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#361828 - 02/20/13 01:55 AM
PA1x pro on the street
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Member
Registered: 08/24/04
Posts: 666
Loc: City of Angels in the golden s...
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Edited by jamman (02/20/13 02:13 AM)
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#361870 - 02/20/13 12:18 PM
Re: PA1x pro on the street
[Re: jamman]
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Senior Member
Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15576
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
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I sincerely believe that there are lots of fantastic musicians out there that will never make a living in show biz. There are likely several reasons behind this, but I believe that at the top of that list is they're great musicians, but not entertainers. Entertainers, good ones that market themselves as such, can usually find more jobs than they can handle. Musicians, outstanding ones, are a dime a dozen. Gary
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!
K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)
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#361879 - 02/20/13 01:53 PM
Re: PA1x pro on the street
[Re: travlin'easy]
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Senior Member
Registered: 01/02/04
Posts: 7305
Loc: Lexington, Ky, USA
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Ah, the musician vs the entertainer issue. I'm NOT an entertainer...don't even try. But I certainly don't go without clothes or enough to eat.
It's all a question of degree. Looks like it is possible for an "entertainer" to work 300 one hour nursing home jobs a year and clear $30,000-40,000.00. That may be all the work one can handle in a year.
My residuals for my top 10 commercials are considerably more than that annually. Sound scores pay $1,000.00 a finished minute.
My 4 one week trips to Dubai pay almost 4 time that.
In my case, I have more brains than talent. I know how to get paid for work that I'm proud of.
In this area, the entertainers who do things like nursing homes are the bottom of the talent pool. They couldn't beg a well paying dinner gig, spot as a feature with the Philharmonic or get hired for events, like the governors office, the president of fortune 500 companies or the like.
Top musicians work all the time and get paid well for the effort. Of course, they have to be more than adequate and have the skills to market their product.
And, if they're like me (not that I claim to be a top musician, like my friend Rory or others)they are less than amused at the so called entertainers who couldn't play their way out of a paper bag.
There's a pride and brotherhood among musicians. That unspoken communication when you're "trading fours" or sharing innovations on a lead line is rare....a life-changer.
Whether you're a musician or an entertainer (it's rare to find someone who is both), you need to do your job with a sense of "prideful accomplishment".
If you're a musical entertainer, at least learn to play in more than one key and learn more than simple three chord changes.
And, if you're a musician, realize that you have to be the top in your field to really do well.
Plus, always remember that the audience does not spend 10 hours a day listening and studying music like you do.
NEVER LOOK DOWN AT THOSE WHO PAY THE BILL. But, NEVER sell out (whatever that means to you).
Don't play yourself out of a job, Find some way to get paid for your talent other than playing live.
I respect good entertainers. I just don't ever want to be one.
Russ
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#361889 - 02/20/13 04:01 PM
Re: PA1x pro on the street
[Re: tony mads usa]
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Senior Member
Registered: 01/02/04
Posts: 7305
Loc: Lexington, Ky, USA
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Tony, I'm not an entertainer in the sense that I will NOT concentrate on meaningless banter and have the selection of tunes I play restricted by my inability to play the more challenging materials.
I believe those who are in other ares and who play nursing homes are probably players of an acceptable (not embarrassing) level, but around here, those who do that kind of work are literally the bottom of the barrel, talent-wise. Most NEVER had enough ability to work lounges, restaurants, organizational functions, etc. At first, when I was a caregiver for two family members, I thought it was neat that several really weak amateurs volunteered at the nursing homes I visited. Then I found out that they were paid and I could not believe it. When I became involved in Nursing Home reform, I was shocked to find out that there were no talented people in the rotation.
It's kind of like these folk excuse their lack of ability by believing that they bring so much pleasure to the audience and talk about their sincerity. Believe me, that's a poor justification for what these people do.
I think in Lexington, the residents of nursing homers deserve better. To a person, the folks who entertain in this venue are AWFUL!
I certainly hope this is not the case in other parts of the country.
I prefer to work in the area of Nursing Home Reform and to raise money for the Habitat Project in New Orleans for older, displaced musicians.
Russ
Edited by captain Russ (02/20/13 04:15 PM)
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#361898 - 02/20/13 07:23 PM
Re: PA1x pro on the street
[Re: jamman]
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Senior Member
Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
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#361899 - 02/20/13 07:36 PM
Re: PA1x pro on the street
[Re: jamman]
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Senior Member
Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15576
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
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Russ, In this part of the world, many of the top entertainers are currently performing the NH circuit. We've all done the nite-club/restaurant circuit, many of performing 5 nights a week in the top restaurants/clubs. I personally know of at least two Peabody trained arranger keyboard players that play the NH circuit, and when the Glenn Miller Band and Dorsey Brothers Band comes to the area, they are among the first musician/entertainers called. The bottom of the heap? I don't think so! These are the best of the best. Now maybe in beautiful downtown Lexington the restaurants and clubs pay big bucks, but that's definitely not the case anywhere I've been in the past 50 years. And, lets face it - do you think those people in Dubai DON'T want to be entertained? Cmon! That's why they hired you in the first place. Gary
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!
K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)
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#361921 - 02/21/13 07:36 AM
Re: PA1x pro on the street
[Re: jamman]
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Senior Member
Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
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Edited by Dnj (02/21/13 07:37 AM)
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#361925 - 02/21/13 07:54 AM
Re: PA1x pro on the street
[Re: tony mads usa]
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Senior Member
Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
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Did you ever wonder how a guy with this kind of talent ends up playing for tips on the streets?
Yeah , He's probably earning up to $1000 a day at peak tourist season in San Francisco's Pier 39 Frank Do they need a permit to play there? ... how do they decide who gets the spot? ... is it first one in gets it? Each town has different laws, but that's easy to find out at the municipal building. Playing is one thing for donations,...but selling items CD's, etc,etc, for profit changes the game re: permits, licensing, tax ID, etc,. I'd say.
Edited by Dnj (02/21/13 07:54 AM)
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#361929 - 02/21/13 09:35 AM
Re: PA1x pro on the street
[Re: Dnj]
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Senior Member
Registered: 01/02/04
Posts: 7305
Loc: Lexington, Ky, USA
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Gary, actually, the Dubai job is ideal for me. The host never talks or even looks at me. I'm an infidel.
It's all done by a manager. Even if there are only three people in the dining room (and that's often the case), the host never acknowledges my presence.
Often, there are actors, other musicians (most way more well-known than me) and other internationally known people in the group. Generally, they're paid a ton of money for, say an appearance at a mall opening or something like that. They are invited evenings for dinner.
Same thing in the States. This fellow and a party of 12 frequents one of the places I work. They go to a private patio where they can be secluded but hear the music. They spend $3,000 on dinner and wine and tip the waiter (never a waitress) and me $500.00 each.
At the residence (a well-known horse farm), I'm the warm-up act for some of the finest entertainment in the world (I play for dinner), and occasionally, I get to work with some of these folks.
These acts include folks like the Neville brothers, playing for a party of 100 and similar acts.
On my part, not much in the area of entertainment. It's kind of like the restaurants. My job is to not get in the way.
I tell people I play 2nd fiddle to a ham sandwich (an expensive one, but a ham sandwich, non-the-less) LOL.
As far as pay in restaurants, you're right, my rate for 3 hours is $150.00. But, I get all the advertising, P/R and web work for the three restaurants the owners have (About $175,000.00 annually) and always score one big account a year from the visitors....most are 6 figure accounts (film work, mainly. I've had some for more than 15 years, and add to them annually.) That's why I do these kind of jobs.
Then, there's the private functions hosted by restaurant regulars. Those are $150.00 an hour. Plus, occasionally, I get to assemble a bigger group for, say, a corporate annual meeting.
My point is, for all of the above, I never open my mouth. I watch my volume, play the appropriate music and BS my way into the spot as the cool jazz dude they think they have to like.
Said I wasn't good at entertaining...never said I wasn't VERY GOOD at marketing.
Russ
Edited by captain Russ (02/21/13 09:45 AM)
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