Kool....I'm glad you agree!!

We all went round and round on the MS back when Dom was making them. It still boils down to content, and assembly. I mean, kudos for Ketron getting MUCH further down that road than Lionstracs ever did. They at least know, for the vast arranger market, you have to do most of the work for them! It takes skills that few players have to assemble all the pieces parts to make a good usable style out of audio loops.

Yamaha, OTOH, haven't even latched onto that basic fact, despite years of domination of the arranger market. Of what use is an audio loop arranger, when there are so FEW audio loops available for them? They wrap it in a proprietary shell so you can't get your own loops in even if you COULD make your own, and the one area where you CAN put your own content in, Yamaha forgot to make it loop!

In the meantime, MIDI arrangers continue to get better and better. Drum kits get more and more dynamic and live sounding, SA voices make legato parts more realistic, and a variety of 'guitar modes' make guitar parts more realistic (and able to play any chord!) and voicings more authentic.

Everything about MIDI styles is getting better, and we only have to wait a while for factory sample sizes to get bigger, and we will have nirvana! Admittedly, much of what we are waiting for CAN be done now, using the MIDI output of our arrangers and low latency VSTi rigs. But the main thing missing is the skill that the factory programmers show to tie it all together. Once the kits are made into factory presets, the style programmers will have something stable to work with, and then watch out!

I only see big things for MIDI arrangers in the next few years.

Whats new about audio drums in an arranger?

Those Yamaha demonstrators want people to beleive they are the first one to have these audio drums, we all know better, don´t we?


Personally i think they sound really poor compared to Audya styles.

Yamaha's business model is to make mild or slight improvements on the next model with just enough to tempt their customer base to change up and purchase the latest model. They ensure That the product is limited so that it cannot accommodate third-party products only the proprietary Offerings which Yamaha charge through the nose for. I'm not criticising Yamaha for the business model. It works clearly. Yamaha simply have understood the market, they understand who they are selling two, and they understand the triggers that will encourage its market to buy the next model up. No doubt Yamaha have twigged onto the idea that its customers will buy a new keyboard every year or two And inject a new cash supply for Yamaha's boffins to tweak the next model Which has probably been lying on some technicians desk for the last year already been on the .That's just clever marketing.

Ain't it great that we have a choice?..

This S950, as far as I can remember, is the first Yamaha to introduce a totally new, important feature on a mid-priced arranger. Usually, everything groundbreaking has been introduced on the Tyros (or what was TOTL for its day) and then trickled down to the MOTL a couple of years later (with some restrictions compared to the TOTL).

Not so, audio drums. Perhaps the code for this was ready to go LONG before Yamaha were ready to make a new TOTL, who knows. But there seems to be a glaring error. Yamaha would never have DREAMED of introducing this feature in its current, almost unusable form on an arranger costing up to $4000. The backlash would have been immense. A tiny handful of styles, no way to load your own, no additional content of any size, and a reboot just to load the few in that you can..! Tyros owners would have been up in arms.

So, breaking with precedent, Yamaha roll it out in its almost unusable form on the MOTL... Maybe this is genius marketing, but I am utterly hard pressed to figure out how..! TBH, if this is Yamaha's idea of beta-testing the feature, they have failed miserably. In fact, I'd have to say, from reading so many of the diehard Yamaha user's comments, that this is the first PSR MOTL to take some backward steps (buttons, displays, etc) and introduce a feature that no-one requested, no-one needs, and no-one uses much (little to be used!).

Maybe Yamaha are human, after all.

Yamaha need to step up their game when this makes it to the Tyros line. Bigtime! The content had better MOSTLY be audio drums. The library of extra styles to purchase had better be extensive. The time taken to load those extra styles in on the gig had better be minimal. The drum reverb levels had better be tamed, or MUCH better room reverbs available in the effects section, so other style parts could be made to match. The multipads MUST allow audio looping. And VERY fine tuning, to match tempos over 32 bars or so (contrary to popular belief, not all MIDI gear runs at PRECISELY the tempo it says - 90.01bpm, when played against a 90.00bpm loop, will go noticeably out of sync after 32 bars or so). If this isn't possible, there needs to be a MIDI trigger for the loop every x# of bars.

Without this, the inclusion in the Tyros line is going to upset a LOT of people with a LOT of money to spend. Maybe, if audio loops are what they have their heart set on, they'll start taking a closer look at the Audya's, who at least HAVE got this feature down cold...

Personally, I am still hoping Yamaha find this experiment a failure, and choose to fix the drum problem the simple way... MUCH better kits!

I really liked the audio drum patterns on the 950 - I used the swing and latin a lot, and they worked just great. I see it as a step forward.

Diki,

You must be reading a number of comments that I just haven't seen.

For example:
A number of forum members asked for a black keyboard - The S950 is black.

People asked for a better display - The display quality has advanced significantly.

Vocalists asked for a better vocal processor - They got it.

They asked for livelier drums - Most owners claim the drums are far superior than those of earlier models.

People wanted the ability to record in an audio format - they got it.

Performers asked for improvements in the Music Finder Directory - Yamaha responded with the ability to access third-party styles from the USB drive, MP3s can now be accessed via the MFD, and Michael Bedesem updated his Music Finder View program to make creating custom MFDs a breeze.

Forum members asked for more guitars, improved pianos, and hotter styles - Yamaha provided what was asked of them.

Now, all of this is contained within a lightweight, rugged, arranger keyboard that not only looks professional, it sounds great. And, it's under $2,000. The only people I hear making derogatory comments are those that DO NOT OWN AND DON'T INTEND TO PURCHASE ANY YAMAHA PRODUCT.

Has Yamaha provided everything that every person on this and other forums wanted? Of course not - and that, my friend, is why they're still in business and doing very well. I'm confident that there was a lot of market research that went into the production of the S-950, including the "Yamaha Listens" question-airs posted by Steve Demming on this and several other forums.

There are individuals that claim the PSR and Tyros series of keyboards are best suited for home players. Of course, this is a statement often made by those whom own other brands of keyboards. Those that use the PSR and Tyros series for entertainment purposes, full time entertainers worldwide, seem to be quite happy with their keyboards. Their audiences also seem to be pretty happy with what they hear. And, I'm not just taking about the senior set. For the past few months I've been performing for a somewhat younger crowd, not teeny-boppers, mind you, but folks in their 40s, 50s and 60s. They love what they hear, they're up and dancing, having a ball.

Now, after listening to that Big Band style, to me, it sounds great. It's a wonderful, full-bodied style that in the hands of a competent musician/entertainer, a person that not only plays the keyboard, but additionally can provide good to excellent vocals, will wow any audience that appreciates good musical entertainment - young and old.

From my perspective, and the perspective of thousands of Yamaha arranger keyboard owners, Yamaha stepped up to the plate - and delivered.

Cheers,

Gary

ditto. The 950 is a much improved product, and totally useable.

As someone who has been and still is basically more Korg orienated than Yamaha I go along with what Gary says. Even my less comprehensive PSR7550 is a great keyboard and in particular its abiiity to load extra new basic samples is a great advantage in this price range. As a matter of fact I only have two wishes, one of which I wrote about to Yamaha and might be fulfilled in time.
First and foremost the Drums, though a lot better are still not in league with Korg or Ketron. But worse than the lesser quality is the fact that you cannot intervene in this area the way you can with the two K"s. I mean on my PA800 I can go to a page and alter the volume, pan, reverb,even cut-off of each individual item in that particular drumset ( bass, snare, hi-hat etc.). This to me has always been of the utmost importance and practical use.
The other thing is that I would wish Yamaha would use the possibility to add 64Mb Sound/Style Packs to create special Packs for those interested in ONE particular sound,for example Piano, Sax, or Trumpet. They could easily provide the Pack with a substantial and very good basic sample ( just one or two)add a few styles for good measure and I for one would be happy to purchase such a Pack, personally with an outstanding acoustic piano.
Other than that ( and of course the lack of a touchscreen) there ain't nothing wrong with these new Yamaha siblings......
Gary, when will you get yours ?

kind regards,
John