Let's face it the G70 in all its glory maybe has had it's time and is a bit dated to some,....meanwhile Roland is moving forward with new technology in the arranger keyboard arena with the upcoming release of the New 76 key, dual screen, Voc processor, Chord looper, etc, BK-9 backing keyboard,......Rumored speculation is all over the place but no one really knows what is to be expected until it's Official release in Frankfurt Music mess show on April 4th.... Are the throngs of Roland followers ready to embrace this new member to the family or will they remain loyal to the older G70 only time will tell. So I would guess the new Bk-9 is the new "Roland TOTL arranger KB" now and doesn't have to cost a fortune to sound really good & have some really nice features onboard.
Can't wait to see the release demos and really get to see what the BK-9 is offering & how it stacks up against other KB's like the KORG & Yamaha, Ketron, etc,...

I can tell you now...the BK 9 will have to do a lot of catching up before anyone with common sense decides that the G70 days are over...

The G70 stil remains, not just compared to the BK9, but maybe overall..the best built 76 action key, stage fiendly keyboard today..

The BK9 will still lack the superior keybed from it's "great uncle".....the touchscreen (best of all arrangers)..way superior to the BK9..The combination of touchscreen and buttons..make on the fly the best...You will have to get use to cursor enter procedures(BK9)...menu driven (although better than it's siblings).

Other than the great media player on the BK, and maybe the chord looper.....the adevantages end for the BK9..

In the real world it is a MOTL keyboard that serves as Roland's current best...

When the folks decide to dump their "old" G70's I will grab some bargains...

After the PA series, that is

I just believe all these made in China , plastic keyboards that just will not last like the older keyboards...PAX1,2 and maybe 3...Ketron's line up, Rolad's G series (G800,1000,70)..

There is such a big difference playing a keyboard that has built better feel about it...If I have to explain it to someone..they would not have a clue to start with...

Playing on the better built keybords, helps the relationship between the feel response and the sounds...that I just don't get with..the plastic stuff..

Playing a PA2x or Ketron, or G70 or a MediaStation...are all enjoyable..compared to the "get use to" light, plastic keyboards..Roland's current line up, Yamaha across the board lineup, Korg's arranger line with the exception of the PA3x (maybe)

Sure playing senior gigs or in and out jobs..the light weight, less frills keyboards do the job...at a cost..compromise on the "enjoy" factor for the player..

I know we will hear from the folks that only play the PSR's and lower cost Korg models....but if you haven't experienced the difference...there will be no convincing anyone

+1

I hope they build this around the soundsources of the integra 7 with lots of free ram for my own samples, added full audio styles, and the abbility to function as a vst host/plugin on a pc or Mac.. And the abillity to add an external computer monitor with touchscreen

Things Roland has the technollogy for.. And this would certainly be something i would love to play...


Sadly i think the soundengine will be a slightly updated bk7 engine, same goes for he styles, and probably connectivity might be midi only.

Right on the money there with the "enjoy factor for the player" comment, Fran. I don't particularly enjoy schlepping my aging Pa1xPro in and out of gigs, but I like to feel something substantial under my fingers. After all, if I'm enjoying what I'm doing, chances are that's getting across to the audience, too.

So with that said, ...did you already PRE order the Bk-9?
you know you'll be the first on your block to have one... ..........I'm guessing the BK-9 will be priced at around $2199.99 - $2499.99 or so...?

Pricing will be interesting. Do they want to compete with the psr950/sd5 for $1,900-$2200 range? Or go up to $2800 nearer the pa800 slot?? I think the former makes more sense- the pa800 is by itself at this price point.

or maybe KORG will surprise us with the "New" PA900?

Fran,
I own both a Sd-1 Ketron and a G70. The build quality and key feel is outstanding on both. I do have the Sd-1 for sale and after a mid April gig the G70 is going on the block. They are both too heavy for this guy. I am an organ player and key feel means squat to me. I know Don M. feels the same way as do many others here.

Tom

Tommy sounds like the new BK9 would work well for your needs...

This keyboard has the SuperNATURAL logo on it and it has four buttons above the pitchbend lever to use with the SuperNATURAL sounds. It would be nice if it has the SuperNATURAL sounds of the Jupiter 80 or the Integra 7.

The organ series where the first to introduce super natural sounds

I play may s910 at most NH gigs because of weight, but keep my G-70 on hand because of that performer's enjoyment factor. It is certainly the most impressive keyboard I've ever played or owned.

Now, would I switch for BK-9? Hell, I don't even know what it looks like, let alone know any of its features. If, as Fran says, it is really a MOTL at a MOTL price I could be interested. Fran, my #3 G70 is always for sale, as is everything I have. Just hit the right price button.

I would like to add my 2 cents, the only way that Roland can seriously make a comeback to the arranger market is to include at least 1 gig Sample Ram, and make it compatible with previous models styles, now what's so hard about that? maybe a style converter built in like the KN series of the Technics?

Roland have never needed a style converter to play older Roland styles.

Speaking of styles, does anyone know if the G-70 can play the styles from the BK-5 or the BK-7m?

There is much that is interesting about the new BK-9, but to compare it to a G70 is foolish. Obviously, build quality will be more like Roland's current BK series, which is MOTL at best. Mind you, that MOTL build quality, especially in the keybed and buttons, is still head and shoulders above Yamaha's PSR offerings. Give me SOME feel at least! I might not come from an accordion background!

One significant difference between the BK and the G70 is that the G70 had three UPR parts and two LWR AND an MBASS Part. BK, 2 UPR one LWR, and an MBASS. A significant loss in sound choices and stage flexibility.

One of the things that worries me the most is the price point. With BK-5 going street price for $1000 or so, jacking the next offering up well beyond the $2000 mark, no matter how much new stuff is on it, is asking too much. Build quality will remain the same as the $1000 arranger. People are going to look long and hard, if presented in a store with both arrangers next to each other, at WHY the new one is so much more. Yes, I know a VH. Yes, I know about a few Super Natural sounds (which still don't sound remotely as good as Yamaha's SA2 voices, IMO). Yes, I know about two (non-touch) screens. But really, this talk about $2500 or so scares me.

Are those things, cased in a shell that looks close to identical to the $1000 arranger, going to be enough to support a huge price difference..?

I see the BK-9 as a logical successor to the E60. Which retailed for about $1800 or so. I can only hope that Roland don't get greedy and try to soak the Roland TOTL diehards who have been waiting for years for a new 76.

Yes, the G70 can play BK-7 styles. Obviously, they will need some Makeup Tooling to use the older sounds, and some of the guitar parts will sound different because there is no MFX on Style Parts on the G70 (unless you use my IFX trick up at R-A.com). Plus there are some better kits in the BK.

But with work, you can get close.

Diki,

thank you for your answer. I was just listening to this impressive demo of the BK-5 Gold Bossa and this style alone made me consider the purchase of a BK-7m:



Aside from the style itself, that really "breathes" (a la Audya) the clarity of the drums is exceptional. Do you think that this is one of the new drum kits not present on the G-70?
And why does the BK-7m cost more than the BK-5? Obviously it has to be more than a key-less BK-5...it's more likely that this new BK-9 will be a BK-7m with a keyboard and a few bells and whistles added. From the look of it in that dark picture (that I processed in Photoshop) it looks rather "cheap", so I agree with you that it will probably be well below the 2000 USD mark, maybe around 1500.
Thanks again

I wouldn't hold your breath on that one

A lot of the improvement in the BK soundset is a few drum kits called 'New Pop','New Folk'etc., which first made their appearance in the E80.

But quite a bit of the overall improvement comes from better mixing and EQ'ing the Parts, I believe. The kits seem to sit in the mix better. Some better, fatter basses than the stock ones help also. Mind you, I've got the SRX-07 card in my gig G70, and the basses on that are fabulous.

So although I have both, TBH I haven't really felt the need to have the BK at the gig. The integration and control on the G70 simply can't be bettered, certainly the lack of touch screen makes a lot of things easy to do on the G70, and makes them major chores on the BK, no matter how many screens you have.

Mind you, for gigging a mostly arranger show (something I don't currently do), it will be hard to resist the attraction of the Chord Sequencer, the newer styles and kits. I will miss the G70's action though. I just figure.... Roland, if you want to be BACK, let's have a REAL TOTL like you used to make! I would SERIOUSLY be into a BK engined G1000 cased arranger. Full Monty... 3 UPR, 2 LWR, Man Bass, the G800/1000/70 action. Throw in the CS, return the SMF Mark/Jumps, separate outs, some audio loop playback, heck, I'd pay the old TOTL price for one of THOSE!

I have a friend that will be getting one ASAP, so I'll get to try it as soon as it's out. Who knows? The right set of new features, the right price... I might sell my BK-7m and get one of these BK-9's.

LOL... but then again, maybe I should hold out for a module version of the BK-9! Wow! I'm salivating at the thought of a full BK-9m..!

Hi Dennis,

I had a good look at that dark (brightened) picture and to me this BK-9 has exactly the same (plastic) look as the BK-5 and even the displays are the same as the one from the latter. So, given that here in Italy the BK-5 sells for around 750 euros, my guess is that the BK-9 will be 1200 euros max (about 1500 USD).

P.S: is there anyone willing to share the BK styles? I am really curious to try them in my G-70.

HI Diki,

thank you for your reply; I too have the SRX-07 installed in my G-70...
Ciao

Andrea

"Flagship" sounds like Roland is touting as its TOTL arranger dont you think?.........................


Flagship 76-note instrument with top-level sounds, industry-leading auto-accompaniment features, and a lightweight, mobile design

Over 1,700 sounds and 70 drum kits, including 22 SuperNATURAL sounds and 500 all-new tones

Legendary Virtual Tone Wheel organs, with dedicated harmonic bars for authentic vintage organ performance

540 rhythms (including 25 new rhythms), remastered for exceptional audio quality; over 1000 Music Assistants onboard

Five independent multi-effects engines (MFX), plus dedicated mastering effects

All-new user interface with intuitive panel layout, powerful dual LCD system, and Mixer function

Professional 16-track sequencer and built-in Rhythm Composer; Chord Loop and Audio Key functions

Song playback/recording, unlimited Performance List storage, and more from convenient USB memory

XLR mic input with dedicated reverb effect; composite video output for displaying lyrics and photos

Compatible with Apple iOS devices via Roland Wireless Connect; supports USB connection to iPad with Apple's iPad Camera Connection Kit

Free iOS apps include BK Partner, Lyrics Viewer, Air Recorder, and more

'Flagship' kind of means anything marketing want it to. 'Flagship' compared to the G70? Build quality, action quality, number of Keyboard Parts, color touch screen, VH, and a host of missing OS features still keep the G70 as "flagship', if they continued to make it.

But they don't.

So, whatever else is currently their top model gets touted as that. Personally, as I have said before, price wise, the BK-9 hits the MOTL price and feature point compared to most other lines. PA3x's, T4's and Audya's all come in at least $1000 more, whereas the BK-9's 76 puts it into a market segment few others address.

I simply think, for today's economic reality, Roland choosing to first concentrate on the sub-$1000 market with the earlier BK's, and now the MOTL makes sense. Hopefully, if sales of the BK-9 prove robust, Roland might make a foray into a TRUE 'flagship' in a year or so. Something to give the T4 and PA3x76 a run for their money.

I don't feel that way that money should make a difference determining TOTL branding for Roland!....let's face it, the NEW Bk9 is so much more versatile then the antiquated G70 in many ways,...especially for "TODAY'S" needs for arranger Kb music creation. The $1000.00 differences can be easily be manipulated in R&D design as electronic parts fluctuate broadly on the market. For me TOTL equates to "FEATURES" & "QUALITY" and the
New "FLAGSHIP" BK-9 certainly is loaded for Bear!!

I don't see any more features on the BK 9 that the other brands don't have. In fact I miss some on the BK 9 like a 7inch touch screen. I also don't see a break button and where are the pads?

I agree with Diki that TOTL is a term used as the manufacturer wishes. The BK9 is the currently made TOTL, but I challenge anyone to sit down to an A/B test of the BK9 and G70 and not tell me the G70 is the big kid on the block.

BTW, my big kid is still for sale - keyboard and basic accessories only, $1275 shipped free. What a deal!

Cass watch what you wish for those answer will show it's head very soon as more people start playing the BK-9.....no one is saying the G70 wasn't a great arranger in it's heyday ....
but times they are changing. Good luck selling yours.

Some VERY significant omissions still peg the BK-9 as MOTL. There are only 2 UPR Parts, most TOTL arrangers have 3. There is only one LWR Tone and one MBASS (G70 had two LWR and the MBASS). There is no VH, only EQ and reverb for a vocal mike in (and I can't for the life of me find where in the manual the Mike Reverb is discussed, or whether it is separate for the arranger's reverbs). The action comes from a very MOTL WS, not Roland's usual butter smooth TOTL action, build quality is the same as their sub-$1000 BK-3 (buttons and dials, etc.). And of course, no touch screen (which is the worst decision Roland made with the BK-9, IMO).

Roland have taken the approach this time of taking their BOTL, and adding stuff to it, rather than the G/E series approach, which was to take the TOTL and start taking features OFF of it. I must confess, I would have preferred the latter.

But taken as a 76 MOTL, the BK-9 fares pretty well. It's only when you start to compare it to older TOTL Roland's and arrangers like the PA3x, Audya and T4 that you see where it sits in comparison. But then again, at a grand less, what you want for free? A rubber biscuit?

Or maybe a wish sandwich..

Have you guys ever used any source as a benchmark.....you know, something that you compare all others to..

Well the G70 has been my benchmark since I bought it...a benchmark that has turned every other keyboard I have owned or played..away...they all come up short in comparison..

For the next couple weeks I think I will use the G70 exclusively..and re affirm what I know to be true..It is still my benchmark, so stop spinning wheels, looking for a compromising keyboard that I know will not make me happy (as a performer)..

I look at the reasons I want to play, at the venues I do, and my reasons must differ from most folks..

Sure the light BK series are great for senior gigs..to get the job done with little effort, but I want the luxury of what the G70 gives me ..yes that benchmark stuff

I don't care about the quick in and out..or a little lifting..or how many I can do in a day (I rather enjoy what I do, and not in it for the most money)..

My reason for this writing..I most likely will like the BK9 and it will do great for the senior stuff and the band...but I know I do not want to compromise the goodies the G70 gives me..

The ease of changing on the fly..drum and percussion edits, not only because of the G70 features, but the unsurpassed touch screen..Maybe just a quick EQ change to a drum instrument, not the drums as a group...or change that dance tune with an 808 kick drum and eq it a bit..
This is nightmare editing on even the instruments that can do it...not as well as the G70 though....but without the ease of the "benchmark"

Some of you guys are trying to sell your G70's..I really wonder if you guys ever learned how to use your keyboard...maybe you never made it your benchmark..

Things like, besides the edits..quick mic settings , a smart harmonizer that knows what you need...Mastering tools at your finger tips..effects and routing the same...

Sliders that function for many things..etc..

I will have reservations about getting the BK9..maybe just being a new toy will keep me happy....but don't be surprized if the benchmark does it's job like it has against every other keyboard I have owned the last several years..Keyboards like the G1000, PA800, Tyros3, and lesser keyboards like the Micro Korg, Prelude, BK5.....and most likely the new BK9..

Now you guys know what keeps me awake at night

that extra cup of coffee?

Tony, in my case it is tea..

Good comments Fran , I feel the same , I sold mY G70 but still feel it is the best key feel out there still. I do not think the Bk-9 will be close to the G70 in the areas said but it will bring some new things to the table , I do not know why Roland only has 2 upper tones on Bk-9 hell thew bk-5 has 3 go figure we will see soon what everybody is talking about first hand, I am waiting for my buddy to call who has connections here in so cal at Roland when they get one I will get a chance to play it .

Bk5 also has only two upper parts.

I happened to be in FrankieV's AudioWorks today and we were discussing various things, one of them being this very thing and we were commenting on the fact that there are so many 'voices' on most if not all newer KBs that are already multi-layered: piano and strings; piano and scat voices, sax and brass, etc., that even with only two upper parts you have the ability to layer 3 or more ...

The thing that is tempting me to get the BK-9 is the Chord Sequencer and the key-triggered loops. For the solo performer, both of those are game changers if you want to do expressive solo work. As I've said, I won't be changing my G70 for live band use. The touch screen system makes live use FAR easier, especially for doing pickup gigs where you don't have the luxury of setting up Performances for all the songs in advance.

Plus that action is like butter!

One issue I have with most preset 'layer' sounds is that you have little (if any) control over the layer. Particularly, the velocity response. Most layered sounds suffer from the pad or string sound jumping out too much compared to the piano. If you make your own layer, you can set up the string/pad layer to be much less responsive to velocity than the piano. So the sound starts out a bit more pad heavy at low velocities, and when you pop notes out on the piano sound, the pad stays relatively the same, avoiding nasty sustaining sounds. I have rarely come across a factory preset that does this, so I need two Parts just for that trick. One more reason why three UPR Parts are a great help...

Yes ... another case where MORE is BETTER ...