I've maintained throughout the years that the Hammond sound is easy to duplicate. I think it's the Leslie that provides that unique sound. Has anyone on the forum hooked a clone up to a real Leslie? If you have what are the results?

Without a doubt...it is the Leslie that is hard to duplicate.....almost any organ or sine wave sounds great through a real Leslie..

There is still a subtle difference. Hammond aficionados can tell the difference between a B and an M, not to mention an X77 or L100!

The Leslie is the final nail in the coffin... A clone into a Leslie (several of them have the multi-pin connectors to hook straight in) can get you pretty darn close, but if you are a true Hammond player, at least YOU know the difference!

I have put a Korg CX-3 (both the old one and the new one) and a Nord Electro2 into a 147 (with a preamp for the old one) and also into a Motion Sound tube Leslie top. Good enough for my audience, not QUITE good enough for me! I'd love to hear a KeyB through a 147...

But, truth be told, barely one in a thousand out front could tell the difference. Then again, they probably think the piano sound is realistic, too!

There are approximately 253,000,000 possible drawbar combinations on a B3; which 'Hammond sound' did you have in mind? Funny how it seems everyone on the forum claims to be an ex-Hammond player, having lugged a beat-up old B3 and one or two Leslies up an untold number of stairs to the numerous 2nd and 3rd floor gigs (so few bars and clubs are located at street level, it seems). They profess to constantly being on the lookout for the PERFECT 'Hammond' sound (much like the equally elusive perfect piano sound), yet on posted performances, I never hear the B3 sound featured (piano either, actually). The only time you'll hear either is if it's embedded in a factory style or in the MP3 or SMF being played over. So my question is, what's with this obsession with finding the 'perfect' Hammond sound? But, back to the topic question.

Yes, I have a MotionSound Pro 145 and a Leslie 3300. I also have a Nord C1 and a Nord C2D (drawbar version). I also play them with the built-in 'sim' through two EV Sx250 15" powered speakers. For the gigs I play, the EV's work best for me. In a side by side listening test, the Leslie is 1, the EV's 2, and the MS Pro145 3. But, as most of you know, a listening test does not always translate directly to gig conditions, and the versatility of placement along with a great sound, makes the PA speakers the best gig option.

BUT, the Hammond sound (in all of it's forms) is more than just a tone or sound reproduction. It's a way of playing, of using the Expression pedal, knowing when and how to use percussion, chorus, vibrato, etc. Knowing when to scream and when to just slide under that steamy, soulful guitar solo. It's having the bench and lower manual the exact right distance apart. It's the smell of stale beer.

So, is it the Leslie that defines the 'Hammond sound'? Maybe. Dunno. But I'm betting that if I dial up the registration that you like on my C2D and use the built-in rotary sim, you would be unwilling to bet your life (in a blind test) on whether it was a real leslie or not. That being the case, it's safe to say that the audience can't tell the difference either.

chas

Due to the inherent nature of their electro-mechanical tone generation (tonewheels), even B-3's made in the same year, and/or even the same month would sound slightly different from one another.

They are instruments with different "personalities", and as it's been said above, there is no shrink-wrapped fossilized Hammond "sound"...it is, if you will, a mood, a style, a color that will vary with the player and/or type of music being played.

Sending your arranger's unprocessed (maybe a touch of reverb) drawbar organ section through a real tube amped Leslie (122/147) or a Neo Ventilator, will get you the closest, in my opinion, without needing to add an extra clonewheel tone module.

My favorite clonewheel is the Hammond XK3c (awesome authentic keybed), either through a real Leslie or through it's on-board rotary simulator.

Ian

The problem with most arrangers' organ sounds is that few of them are sampled utterly dry, off the pre-amp. Most of them have some chorus or slow Leslie sampled in, and running this through a Leslie is sort of a double whammy, leading to a hollow, phasey kind of sound. Plus, of course, few but the pricier ones have proper single trigger Perc. sections that rob the 1' drawbar. And again, the few that DO have semi-decent Hammond 'clones' built in (including my G70) rarely can route that ONE part out to a separate output to send to the Leslie alone...

Be nice if they did..!

Then again, who are we kidding? No-one's willing to tote a 45 lbs. arranger around (except me!), let alone a 149 lbs. Leslie!

The drawbar organs in the Yamaha S-series have the proper perc triggering (and selection), as do the Tyros series...all are sampled without Leslie or effects, so would work well with an external rotary sim or cabinet. I've used the S910 and Tyros4 drawbar organ sections on a buddy's Leslie 147, and have tried a Neo Vent in store using the T4 and it sounded pretty authentic to my ears, and I was a Hammond B-3 player for many years.

Reverb (and distortion) send can be pre or post rotary effect, which also has variable ramp speeds and several tone cabinet models to choose from, even those using guitar amps (allegedly Marshall and HiWatt).

The Preset Organs are deliberately set up differently, with sampled chorus vibrato and/or rotary (no reverb), providing more variety and complimenting the organ flute (drawbar) section very well, indeed.

The preset SA organs in Tyros4 (especially Whiter Bars and Prog Rock), many of which are in S-series, are some of my favorite and most used organ sounds, with fast rotary on the mod wheel. A Whiter Shade of Pale sounds as close as I'd ever wish it to be, and the T4's added SA combo organs are perfect for the Door's, Light My Fire.

For the songs I use organ for, I'm totally content with using what's on my arranger (the T4), and I have no need of adding anything extra like a module or external Leslie or sim. It's nice to be able to keep things simple. I have even figured out how to get realistic Leslie speed changes in a style, and it sounds so cool.

I'm sure Korg's PA3X (and 600/500) would also be just as flexible and equally as useful...I suspect only the real die-hard purists would need (or want) to invest in additional gear.

Ian

I have to confess, I'm disappointed that Nord dropped their Rack Electro, and haven't got a rack C1 either.

Come on, KeyB! Give us a SMALL module!

I will definitely ask them Diki.

Regarding the illusive "Hammond Sound", having worked for Hammond for 13 years and now with KeyB (My Father imports them into the UK) I can testify that...

Chas is totally right...and also totally wrong.

I quickly learned the Hammond sound is different from one person to another. For instance the retired Gentleman who owned a Hammond Elegante for 40 years will have a very different 'benchmark' to the young wippersnapper who owns an L100 and a beaten up 145 leslie running to the point of signal breakup (overdrive) and very different to the middle aged guy who used an X5 with a 760 for 10 years in the 70s.

And then you also have to consider the benchmark of the old Korg BX owners, XB2 owners etc.

So chas is right..peoples 'benchmark' of the Hammond sound (just like the electric Piano sound) is something personal to each player depending on their own instrument and favoured artis (e.g. Jimmy Smith vs Klaus Wunderlich)...but..

In dealing with literally hundreds of players across the face of the earth, there is one truth, one undeniable fact that all agree on and not a single one of these players will argue that a nice condition B3 through PR40 does not have the Hammond sound. And there is your point of reference. Even before the Leslie is added the fundamental sound generation has to be addressed.

Any Hammond clone needs to first emulate everything about the analogue nature of a B3 (or A100/C3), not just pure sinewaves as the B3 was anything but pure, but all the tiny details that build up the sound (the sligh random slap of the currect as contact touches bussbars, the gentle overtones as signal leaks through the resistance wires etc, etc, then effect such as vibrato and chorus need to be properly addressed. Only then can you think about simulating or reproducing the final effect..a Leslie.

So is Chas right when he says the Audience does not know when your using a reasonable hammond immitation? Yes he is right!

But, you put that exact same Audience in front of a B3 and Leslie and watch the difference in their response to the sound..boy do they know it! They might not know why its different, or even what is different but the reaction is completely tangible and electric. I have seen this happen so many times over the years.

I must confess to not being a huge PR40 fan... I guess for the basic jazz sound, it is tried and tested, but as one from a more rock and R&B background, picking the EXACT perfect moment to ramp up the Leslie is akin to a great singer picking the PERFECT moment to apply vibrato to their voice to lift a phrase or emotion.

It can bring shivers down your spine in a way that almost no other keyboard sound can. The ear has such a strong connection to the human voice, and whatever allows us to get closer to that ideal is always a good thing!

Mind you, that reminds me of an old joke...

What does a German organist do at the most tender, heart wrenching, emotional moment of the entire evening?

He briefly puts the Leslie to slow..!