that one can pick up a second hand G-70 or E-80 (or keep the one they already own), and, aside from the excessive weight and bulk, have an instrument would offer the player mostly everything (and perhaps more in some cases) available on Roland's current offerings...except perhaps, a warranty.

Cool!

Why not re-introduce the G-70 (on which R&D is already paid for) with the new features present on the BK-5/7M (R&D also paid for) and be right up to Roland's current arranger technology standards, but, because of the aforementioned paid R&D, be able to offer it at a much reduced price, and have a much needed (according to some SZ'ers) and very competitive (actually, it would have no competition), 76-note arranger in the higher portion of the MOTL range?

Ian

That's some good ideas there, Ian. And if they could chop down the weight as well, i.e., less material used = cheaper to build, well, bonus.

Ian

Forward that idea to someone in Roland. Your right, the R&D is done and adding some newer sound chips or whatever to the G70 is a great idea. Maybe find a way to shed a few lbs. too.

Bill in NJ

Thanks guys.

And, for all the wussies that don't like lugging the 45 lb.(without a road case) G-70 around , maybe Roland can keep the weight down by using the E-60's case, and maybe it's not quite as good (as G-70), but still great feeling 76-note keybed(both of which are R&D paid for).

It's probably not going to happen, but just think; car makers do this stuff (raid the parts bin) all the time, so why can't Roland?

Ian

If you read back on the latest keyboard festival report I did, you will find the dealer explained what had happened to the G90, (The replacement for the G70/E80) it had been shelved due to the economic climate and all the R & D work that had been done was incorporated into BK7m.

At the present time Roland main keyboard performance enhances are with Workstations, Pianos & Ateliers (From memory the first to get Super Natural Technology 2 or 3 years ago)

Bill

I think in the BK5, the samples are cutted down to 22500HZ
That's why the sound is not so good

I think the styles sound really good on the BK-5...it's the right hand voices that are a let down.

It would probably work very well for those who use SMF and do the keyboard karaoke trip, but, for a player who does lots of right hand work, it will be just around average...not stellar, but certainly adequate.

Ian

I personally think the BK-7m is almost the perfect companion to a decent modern WS...

Do the arranging stuff on the BK, then add in the WS loops and stuff, then pick and choose the RH voices for which are the strongest (trust me, SOME of the BK-s RH voices hold their own against anything!).... Nirvana!

And yes, I know, I know! The G70 was one of the heaviest arrangers ever made. But it was outweighed by even the 61 note E80, and most of the Abacus's, and only trails some of the Korg 76'ers by a few pounds. As I have said so many times, you pick an instrument by how it SOUNDS (your audience is never going to lift it!) and then you live with whatever drawbacks it has. Heaven guard me from the day I make a MUSICAL decision based on WEIGHT!

The only reason I haven't moved on is that no-one has YET made something better, for how I use a keyboard. I am not nostalgic, I am not a weight-lifter! When a better alternative exists (better MUSICALLY, not lighter!), I'll be moving on, and have only the odd regret (like I had for the G1000, which supported me and mine for 10 years or so).

Until then...

"Heaven guard me from the day I make a MUSICAL decision based on WEIGHT!"

Oh, just wait, my young friend. The time will come sooner than you think!

DonM

It's still hard to think that, at 56, I'm a 'young friend'!

But I already have my Yamaha KX-5 strap-on keyboard and the BK-7m ready for the day my hernia arrives!

Yep...it's not far off...my days of lugging anything over 35 lbs are long over...thankfully I have an arranger that does everything I need and is just a shade over 30 lbs. My speakers weigh 25 lbs. each.

It wasn't the setting up that was the killer...it was taking it apart and lugging it out to the car, or on to the dolly, after a long night's playing.

I think the worst were the Electone organs...I had a special model that folded up, but it was still a monster. It was a modified Electone C-605 called the C-605p, the "p" for "portable"...ha ha, that was hardly what it was but at least it broke down to something relatively manageable.






I sure won't miss that at all.

Didn't you lug around an Electone, Don? What model was it?

Ian

Diki,

At this point you are still considered among the forum's youngsters. Keep in mind that there are lots of really old farts, such as myself, on this forum. As my learned colleague said "Your day will come." and it will happen much sooner than you would like to believe. Hell, when I was your age I was still gettin'...... Damned, I forgot what it was again.

Cheers,

Gary

Heaven guard me from the day I make a MUSICAL decision based on WEIGHT!

Funny you shoiuld say that. I'm moving from my trusty G1000 because of weight and I'm just tired of the sounds, as good as they are. The audience isn't but I am. Same with a PA. Sold a mint Yamaha powered mixer and replaced it with the new Carvin XP800. Can't believe hiow small and light it is and it really kicks at 125 watts per side 8 ohms.. Speakers--I just made a choice betweem Peavey Impulse 100s at 28 lbs each to Peavey PR10 Neos at 20 lbs. I had the Impulses a few years back and they really put out some sound , sorry I sold them so the temtation to rebuy is there but weight made the decisionvto go for the NEO's. I still have my larger setup but will use it less often now. BTW grab those NEO magnet speakers now as they will be dissapearing soon, no more magnet material.
You too will make these choices in the future. Used to move a B3/pedals/leslie/Rhodes/Ampeg amps and everything else and thought I'd be doing that forever. HA!!!

Bill in NJ

Last organ I had was Yamaha FS-500. It was a beast. Hauling it along with pedals, Leslie, PA system, etc., completely filled my full-sized Chevy van!
DonM

I've dome my time in the trenches with B-3's, Rhodes Suitcases, CS-60's (the 'smaller' sibling to the CS-80, hah!), and entire band van just for the keyboard rig, concert level PA's, 3 phase light shows...

A 45 lb arranger is still a dream come true. When I get a bit older, I can drop 25 lbs easily by moving from the flight case to a padded bag!

Anyway, the way the music biz is going (I'm not in a really NH heavy environment, here on the Gulf Coast), by the time I can't lug my G70 around, there won't BE a music business! It will all be karaoke and DJ's and pimply solo guitarists with looper pedals and auto-tune! I will at least be happy to go out on a high note...

Other than the B3, I can honestly say that my G70 equals or trounces all those older behemoths. It will be a sad day if I find myself looking nostalgically back at a merely 45 lbs keyboard that did EVERYTHING!

Anyway... haven't you guys ever heard of guitarists? We don't hire them to play sounds we already have! We hire them to halve the weight of everything we lug!

I've never owned an FS-500, but we had one as the teacher's instrument at the Yamaha Electone School where I taught for several years. If I remember correctly, it was a triple manual, with the uppermost being made mostly for solos. It was VERY heavy, as I remember moving it around when they were putting in new flooring....a real beast to be sure. I would guess it was around 300 lbs., so you had your work cut out for you, Don.

Back in those days these instruments were as far up the ladder as keyboard technology could go, as much of the newer stuff was first tried out on Yamaha's Electone series...Yamaha's monster GX-1, or "Dream Machine", as Stevie Wonder called it, was in actuality an Electone organ. Nowadays, a Tyros4, or S950 blows this stuff, and pretty well anything else, into the weeds at a fraction of the price, and a portion of the weight.

We were fortunate to be playing at a time when all this stuff was sent to Weight Watchers to be transformed into something so much more manageable, and yet, far more powerful.

I could be wrong, but I have a feeling the Tyros4 will quite likely be my last major investment in an arranger, and at less than 35 lbs., it certainly is within my target weight for a keyboard and has everything I could want in an arranger.

Like many others are experiencing, local "live" arranger playing gigs seem to be getting scarcer with each passing year, and, at 63, I am glad I have been able to "semi-retire" (only doing the occasional Yamaha demo gig) and have also been fortunate enough to be able to move into much more affordable and smaller living quarters, so I guess I've downsized in more ways than just arranger keyboards.

Ian

Yep I remember those day. Carrying around 24-36 par 64 lights and a PA with concert W bins that required removing doors from their hinges at some venues so we could actually get them inside.

And even when we opened for other bands like INXS they would roll up with 3 big rigs full of gear we had to help unload and setup ... one big rig for PA, one for lighting and one for stage gear. Those were the days lol.

Wow! Makes me feel like a 'wuss' for complaining about having to haul around a B3 and Leslie. And yes, I did have to own and keep a full-sized van dedicated soley to hauling that sucker around......but that was true for almost all the organ players at that time. Somehow, I don't seem to remember minding all that much, after all, we were young, strong, and getting lots of ....uh, female companionship . Ahhhh, sweet memories.

chas

I remember I cut both my 147's in half & put a plywood bottom on them to haul them back then, we didn't miss what we DIDN'T have...