"Editing wise, well, there IS no editing audio styles!"

couldn't be a more INNACURATE statement

maybe not for you or others,
but i can edit any audio drum loop via ProTools, Logic, Ableton, etc.
i can add fills to an existing audio loop (multitrack)
Audio is editable, NOT as much as midi as far as moving notes, pitch, etc, but it's editable

so there IS some editing of audio styles

"Sub-$1000 arrangers are giving it a run for it's money (guarantee the audience don't care!), and the additional $2000+ I'd save goes a long way!"

Diki, no offense, but what world do you live in?
which $1000 arranger is this you are talking about?

the audience don't care?
what audience are you playing for?
perhaps if you are referring to nursing home gig? (no offense to those senior citizens in one)

my audience, mostly weddings, who pay top $$, expect the very BEST, and that included music and overall sound,
and no $1,000 will give that to them, how do I know?
cuz i've played those $1,000 arrangers you may be referring to.

bottom line: you get what you pay for, and nothing more...

Perhaps you've been in a cave this whole thread, Lee, but some of those BK loops sound just fine. Those come in under $1000...

And sorry, but ProTools? Really? To get a bit of variety in a fill, you have to export the loop to ProTools, chop it into its component parts, reassemble, cross fade all the edits, hope there's no phasiness, reimport it into a custom style and save the style as a custom one?

My audience doesn't give a toss whether it's a $4000 Audya or a $1000 Roland. If they go home happy, that keyboard (and I!) did its job. I don't do NH gigs (thanks for ignoring all the times I've mentioned that) and have done plenty of weddings.

Maybe you NEED all that... me, I'm capable of doing the job with most things.

Look, I get it. You LOVE your Audya. But it doesn't change the FACTS about how inflexible they are. I'm getting REALLY tired of being told that assembling styles out of all the parts of other styles makes a NEW style. Or that to alter one fill, you have to ReCycle the original loop and create a new fill to be re-imported (love to hear some of that!). No amount of partisanship can alter just how inflexible audio loop use is, nor how few styles there are for it. Be honest, Lee. Just how many ORIGINAL styles for the Audya have you made? Or are you content with the factory styles, and have done with it?

Dismissing midi instrument sounds..is plain foolish..

Midi is the input of the data...not the sounds...it triggers (data) that creates sounds...sounds that are actual samples...a sample that is not unlike a loop...it is a recording of the named instrument...
The recording of samples may vary..The complex multi sampled sounds (layered velocity), creates a pallette that is very editable via on board tools on modern keyboards..

These top sampled tones measure up well with audio loops..and a big plus because you can work them..

Just listen to Roland SRX sounds and also the newer sound boards..they rival the current audio loops..

And yes..you have many of these quality samples on $1,000 keyboards..

It is a given..the Audya line sounds great...but make no mistake it has some not so great sounds too...and the vast majority of our audience couldn't tell the difference between the BK and Audya....What you play and what sound system dictates the appeal..

I was not going to comment again about this as its getting tiresome but...

Sorry Fran, this is just not true. Granted, they don't consciously know why they like one better then the other but they absolutely do respond to better audio quality

I used to get the same thing when I worked for Hammond (and now KeyB), people would justify their use of third rate clones or patches by saying the same thing as you. But I was witnessing first hand audience reaction between the two. Its exactly the same with audio styles - you ask any pro player who has brought an Audya what happened the first few nights of owning it. (thats if they have a decent full range PA - which sadly quite a few do not)

Yep - Roland Drum samples (except the exhaling brushes) are very good indeed - and personally I think they are the best - they certainly leave Yamaha's dated stuff standing, but the human ear is ultra sensitive when it comes to mechanical repetition. I cant stand listening to midi generated styles when we do the big exhibitions any more and don't even bother going to the concerts now.

Unless you, Diki or anyone else actually uses, or attends a live event where Audya is being used you are simply not going to get it - its not your fault...but no amount of justifying or rationalising can replace an audiences judgement.

Ask Nightlife about audience reaction, he uses Yamaha, Korg and Ketron so is probably the only one here who can give you an impartial opinion based on fact.

by the way I wanted to thank Diki...it made for a few interesting days posting. Its been clean - no personal insults like we used to se on SZ from certain members..just a good swapping of oppinions. Thanks


ooh one thing...VHS won because porn was freely available even though Betamax was better (Sony didn't like Porn). So if midi styles win out over Real Audio its because of a weird fettish for MIDI STYLE PORN

I have owned most of the Rolands, most of the Yamahas, several Ketrons, including Audya and Korg PA3x. I can use any of them just fine.
Drum and bass-wise, I would rate them Audya, BK7m, PA3x, PSR950.
When it comes to lead sounds it's a little different. Yamaha, Audya, BK7m, PA3x, more or less in that order. It's nothing etched in stone as everyone's taste is different.
Control-wise, Audya and PA3x are really close, with all the buttons, sliders, pedals, etc. The others lag behind.
They are all great. As T.G. Shepherd said: "Big, little or short or tall, wish could have kept 'em all, MMMM I loved them every one!"
DonM

Sorry to disagree, TWD, but Fran is right. In fact, DonM and I were talking this morning and one of the things that came up is that in all the years that we've both been performing in front of various audiences, no one ever comes up to you and says "Wow! I love the way that keyboard sounds." And, the only person that would come up and comment about the keyboard would be another musician/entertainer. And, they would NEVER say "Those drums sound like $hit! You shoulda bought a different brand."

Our audiences want to be entertained - period! They could care less what brand of keyboard you use, they couldn't tell you if the keyboard has live sounding anything. What they want is good players, good singers, and if you're a mediocre player, but a great singer/entertainer, they'll hire you again and again, and again. If you're a great player, and have the best arranger keyboard on the planet, but can't sing a lick, you're not likely to be working as an OMB entertainer very much, or very long.

And, like DonM, I've owned lots of keyboards, Yamaha, Roland, Korg and a few others. Also, like DonM, I loved each and every one of them. I thought they were all fantastic, and each time I purchased a new one I thought it was better than the previous model. Additionally, I was able to make a living with each and every one of them. But the feature that continues to make me the most money cannot be found in the keyboard - it's my vocals and my ability to entertain my audiences. If and when I lose both of those features I'm out of business - even if I own the best arranger keyboard on the planet.

Good Luck,

Gary

Gary ... that's interesting, because I actually HAVE had people come up and say they loved the way the keyboard sounds ... I find it hard to believe that nNO ONE has ever said something like "you have a really nice sound" ... now, your voice is a good part of that, but so is the keyboard ...

Diki
you ask how many original styles i have made?
let's just say i use about 25% of the Audyas Internal Styles

the other 75% are mostly mine, CUSTOM, yes with MY audio grooves
does that answer your question?

Nitelife is not the only one who can give an impartial opinion.
I can too.
I have used ALL, I say ALL other arrangers, the other top 3

And all i have to say, the proof is on the Dancefloor
SAME styles, SAME croud, SAME event,
AUDYA packs my dancefloor twice as much as ANY Arranger.

I am not saying this in any way to degrade YOUR favorite arranger.
Just stating the FACTS as i SEE them, and HEAR them.

This is in no way to persuade anyone to convert to the Audya

I just wish those "non-believers", would actually stop talking sh@& and take an AUDYA out on a gig, with a REAL PA.
Then come back here and re-post. That's all...

but as i've said... to each his own, even if it's that awesome $1,000 Roland.
maybe it's even better than my 2nd choice $4,000 G-70

i LOVE this forum