Have you switched to the S 950?

Joe

Great demos, Donny.

Gary

... Or is Donny just pulling everybody's chain?...

Yes they are Gary thanx...

That last part with the Movie demo- Strings and all was GoosebumpFul...

And if ALL the styles sounded like this, that would be great. But 4% of them like this, and the rest the way they have always been? Not so great!

I'm not sure this is true, Diki. I've owned lots of Yammies and listened to nearly every demo of the S950. It definitely sounds different, even with the older styles. I believe there have been some changes in the overall sound that provide a significant improvement in not only the drum sounds, but the instrument voices as well. I won't really be 100-percent sure of this till I get home, send some money to Connecticut and get my aging fingers on a new S950. Then, and only then, will I know for certain. So far, though, I guess I've been fortunate with my keyboard selections - they've all sounded pretty damned good, at least to me.

Gary

At least Yamaha have paid attention to the Gauntlet Ketron have thrown down instead of continuing to insist sequenced Midi Drum Kits are better.

At the moment Ketron still hold the Leather studded Gauntlet whilst Yamaha has slapped them gently across the cheek with a blue Latex disposable - but its a step in the right direction.

Although its a move forward they are still missing the point, the idea of Audio style integration. It is so much more than audio drums.

I have to admit the new Audio "COOL SWING" style is simply amazing sounding!.Tried it cold on stage last night. Gary is correct that there is definitely a sonic improvement difference in a Good Way from the S910. All my custom Reg/Styles loaded flawlessly from the S910 and aside from some very minor VOL adjustments, EQ, to some of the sounds/styles Up/Down it's a seamless inter-change from the S910 to S950. After three gigs so far I've been impressed to a point, ..still a few workarounds needed for MY needs and a few things I wish they would address in future models, eg: Keyfeel, MFD, VH2, Rear USB input & placement,...
But Overall a green-light so far.

To be continued.

Maybe MIDI kits aren't 'better', but they can be VERY close, and FAR more useful. Let's face it, for most of us, legacy styles are probably the majority of our style library. If the pitiful few audio styles that Yamaha provide, or the comparatively small Ketron ROM library and what few 3rd party styles aimed at the US/UK market available are sufficient for you and your audience, you are good to go.

But for what I would predict is the majority of us, being able to play MIDI based styles without a noticeable drop in quality is a primary need. To this end, having MIDI kits that display this 'almost as good' quality (listen to any of the VSTi MIDI drum kits to realize just how close - almost indistinguishable - to live audio is possible with a 'mere' MIDI kit) is by far the more useful alternative.

Better MIDI kits, your ENTIRE library sounds better. Audio styles, ONLY those audio styles sound better.

I've posted again and again about the differences. Editing an audio style to be a different beat, or a different kit is utterly impossible. Want to change the swing percentage on an audio style? Utterly impossible. Easy as pie on a MIDI style. Prefer a different kit playing the drum part? Utterly impossible on an audio style. Easy as pie on a MIDI style. Want to alter the fill on an audio style to be something more appropriate for a certain song? Utterly impossible on an audio style. Easy as pie on a MIDI style. And so on and so forth.

I hate to say this, but my BK7m's drumkits and patterns rivals the Ketron audio style drums, and my G70 comes quite close. They really are very live, very dynamic. At least to the point where the SLIGHT increase in realism of the audio drums is FAR outweighed by the increase in usefulness of the MIDI kits.

What's better... a few killer styles you can't do anything with, or your ENTIRE style library brought up to a hair's breadth as good? And all the control you could ever wish for.

I'm sorry. Even right now, I feel that audio styles are a dead end. And, if VSTi quality kits get added to arrangers, even more so.

suddenly its very hard to take the rest of your post seriously

you now need to back that up with some examples. I am more than happy to oblige. How about a nice slow brush swing with ride cymbles coming in on later arranger parts. Pick two chord progression of your choice, a nice simple one using major chords for four bars each chord and then something a bit more testing if you like....or we could just go drums only if you like

consider the gauntlet on the table...and start a new thread...in fact get everyone involved...PSR, Tyros, PAX and Audya users all in there comparing styles...should be great fun

We've had rock drum Roland examples that were very well received here and favorably compared to the Audya (when it first came out). If you want me to, I'll put up style equivalents to anything drum only you want to post done with the Audya.

I admit, especially on the percussion end of things, the Audya is going to have an edge. But basic kit, and I'm not so sure. I don't know if you have auditioned a BK-7m, but the kits (especially the new ones post-G70) are some of the best I have ever heard in an arranger, and capable (if the style is programmed well to use them) of quite close to audio kit feel.

Happy to post something, if you have something to directly compare it to. Drums ONLY, please.

Of course, you are going to come out ahead. But, as I posted, not sufficiently that all the other shortcomings make it a total victory. Personally, given the choice between an audio style I can do nothing to, and a pretty close MIDI style that I can do ANYTHING to, I'll take that MIDI kit any day.

And, once again, have you listened to any BFD2 or EZDrummer demos, lately? That's the future, and audio drum loops are not a part of it.

Happy to oblige, but perhaps we need to broaden the scope on the one hand, and restrict it on the other (as this topic is specifically about audio DRUMS) to drums only?

So, how about a brushes demo, a rock demo, a funk demo, a smooth jazz demo?

That would be very interesting to hear "drums only" from various arrangers to compare them. But please post them on a new thread so it doesn't hijack this thread.

Will do.

When I do Fly Me to the Moon with Cool Swing, I feel like I have the Basie band right behind me. It's awesome!

Joe

And how about some demos from me using VST drums (in my case BFD) with well crafted drum grooves?

Love to hear 'em. Mind you, plenty of BFD and EZDrummer etc. drum only demos on their websites. One of the reasons I am so convinced that this is the way things are heading. But perhaps someone else needs convincing!

Ok, we can do just drums, but that's only 30% of the Audya's live style feel. The rest is via the individually recorded guitar and bass parts and then the addition of the midi elements.

I would also like to hear the Yamaha PSR950 in there too. I have a theory they are only two bar patterns because of the tiny size of ROM (Audya is 8 bars per arranger variation = 32 bars of original recording plus fills, breaks, intros and endings per style (totalling around 45 bars of original recordings per style - that means you wont even hear one repeated rim shot in those 45 bars)

I think the Audya has around 600 Audio Styles now with something like 8gb of Audio Drum loops.

Look, we get it... loads of audio stuff in an Audya! Not just the drums. But if you'd notice, this was originally an S950 thread, about the audio DRUMS, so it seems unfair to start adding a bunch of other stuff you KNOW no other arranger can do...

You might also have noticed how poorly I compared the S950 to the Audya's, simply because of how FEW audio styles it has compared to the total it comes with. And about how you couldn't, without great difficulty, load any extra ones. All points that show the Audya off to great advantage. Mind you, at nearly double the price of an S950, you should EXPECT great advantage.

But, in fairness, this being Yamaha's very first foray into audio drums, it compares far closer to the SD-1, which was Ketron's first audio drums arranger (I think... perhaps there was an earlier one?) which, at the time of release, could ONLY do audio drums (and once again, jacking new patterns in was not simple at all). And overall, with Yamaha's excellent SA voices and sophisticated guitar sounds and voices, an SD-1/S950 comparison is hardly a blowout for Ketron!

Anyway, my entire point in this thread has not been that audio drums, taken alone, aren't superior to MIDI drums, but that their disadvantages, measured against how CLOSE you can get with the best of today's arranger's MIDI kits (and how even CLOSER you can get with the best of today's VSTi MIDI kits) make them quite the dead end for arrangers, and as arrangers gradually add better and better MIDI kits (if not distracted, like Yamaha seem to have been) even more the dead end.

In many ways, of the audio drums style parts, and the ability to easily play .wav's with the multipad system, I think the multipad ability, so you can add 'breakbeat' and electronica beats to regular drumming (which is the core of today's modern rhythm sound) is by far the more useful function, particularly as Yamaha have made it easy to add your own beats, unlike the style drums.