I don't know about you, but I find myself seldom using the factory Intros. Most of the time, the simplest Intro with just a count off or a count off and a pickup works best for me. So every style ends up with 3 I'll never use. What to do with them?

Well, especially as I'm a Roland user (Roland seem to have some stubborn philosophical reason for not making a Break/Fill feature), but even for owners of Korg and Yamaha arrangers (Ketron have this idea already, damn them!), there's a good use for those unused Intros.

Most of you get ONE break/fill for the entire style. Not always optimal - the break/fill might be too busy for Variations 1 & 2. It usually seems to sit best with Var4. But what do you do if you want one of these in Vars 2 or 3?

Here's where you use those redundant Intros...

Erase them, make them one bar long (or two if you need something more complex) Then program a new Break fill that seems more suitable for the Variation they are linked to. Don't feel like doing a whole bunch of programming? Simply copy an existing Fill into it (the one that that Variation uses to go up or down one Variation is often the best), add a crash to the first note (or flam, whatever), then erase out the rest of the first beat and the second beat and then you have the fill ready to go. Maybe edit it a hair to not be identical to the Fill, and you are good to go! Something else you can do is strip away the ACC Parts for the entire fill, and have the Break/Fill just be bass and drums (or even, strip out the bass entirely, and put a bass guitar downslide on beat 4). That's something a lot of bands do, and simple to program.

With minimal work, you now have four Break/Fills and one Intro (counting the regular Break/Fill if you have one, or three B/F's for Roland's!).

But here's the coolest part. The only thing you need to do to trigger the Break/Fill is hit the Intro button..! As long as you are in Variations 2-4 you will get a break/fill tuned specifically for that Variation, rather than the ONE cookie cutter one for the entire style (and if you hit Intro when in Variation1, you get that simple count and pickup, which is usually appropriate). Got a multi-footswitch (or even just one you are not using for Hold) and there you go... hands free Break/fills without moving your hands!

I know some of you power users may already know this trick, but maybe a few don't know it, maybe you think it might be useful..? And, if you don't think you can program this easily, you can always copy the B/F from another style into the style Intros, a hair of editing (probably pulling most of the ACC parts out and putting the Kit to the same as the style is in is all that might be needed) to simply increase your choices.

Lastly, Break/Fills aren't the only thing you can do with this trick. How about a choice of pickups? You can always do a Fill-to-Same using the normal fills, but say you want something a bit more subtle... Copy the Variation into the Intro, Erase out all but the last bar, change length to one bar long, play or program in a subtle pickup on the drums, maybe futz around just a hair with some other ACC parts if you feel like getting fancy... Voilá! Fills-to-Same without interrupting the groove so much.

I hope this doesn't look too complicated... it is MUCH simpler than creating a style from scratch, can be made mostly by copying existing style Parts into the Intros and then just some basic editing, and will give you a style with more choice of transitions, breaks and pickups than you already have with minimal work...

Wow! Maybe I should have insulted someone's arranger manufacturer! 52 views, not one single comment..!

Perhaps this shows what the REAL tenor of this forum is!

Hey great idea , simple and useful, I´ll use this with my One Man Band software , and I never use the intros like you, thank you for sharing.

Diki,

I have four variations on the PSR-3000, same is true with most Yamaha models, each variation has a fill, which can be activated when changing variations, plus a single break that can easily be programmed to suit a particular song. You can also change the fills either by playing and recording your own into the style, or copying and pasting fills from any other style.

As for the intros, as I've posted many times in the past, I either play them live, or create them for a specific song, then save the information to a registration, or save it the style file and create a third-party style. Same goes for endings - I like them to song specific. Most of the time, though, I use the shortest ending. This, of course, depends upon the song.

Cheers,

Gary

Although on the PA system it is even easier as you can directly import any midi sequence straight into intro 1 - no tweaking no nothing...and it plays as written, as it is NOT playing style midi data, but the midi data as a normal midi file for playback.

You can create ALL sorts if intros - even a full song if you want
Intro 1 is sorta kinda like a mini SMF player !!!

I didn't comment because I was out playing golf.
I did as you suggested on bk7m mainly because Roland doesn't do break/fill,except a total break with nothing at all in it (and then it must be triggered from the controller).
It is a great idea that would make most arrangers more versatile.
This is the kind of idea exchange that will make this forum way more valuable. Thanks for posting it.
DonM

If I don't like an intro, I just play my own 4 bar turn-around with a style variation . If I don't like an ending I just hit stop and comp the necessary chords that I like and do a simple ending as a solo pianist would do. Works great on all the old standards. The Big Band stuff on Korg has great intros and ending for me and works with everything I do.

My dinosaur has natural sounding turn-around's or fills if you wish, at the end of the styles 4 bars, 8 - bars, 16 bars etc. whatever the style is programmed on.

I don't know about Roland but the older Yamaha's just had 4 bar loops that drove me nuts with no turn-around fills programmed into the variation. I found that boring and monotonous

That's why I bought the Korg and because the sequencer is a million times better than other brands that I had the opportunity to listen to at the time back in 1900.

We went round and round in those days about the boring 4 bar loops. Anybody remember that.

Are the newer keyboards still stuck on 4 bar loops? Not trying to be a smart A$$. I haven't been to a music store in years. I really would like to know.

Boo a lot of the styles have longer loops now, particularly Ketron, Korg and Roland. Some on Yamaha are also, but there don't seem to be as many.
Ketron Audya has multiple Break/fills for each style, which is really nice.
DonM

DonM,
Thanks for educating me again old friend.
If I win the lotto I'm going to buy the board with the most Jazz styles and I'd even like 32 and 36 bar styles with fills at 4, 8 and 12 bars.

I don't need 5000 sounds either. I hadn't layered many sounds that I like together other than the trumpet and sax ensembles to use on Frogman Henry's "I Don't Know Why I Love You But I Do. All I need is a Guitar, Piano, Sax ensemble and trumpet ensemble sounds. They can keep all of the other sounds and give me a discount.LOL

Boo, it's Mardi Gras season. Come on DOWN! I'll sell you a NEW Korg!

DonM

Hi

Qoute from http://www.jososoft.dk/yamaha/articles/style_11.htm
=====================
Long Fill In parts
By definition the length of Fill In parts must be 1 measure long. To create a Fill In (Break) of any length we can use one of the Intro parts (which can be any length) instead.
When playing we have to think ahead, as an Intro part will start AFTER the current measure, while a normal Fill part will be run IMMEDIATELY when the Fill button is pressed. After the intro the keyboard will resume playing the same Main part as were used when the Intro was called.
=====================

Regards
Jørgen

I think perhaps a couple here missed the point of my original post...

This isn't about Intros... This is about what you can do with them if you DON'T use them!

There IS one small, but important difference with Intros rather than Fills for the 'pickup' use of them. For Break/Fill use, you are good to go, but if you try using them for a more subtle 'Fill-to-same' there is something you need to be careful about. Fills will drop into the fill up to 2-3 beats late. In other words, ask for the fill on beat 3, you will get it immediately.

But if you use an Intro for the 'pickup' type fill, you will HAVE to remember to ask for it a bar early! Intros do not start until the END of the bar you ask for them in. A small, but potentially important point!

BTW, perhaps you need a vamp in the middle of a song? Maybe you'd like something like Ketron's 'Riff' feature? Maybe you'd like to jam over a groove and use your LH for the bender, or maybe you'd like to solo on a horn, or guitar, or do some patter as an entertainer...

How about a 16 bar sequence...? Perhaps you have something in an SMF you like, or you could just make an SMF from the style, with changes in them (or vamp on the one chord).

Import this into say Intro4... Now, hit the intro4 button, and off you go! If you want to extend it, remember to hit Intro4 again in Bar16 (if your arranger won't loop Intros, like mine won't!).

There are all kinds of uses for those unused Intros!

Don, I'd have to swap you for my old 2001 Van, and then you would have to drive me back to Colorado and you'd have to buy the gas too. Lol.

If you get a new keyboard, you certainly can't haul it around in an old van! No wait, I haul mine in a 97 Silverado.
DonM

Welcome back, SZ Arranger Forum! No topic ON topic! LOL

sorry.
DonM

No worries. Just funnin'...

Diki, I knew that. BTW, from what I've heard of your style, I'll bet you do a killer version of Don't Worry Be Happy.
DonM