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#364330 - 04/04/13 01:09 AM Roland BK-9 unveiled
Dreamer Offline
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Registered: 02/23/01
Posts: 3849
Loc: Rome - Italy
Roland BK-9


Flagship 76-note instrument with top-level sounds, industry-leading auto-accompaniment features, and a lightweight, mobile design
Over 1,700 sounds and 70 drum kits, including 22 SuperNATURAL sounds and 500 all-new tones
Legendary Virtual Tone Wheel organs, with dedicated harmonic bars for authentic vintage organ performance
540 rhythms (including 25 new rhythms), remastered for exceptional audio quality; over 1000 Music Assistants onboard
Five independent multi-effects engines (MFX), plus dedicated mastering effects
All-new user interface with intuitive panel layout, powerful dual LCD system, and Mixer function
Professional 16-track sequencer and built-in Rhythm Composer; Chord Loop and Audio Key functions
Song playback/recording, unlimited Performance List storage, and more from convenient USB memory
XLR mic input with dedicated reverb effect; composite video output for displaying lyrics and photos
Compatible with Apple iOS devices via Roland Wireless Connect; supports USB connection to iPad with Apple’s iPad Camera Connection Kit
Free iOS apps include BK Partner, Lyrics Viewer, Air Recorder, and more
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Korg Kronos 61 and PA3X-Pro76, Roland G-70, BK7-m and Integra 7, Casio PX-5S, Fender Stratocaster with Fralin pickups, Fender Stratocaster with Kinman pickups, vintage Gibson SG standard.

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#364331 - 04/04/13 01:15 AM Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled [Re: Dreamer]
Dreamer Offline
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Registered: 02/23/01
Posts: 3849
Loc: Rome - Italy



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Korg Kronos 61 and PA3X-Pro76, Roland G-70, BK7-m and Integra 7, Casio PX-5S, Fender Stratocaster with Fralin pickups, Fender Stratocaster with Kinman pickups, vintage Gibson SG standard.

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#364332 - 04/04/13 01:49 AM Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled [Re: Dreamer]
adimatis Offline
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Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1162
Loc: Oradea, RO
Thanks Andrea,
interesting videos...
The specs are pretty much the same that ”licked” the other day...
Mixed feelings about it, but there are some nice positive points...
Good for you Roland!
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#364333 - 04/04/13 01:50 AM Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled [Re: Dreamer]
jamman Offline
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Registered: 08/24/04
Posts: 666
Loc: City of Angels in the golden s...
weighing less than 21 pounds (9.4 kg) for 76 keys.


That's lighter than psr s750/950 and pa 600.


Good job Roland! teach them how to make a KB that is light yet 76 keys and not as cheesy.


Edited by jamman (04/04/13 02:01 AM)

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#364335 - 04/04/13 02:53 AM Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled [Re: Dreamer]
spalding1968 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 1264
Loc: United Kingdom
It sounds fine to me. But nothing that blows my socks off. I think it will sell well because of its lightness and 76 keys. But it's not something I would buy. It needs internal speakers . What's the point of having a superlight keyboard when you still have to hump around a heavy amplifier ?

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#364337 - 04/04/13 03:43 AM Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled [Re: spalding1968]
john smies Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/05/00
Posts: 1384
Loc: koudekerke, Holland.

Not sure if this works but I can get access to a 48 minutes demo with the following link, supposedly exclusive for Dutch players only........

http://info.rolandce.com/bk_avant_premiere?utm_campaign=BK%2520Sneak%2520Preview&utm_source=hubspot_email_marketing&utm_medium=email&utm_content=7819088&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-803kOfKxlduftE-ohsPV8hxmQwxMxDgD0sn4_G3ZUAU7qF-1trG2ysAag00UPhbffexAblbLOVUQzqIIKXA5weeurQCw&_hsmi=7819088

good luck,

John

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#364338 - 04/04/13 03:54 AM Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled [Re: john smies]
Graham UK Offline
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Registered: 01/20/01
Posts: 1925
Loc: Lincolnshire UK
John. Nice link. Thank you.

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#364339 - 04/04/13 04:11 AM Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled [Re: Dreamer]
Tostie Offline
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Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 162

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#364340 - 04/04/13 05:54 AM Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled [Re: Dreamer]
spalding1968 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 1264
Loc: United Kingdom
I don't want to criticise or at least seem to be overly critical. But the demonstrator isn't doing the keyboard any favours at all. There is something very crude about the arrangements and the styles seem almost as if to have been programmed by less than the best musicians. I know the instrument just like any other arranger keyboard can be customised and personalised to own tastes so I don't want to be too harsh on what I say. But this instrument might tick many boxes for some . its light weight has a sequencer and is 78 keys but it just does not excite me yet . Maybe as newer demonstrations come out the true potential of this instrument will become more apparent to me.

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#364341 - 04/04/13 06:06 AM Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled [Re: Dreamer]
cassp Offline
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Registered: 03/21/03
Posts: 3748
Loc: Motown
I agree that all the demo's so far have been less than stellar. I would even say they are barely professional and border on amateurish with not a lot of info at all.

I was sad to read that there is no vocal harmony, and who designed that USB port...
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#364345 - 04/04/13 07:09 AM Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled [Re: cassp]
Saswick Offline
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Registered: 01/05/01
Posts: 875
Loc: Garstang, Preston, Lancashire,...

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#364347 - 04/04/13 07:24 AM Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled [Re: Dreamer]
abacus Online   content
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Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5392
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Sound wise it does not seem much different from the Yamaha S950 (Itself not exactly stellar) for the same price, so I think Yamaha had better start looking over its shoulder as Roland have a habit of launching a good model, and then at a later date bringing out an update that takes it to a whole new level. (Look at the G70 which was derided by all but Roland Diehards when launched, but the V2 update made it one of the best arranger’s available at that time)
Yet to see Yamaha bring out an update without forcing you to buy a new keyboard to get it

Bill
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#364349 - 04/04/13 08:39 AM Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled [Re: Dreamer]
Fran Carango Offline
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Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9673
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
Didn't I listen to the same demos as you guys? shocked

The first couple actually show the instrument the way most folks here will use it...simplified and illustrated as such....like most here will play.. smile

The 48 minute video shows the keyboard using more features and skill levels...like maybe 2 percent of folks will use.. grin

If I did not own a G70, I would be very excited about owning this keyboard as my primary...As it is, it will make a great upgrade from my BK5, for the following reasons..I like the SuperNatural sounds..25 additional styles and reworked 540 styles...User tones can be saved...Favorite sound bank....Mic input (XLR or 1/4 inch)....L/R audio inputs (a plus will be , if we can route to effects)...76 keys (still hope for Juno Stage bed)...20 pounds...Mixing via sliders.....Drawbar organ...

assigable D-beam.....16 track sequencer...


These are features improved over my BK5....making this BK9 an overall ideal instrument, for smaller in/out jobs, especially the senior gigs and one nighters.....and with a band too..

Nope, I don't hear what you hear... smile
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#364352 - 04/04/13 09:30 AM Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled [Re: BBBB]
Dreamer Offline
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Registered: 02/23/01
Posts: 3849
Loc: Rome - Italy
From the spec. list it looks like there is no aftertouch; this, coupled with the plasticky look, confirms my initial feelings that it cannot be a TOTL arranger. Now, if the price is correct (around 1500 USD) it could sell well, but if it's more than that the people at Roland will have shot themselves in the foot.
Just my opinion, of course.
_________________________
Korg Kronos 61 and PA3X-Pro76, Roland G-70, BK7-m and Integra 7, Casio PX-5S, Fender Stratocaster with Fralin pickups, Fender Stratocaster with Kinman pickups, vintage Gibson SG standard.

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#364353 - 04/04/13 09:33 AM Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled [Re: Dreamer]
keybplayer Offline
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Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 2417
Loc: CA
This is supposed to be a Flagship arranger but it sounds more like a mid-range arranger to my ears. I think the Yammie PSR-s950 in many cases sounds better. Plus the cost is $2,500, and therefore, a person will probably think long and hard before forking over that kind of money for a less than stellar sound if you ask me. On the Roland Connect website there are two videos showcasing some of the sounds. I very much liked the organ sounds and the synth sound in the second video. The trumpet sounded somewhat unnatural but the sax was pretty good. Some of the guitars sounded pretty good also. The harmonica sound used in the youtube video, on the other hand, was rather thin sounding in my opinion.

This might be a case of a keyboard having many decent sounds but perhaps also many less than stellar sounds. In other words, a mixed bag. Of course I'll have to delay my final analysis until after I play the BK-9. The Soprano sax wasn't very good. I'm writing this as I listen to the streaming video on youtube. The grand piano sounds pretty good. Although Roland seems to fall behind the competition in the woodwind and orchestra/string categories. Okay, I'll stop for now regarding the sounds.

It's lightweight which is a plus for 76 keys. No after-touch which is disappointing. Although it can play .wav files which is a plus. But the LCD screen(s) are really cheesy in my opinion. The resolution is very low and the text is hard to read because of it. Also no Sampler which is a shame. No harmonizer either. You can't view lyrics from songs except through an external monitor which is another piece of equipment you have to have to experience something so basic and included on almost every other mid-range level keyboard. No onboard speakers either so you need an external sound system which is additional hardware at an additional cost. You also need an external harmonizer. Roland is touting the VE-20 which is almost $300 bucks. If you want a color screen you need an iPad which is another significant additional cost.

I hate to rain on people's parade but so far I'm less than thrilled. Roland should have gone all out but they choose instead to offer a mid-range sounding keyboard (at least from many of the sounds I've heard so far) which also has several missing arranger features e.g. no speakers, no harmonizer, no Sampler, no after-touch, cheesy LCD screen(s), etc., etc. and yet at a high-end price point. Good luck with that.

All the best, Mike



Edited by keybplayer (04/04/13 09:36 AM)
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#364354 - 04/04/13 09:48 AM Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled [Re: Dreamer]
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9673
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
Flagship.....means their top of the line.....simply their best current model...
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www.francarango.com



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#364355 - 04/04/13 10:01 AM Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled [Re: keybplayer]
abacus Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5392
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Originally Posted By: keybplayer
This is supposed to be a Flagship arranger but it sounds more like a mid-range arranger to my ears. I think the Yammie PSR-s950 in many cases sounds better. Plus the cost is $2,500, and therefore, a person will probably think long and hard before forking over that kind of money for a less than stellar sound if you ask me. On the Roland Connect website there are two videos showcasing some of the sounds. I very much liked the organ sounds and the synth sound in the second video. The trumpet sounded somewhat unnatural but the sax was pretty good. Some of the guitars sounded pretty good also. The harmonica sound used in the youtube video, on the other hand, was rather thin sounding in my opinion.

This might be a case of a keyboard having many decent sounds but perhaps also many less than stellar sounds. In other words, a mixed bag. Of course I'll have to delay my final analysis until after I play the BK-9. The Soprano sax wasn't very good. I'm writing this as I listen to the streaming video on youtube. The grand piano sounds pretty good. Although Roland seems to fall behind the competition in the woodwind and orchestra/string categories. Okay, I'll stop for now regarding the sounds.

It's lightweight which is a plus for 76 keys. No after-touch which is disappointing. Although it can play .wav files which is a plus. But the LCD screen(s) are really cheesy in my opinion. The resolution is very low and the text is hard to read because of it. Also no Sampler which is a shame. No harmonizer either. You can't view lyrics from songs except through an external monitor which is another piece of equipment you have to have to experience something so basic and included on almost every other mid-range level keyboard. No onboard speakers either so you need an external sound system which is additional hardware at an additional cost. You also need an external harmonizer. Roland is touting the VE-20 which is almost $300 bucks. If you want a color screen you need an iPad which is another significant additional cost.

I hate to rain on people's parade but so far I'm less than thrilled. Roland should have gone all out but they choose instead to offer a mid-range sounding keyboard (at least from many of the sounds I've heard so far) which also has several missing arranger features e.g. no speakers, no harmonizer, no Sampler, no after-touch, cheesy LCD screen(s), etc., etc. and yet at a high-end price point. Good luck with that.

All the best, Mike



It’s a Flagship BK Arranger NOT a Flagship TOTL Arranger hence the price of £1699 which puts it firmly up against MOTL Arrangers (Yamaha S950 etc.) not TOTL Arrangers, so is good value for the market it is aimed at.

Bill
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English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#364357 - 04/04/13 10:32 AM Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled [Re: abacus]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
clap Great job ROLAND ....they will sell thousands of these units world wide for sure...
keys Glad to see them back in the mix. Don't let the demos fool you just a short time ago people were blasting the KORG Pa3x demos when released also only to NOW enjoy all it's attributes. As everyone knows out of the box factory setting need to be edited and tweaked to perfection for the individual player....so why not give the BK9 a chance to breath and open its wings in a few months as the masses get a real chance to give it a go and then I'm sure we will hear many wonderful things form this new release. I can't wait to play one myself down the road. cool2

BTW Roland has put the BK9 on their website now also.

http://www.rolandus.com/products/details/1274/459


Edited by Dnj (04/04/13 10:35 AM)

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#364358 - 04/04/13 10:52 AM Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled [Re: Dnj]
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9673
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
The reasons...the BK9 could not replace my G70 as the primary keyboard...I refuse to give up the G70's...touch screen, 76 keybed, after touch, harmonizer, and non menu driven controls..

But the BK9 is sure to find it's way as a replacement for the BK5 (secondary keyboard)..

If the BK9 meets your needs ..buy it...if not...just pass on it..

I don't believe there is another keyboard with the same credentials on the market...with a street price under $2,000..I think it will do well..
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#364359 - 04/04/13 11:07 AM Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled [Re: Dnj]
miden Offline
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Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 3354
Loc: The World
Originally Posted By: Dnj

BTW Roland has put the BK9 on their website now also.

http://www.rolandus.com/products/details/1274/459


No manual yet though - that is where the REAL info is....

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#364364 - 04/04/13 12:48 PM Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled [Re: Dreamer]
brooster Offline
Member

Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 46
Sweetwater has the BK-9 listed with a price of $2,499.00
That is up there!


Edited by brooster (04/04/13 12:48 PM)

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#364368 - 04/04/13 12:56 PM Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled [Re: brooster]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Originally Posted By: brooster
Sweetwater has the BK-9 listed with a price of $2,499.00
That is up there!


we all knew it would be around the $2500.00 mark...
check out SZ dealers Frank at Audioworks CT or George Kay Music for great deals as always.

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#364371 - 04/04/13 01:11 PM Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled [Re: Dreamer]
shueymusic Offline
Member

Registered: 04/27/11
Posts: 648
Loc: Lebanon, PA
Man... they have the dimensions messed up!!

Sweetwater site has...
Height 12.2"
Width 49.3"
Depth 17.6"
Weight 20.75 lbs.

Rolandus has...
Width 1251 mm 49-5/16 inches
Depth 345 mm 13-10/16 inches
Height 345 mm 13-10/16 inches
Weight 9.4 kg 20 lbs. 12 oz.

12 or 13 inches high?!? Doesn't look like it to me... 4 inches Max with the knobs.

Hmmm?!?!?
_________________________
~Johnathan
"The Shueys"
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Yamaha Genos - RCF M20x - RCF HD10A (Stereo) - Jupiter Pocket Trumpet - Sennheiser e935 - Neumann KMS-104 plus-N

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#364372 - 04/04/13 01:19 PM Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled [Re: Dreamer]
keybplayer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 2417
Loc: CA
To be fair some of my criticism is premature and in some cases unwarranted. For instance, the price of the BK-9. $2,500 is a lot of dough but it's actually less than half the price of a Tyros4. And of course the BK-9 also has 76 keys which is preferable to many people. Although there is no after-touch as I stated previously.

There are probably many excellent sounds on the BK-9. We heard a few already but we also heard some less than stellar sounds. Which gives the impression... right off the bat I might add... of a 'mixed bag' sound palette that could hinder its overall effectiveness as a live performance keyboard. Time will tell.

Again, I like several things about the BK-9. I like the physical Drawbars. The sound apparently doesn't cut off when you change patches. I like that it has 76 keys and that it is very lightweight making it extremely portable. I like that it has micro-editing capability and an XLR mic input. But it also lacks several things considered vital to arranger keyboardists. No harmonizer, no speakers, no color LCD screen(s) and very low resolution, no on-board lyric display, no Sampler, no after-touch and perhaps sounds that could be 'iffy' in several categories. But regarding the overall sounds we'll have to wait until it hits the store shelves. I'm hoping some of these early sound demos are an anomaly. If 90% of the sounds are considered excellent then the high price of admission may be worth it. We should probably start seeing them sometime during the summer. Or winter if you're in the southern hemisphere. wink

At least Roland is making a concerted effort to satisfy the higher-end arranger market. Although claiming that the BK-9 is a high-end arranger could be stretching it a bit. It might be the Flagship of the BK series but the mother of all arrangers it's not. I think the Audya, Tyros4 and PA3X still hold those distinctions for now. I'm also guessing Yammie will probably pass on a Tyros4 successor until probably next year. Ketron also needs a successor to the aging Audya. No telling when that will be though. Hopefully they'll give it at least USB 2.0 next time around. cool And more internal memory. And at a price that won't break the bank. Same goes for Yamaha.

All the best, Mike
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#364377 - 04/04/13 02:04 PM Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled [Re: Dreamer]
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9673
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
Mike it does have lyric display...only MP3/CDG needs external screen to show lyrics..

I have eyes as old as most here...and I read lyrics on the same BK5 screen, without a problem grin

BTW: I can't find any "iffy" sounds on my BK5...so why would they be on the upgraded model.. smile


Edited by Fran Carango (04/04/13 02:07 PM)
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#364380 - 04/04/13 03:10 PM Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled [Re: Dreamer]
shueymusic Offline
Member

Registered: 04/27/11
Posts: 648
Loc: Lebanon, PA
Also... It looks like they only have one USB for Thumb Drive OR the Roland Wireless Connect. On the back, they only have the USB to hook to a computer.

Must I use a USB hub to use both a Thumb Drive with all my audio tracks from other keyboards I own and the Roland Connect dongle...

More questions will come up, I'm sure of it.
_________________________
~Johnathan
"The Shueys"
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Yamaha Genos - RCF M20x - RCF HD10A (Stereo) - Jupiter Pocket Trumpet - Sennheiser e935 - Neumann KMS-104 plus-N

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#364381 - 04/04/13 03:14 PM Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled [Re: Dreamer]
shueymusic Offline
Member

Registered: 04/27/11
Posts: 648
Loc: Lebanon, PA
On the downloadable brochure, they have the correct dimensions...

- Dimensions
Without music rest:
1251 (W) x 345 (D) x 123 (H) mm
49-1/4 (W) x 13-5/8 (D) x 4-7/8 (H) inches

Including music rest:
1251 (W) x 445 (D) x 308 (H) mm
49-1/4 (W) x 17-9/16 (D) x 12-1/8 (H) inches
_________________________
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"The Shueys"
www.shueymusic.com
Yamaha Genos - RCF M20x - RCF HD10A (Stereo) - Jupiter Pocket Trumpet - Sennheiser e935 - Neumann KMS-104 plus-N

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#364382 - 04/04/13 03:23 PM Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled [Re: Fran Carango]
musicforyourday Offline
Member

Registered: 09/30/10
Posts: 733
Loc: So California, USA
I am not ready to make a comment poss or negative I just sold my Fc-7 pedal now i am wishing it did not I would like to hear more of the overall sounds as a Bk-5 user I like the piano sounds on it I am hopeful the put more piano sounds and useful type sounds in the super natural sound set I keep hearing people say no lyric display but my bk-5 displays chords and lyrics on smf files so why would they not do it on this unit esp since there are 2 screens what would be the use for additional screens if they where going away from that . that is a very Important thing to have on a arrag keyboard I see they are displaying lyric display on a Ipad that is the way the trend is going and it seems they will have a lot to offer in this area I hope to play one soon. I am in Los Angeles and Roland is pretty close bye I might see if I can go bye and play one.
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#364387 - 04/04/13 05:48 PM Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled [Re: musicforyourday]
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9673
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
Ron if you get to Roland's building...and they actually have a BK9......check under the keys for metal weights...that would make it the Juno Stage bed..

Also I have no doubt the BK9 reads lyrics and shows on the internal screen..only the CDG needs external screen..according to what I have read and seen on video...
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#364394 - 04/05/13 12:46 AM Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled [Re: Tostie]
jamman Offline
Member

Registered: 08/24/04
Posts: 666
Loc: City of Angels in the golden s...
Originally Posted By: Tostie



Style programming and especially bass programming (lack of dynamics) is poor.Although drums samples themselves are not bad.
What a shame. Great hardware/weight factor etc.

Supernatural sounds still have alot of homework to do,No where near SA IMHO.

Thay also need to hire someone who knows the strengths and weaknesses of the keyboard.

As for now, Yamaha has nothing to worry about,YET!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3ndtpqaFpE



Edited by jamman (04/05/13 12:50 AM)

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#364395 - 04/05/13 01:59 AM Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled [Re: Dreamer]
spalding1968 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 1264
Loc: United Kingdom
That's what I couldn't put my finger on! There wasn't any dynamics in the styles at all and it sounded very crude. Almost general midi sounds. Not quite as bad as that but you know what I mean. The only interesting stuff happened towards the end of the demonstration when the older fella started to play

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#364399 - 04/05/13 06:55 AM Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled [Re: Dreamer]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703

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#364400 - 04/05/13 06:58 AM Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled [Re: Dreamer]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703

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#364401 - 04/05/13 06:59 AM Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled [Re: jamman]
abacus Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5392
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Originally Posted By: jamman
Originally Posted By: Tostie



Style programming and especially bass programming (lack of dynamics) is poor.Although drums samples themselves are not bad.
What a shame. Great hardware/weight factor etc.

Supernatural sounds still have alot of homework to do,No where near SA IMHO.

Thay also need to hire someone who knows the strengths and weaknesses of the keyboard.

As for now, Yamaha has nothing to worry about,YET!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3ndtpqaFpE



Not a relevant comparison, the Yamaha was a recorded, processed and mastered demo, the Roland was a Live demo, play a Yamaha live (As was the Rolland) and you will find it sounds nothing like the recording. (Always compare apples with apples not oranges)

Bill
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English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#364403 - 04/05/13 07:20 AM Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled [Re: Dreamer]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15576
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Bill, I wouldn't put money on that statement. We have several great players on this forum that played Yammies live, and the dynamics were incredible. Not at all impressed by the vids I've seen on this thread.

Cheers,

Gary cool
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#364406 - 04/05/13 08:19 AM Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled [Re: Dreamer]
FransN Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/16/09
Posts: 1415
Loc: Netherlands
Judging an arranger based on poor a video? Same mistake people did with the PA3X. Wait for better demo's or till you can play the BK 9 yourself before juding the sound of it.

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#364408 - 04/05/13 08:30 AM Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled [Re: FransN]
tony mads usa Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 14376
Loc: East Greenwich RI USA
the fact that some people will judge the keyboard based on what they see and hear on the Internet absolutely baffles me...how can you make a judgement without your hands, eyes, and ears being involved in the process... Some boards, such as the KORG, you even need to get home and play with a while before you know its true potential...
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#364414 - 04/05/13 09:00 AM Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled [Re: Dreamer]
spalding1968 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 1264
Loc: United Kingdom
Believe it or not the manufactures put out these videos on the web to encourage people to buy their instruments so why should it come as any surprise that these same demos can put people off ? I have heard some incredible demos on the web that have made me want to buy that keyboard . Certainly I will try before I buy but the interest in buying on my case is often piqued by a great demo . If that's not the case for a substantial bunch of people then the manufacturers are wasting a lot of time and money with these demos are they not ?

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#364416 - 04/05/13 09:42 AM Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled [Re: Dreamer]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15576
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
I agree. I would not base my assessment of an arranger keyboard on demos posted on YouTube or an other site, for that matter. However, as stated above, the dynamics just don't seem to be there, at least not to me. I may change my mind after hearing and playing the same model in a store. I base my assessments solely on MY first hand experiences - that's why I rarely change keyboards.

Cheers,

Gary
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)

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#364417 - 04/05/13 09:45 AM Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled [Re: travlin'easy]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Originally Posted By: travlin'easy
I agree. I would not base my assessment of an arranger keyboard on demos posted on YouTube or an other site, for that matter. However, as stated above, the dynamics just don't seem to be there, at least not to me. I may change my mind after hearing and playing the same model in a store. I base my assessments solely on MY first hand experiences - that's why I rarely change keyboards.

Cheers,

Gary



Gary that S950 on the way to you yet?

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#364420 - 04/05/13 11:09 AM Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled [Re: tony mads usa]
adimatis Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1162
Loc: Oradea, RO
Originally Posted By: tony mads usa
the fact that some people will judge the keyboard based on what they see and hear on the Internet absolutely baffles me...how can you make a judgement without your hands, eyes, and ears being involved in the process... Some boards, such as the KORG, you even need to get home and play with a while before you know its true potential...


Then how come Korg's demos are much better on the (same) internet? smile

Actually, when you "hear" more than "see" (by that I mean playing a keyboard in person) you could even be more objective...
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#364423 - 04/05/13 11:28 AM Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled [Re: Dreamer]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14277
Loc: NW Florida
My first though about it is the dismay in learning that the CS is an audio function. This is absolute lunacy! The entire REASON for a Chord Sequencer is that it records ONLY the chords, and you still have complete control over what the arranger does with those chords as if you were playing them yourself.

An audio recorder is going to record everything you do, fills, Variations, stops, you name it. Barely worth the time of day. Might as well make an SMF of the backing, and use that!

Roland, call me! Your boys have lost their minds!
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An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#364427 - 04/05/13 11:45 AM Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled [Re: Dreamer]
Phantom75 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/08/03
Posts: 66
Loc: Italy
CS is not an audio function! no audio looping station on bk-9
I had the impression too that description is not clear, but do no doubt,
CS is reintroduced from G1000

audio functionalities are relative to Audio Key function and wav recorder (same as BK series)

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#364428 - 04/05/13 11:46 AM Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled [Re: adimatis]
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9673
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
Originally Posted By: adimatis
Originally Posted By: tony mads usa
the fact that some people will judge the keyboard based on what they see and hear on the Internet absolutely baffles me...how can you make a judgement without your hands, eyes, and ears being involved in the process... Some boards, such as the KORG, you even need to get home and play with a while before you know its true potential...


Then how come Korg's demos are much better on the (same) internet? smile

Actually, when you "hear" more than "see" (by that I mean playing a keyboard in person) you could even be more objective...







Hi Adi....What we hear on the internet is still subjective...What you think sounds great (Korg demo), may still sound less than great to me...I have the benefit of comparing sounds side by side.I have a BK5 and know what it sounds like in relationship to the new BK9..I know it will be at least the same sound and actually the added SuperNatural sounds will be a bonus..
The absense of a harmonizer, although I would like it onboard, for most will not be a no deal decision..

As opinions go, I do prefer Rolands sound over Korg...I always thought that Korg is too synthetic...yes there are some nice sounds, but they still have the same characteristics..I am not saying they are bad, just different than my preference...I find the more realistic sounds coming from Roland...Yamaha also has some great sounds...but only a few..across the board, most are not want I want....

As harmonizers go..Yamaha is still out to lunch, and Korg is highly overated(not because of the sound quality, but it is not versatile on stage as Roland's offering)....again...just opinion..and you can see how we all have different views..

If you like it...buy it.....If not....don't buy it and move on...

Pessimistic comments about an online demo, will not help anyone make a good decision ..untill they try it (and more than ten minutes) smile

I have had a lot of different brands and models to do side by side...so guess work is not in the equation grin


Edited by Fran Carango (04/05/13 11:52 AM)
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#364431 - 04/05/13 11:55 AM Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled [Re: Phantom75]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14277
Loc: NW Florida
Originally Posted By: Phantom75
CS is not an audio function! no audio looping station on bk-9
I had the impression too that description is not clear, but do no doubt,
CS is reintroduced from G1000

audio functionalities are relative to Audio Key function and wav recorder (same as BK series)


Quote:
The convenient Chord Loop feature instantly captures rhythm backings as WAV audio loops, and also makes it simple to build chord sequences from rhythms to use for composing in the sequencer.


That's straight from the Connect page. Hard to confuse that.
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An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#364432 - 04/05/13 12:01 PM Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled [Re: Dreamer]
adimatis Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1162
Loc: Oradea, RO
I agree with you completely. Sound is always a matter of taste.
But there's a truth in saying the demo we've seen on BK9 is less than breath taking.
To me, I like Korg sounds better, but I do prefer Roland styles - that is why I am curious and interested on this new offering.
The biggest mistery to me is why would they add the mic input, with reverb and all, but not the harmonizer... Or, why put the mic input if not onboard speakers?... Does not make sense to me. What is gained? You either have to take with you the VH box, or the amp speakers. Or more likely both. What is gained? Maybe they believe this was necessary so that people can record their voice together with the instrumental...
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#364433 - 04/05/13 12:01 PM Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled [Re: Dreamer]
Phantom75 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/08/03
Posts: 66
Loc: Italy
DIki, I understand your point and I was confused too reading the description,
but please believe me that CS and CL are both MIDI...
please keep in mind that BK9 has already been showed in some events here in Europe wink and someone could already get hands on it wink

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#364435 - 04/05/13 12:17 PM Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled [Re: Dreamer]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14277
Loc: NW Florida
I doubt anyone getting a brief hands on with the BK-9 would be able to tell the difference between an audio chord looper and a MIDI chord 'sequencer' unless they tried changing variations and fills while the loop was playing.
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An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#364436 - 04/05/13 12:22 PM Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled [Re: Dreamer]
Phantom75 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/08/03
Posts: 66
Loc: Italy
ok, of course you are free to not believe to my words...

just one question... do you know where Roland arrangers and vaccordion are designed?? wink

but wait some days and FMM will start...I'll be there...

my best

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#364438 - 04/05/13 01:23 PM Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled [Re: Dreamer]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14277
Loc: NW Florida
Either Roland's ad copy and brochure producers are incompetent, or their R&D team is.

So far, I've seen the R&D team make stupid decision after stupid decision, so I tend to assume that it is they who are the more likely to mess this up.

Don't forget, a similar kind of audio looper just got added to the VR-09 performance keyboard. Roland tend to use what is currently available on other keyboards rather than innovate for the arranger division.

And sorry, I don't honestly CARE 'where' the BK9 is designed. Those are the bozos that dropped the CS in the first place, and have brought out at least TEN arrangers since then without the feature on it... Hardly confidence inspiring. In fact, since the G1000 (and some of the G70's features) Roland have done NOTHING but go backwards ever since. Sure, the SOUNDS continue to improve (somewhat, most notably the drums and guitars), but I can give you a laundry list of incredible features Roland have DROPPED over the last 15 years or so. Let us hope that FOR ONCE, Roland have blundered in the other direction and forgotten to tell us about something they ADDED, rather than remain mute about what they dropped!

Roland's ad copy is usually pretty spot on. I'll be very happy if the Chord 'Looper' is actually a Chord 'Sequencer', but it seems quite a bad blunder to misunderstand its functions that wildly if you assume that most everything ELSE is correct.
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An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#364443 - 04/05/13 01:40 PM Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled [Re: Dreamer]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14277
Loc: NW Florida
Not too much buzz yet about the 'Audio Key' function. This strikes me as being functionally similar to the PSR S950's audio multipads... Except you can have seven of them (rather than four) and that they use keys rather than buttons to trigger.

So far, in the OFFICIAL ad copy, there's no mention of whether these are tempo synced and can loop (being able to loop would be a huge improvement over the S950's audio multipad feature). There's an awful lot of conjecture, but I am not coming off the fence until I see the manual (not out yet).

But, if Roland for once got it right, and had them loop and be synced, that's an incredible feature. Finally, the melding of audio loops and MIDI styles (noticed how Roland have mostly quit using 'styles' and are moving to saying 'rhythms' nowadays? LOL Wouldn't want to remind the kids about this being an 'arranger' now, would we?!). The .WAV's do get leaded in per Performance, so that's quite cool.

It's the little stuff flying under the radar that often turns out to be the game changer...

BTW, I know Ketron have been able to do this for a while, but it's new at this price point.
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#364444 - 04/05/13 01:47 PM Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled [Re: Dreamer]
miden Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 3354
Loc: The World
Still no manual Diki I notice....this would help explain all of these issues...

It does seem odd that all the other data is out there but no manual??

Surely they are not trying to hide inadequacies and instead giving "joe public" a highly "spinified" version of the capabilities...

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#364448 - 04/05/13 02:01 PM Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled [Re: Dreamer]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14277
Loc: NW Florida
Manual tends to come out when the product ships. Gives them time for last minute revisions, I would imagine.

When DOES this ship, BTW?

TBH, most of the 'spin' I'm seeing is coming from ill-informed 'Joe Public' readers, conjecturing their brains out! I prefer to stick to the official ad copy rather than what some guy told some other guy about what he had heard from another guy who saw it briefly but couldn't play it!
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#364450 - 04/05/13 02:07 PM Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled [Re: Dreamer]
miden Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 3354
Loc: The World
Yep me too - "word" I am getting is shipping could be around the beginning of May out here...

Although, I daresay the release model is now set as you can expect a big show at MM...maybe the manual then.

I don't really pay much attention to ANY promo material - it is all spin...give me the "nuts and bolts" manual, THAT'S where the real data is...as you well know wink

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#364453 - 04/05/13 02:43 PM Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled [Re: Dreamer]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14277
Loc: NW Florida
Well, for once I am hoping the 'spin' ad copy is WORSE than reality!

If that chord looper is simply what it says it is, it is a HUGE blunder by Roland R&D.

And if it is a 'proper' CS, that's a huge blunder by Roland Marketing.

Thing that worries me is, Marketing rarely blunder on the side of UNDER-reporting capabilities! Hyperbole and exaggeration is their usual mode!
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#364475 - 04/05/13 06:51 PM Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled [Re: Dreamer]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15576
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Not yet, Donny. I have to put some money into the bank before I can start taking it out again. Still paying for the trip home, which was about $800 for gasoline alone. Add to that the cost of food, overnight stays at various marinas, booze, etc..., and it all adds up to the price of a couple new keyboards. I'm not in a hurry - that's for young people. wink

Gary cool
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)

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#364477 - 04/05/13 08:27 PM Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled [Re: Dreamer]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Gary you da man!!!!!

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