 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
#364330 - 04/04/13 12:09 AM
Roland BK-9 unveiled
|
Senior Member
Registered: 02/23/01
Posts: 3849
Loc: Rome - Italy
|
Roland BK-9 Flagship 76-note instrument with top-level sounds, industry-leading auto-accompaniment features, and a lightweight, mobile design Over 1,700 sounds and 70 drum kits, including 22 SuperNATURAL sounds and 500 all-new tones Legendary Virtual Tone Wheel organs, with dedicated harmonic bars for authentic vintage organ performance 540 rhythms (including 25 new rhythms), remastered for exceptional audio quality; over 1000 Music Assistants onboard Five independent multi-effects engines (MFX), plus dedicated mastering effects All-new user interface with intuitive panel layout, powerful dual LCD system, and Mixer function Professional 16-track sequencer and built-in Rhythm Composer; Chord Loop and Audio Key functions Song playback/recording, unlimited Performance List storage, and more from convenient USB memory XLR mic input with dedicated reverb effect; composite video output for displaying lyrics and photos Compatible with Apple iOS devices via Roland Wireless Connect; supports USB connection to iPad with Apple’s iPad Camera Connection Kit Free iOS apps include BK Partner, Lyrics Viewer, Air Recorder, and more
_________________________
Korg Kronos 61 and PA3X-Pro76, Roland G-70, BK7-m and Integra 7, Casio PX-5S, Fender Stratocaster with Fralin pickups, Fender Stratocaster with Kinman pickups, vintage Gibson SG standard.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#364339 - 04/04/13 03:11 AM
Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled
[Re: Dreamer]
|
Member
Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 162
|
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#364345 - 04/04/13 06:09 AM
Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled
[Re: cassp]
|
Member
Registered: 01/05/01
Posts: 875
Loc: Garstang, Preston, Lancashire,...
|
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#364352 - 04/04/13 08:30 AM
Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled
[Re: BBBB]
|
Senior Member
Registered: 02/23/01
Posts: 3849
Loc: Rome - Italy
|
From the spec. list it looks like there is no aftertouch; this, coupled with the plasticky look, confirms my initial feelings that it cannot be a TOTL arranger. Now, if the price is correct (around 1500 USD) it could sell well, but if it's more than that the people at Roland will have shot themselves in the foot.
Just my opinion, of course.
_________________________
Korg Kronos 61 and PA3X-Pro76, Roland G-70, BK7-m and Integra 7, Casio PX-5S, Fender Stratocaster with Fralin pickups, Fender Stratocaster with Kinman pickups, vintage Gibson SG standard.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#364353 - 04/04/13 08:33 AM
Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled
[Re: Dreamer]
|
Senior Member
Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 2417
Loc: CA
|
This is supposed to be a Flagship arranger but it sounds more like a mid-range arranger to my ears. I think the Yammie PSR-s950 in many cases sounds better. Plus the cost is $2,500, and therefore, a person will probably think long and hard before forking over that kind of money for a less than stellar sound if you ask me. On the Roland Connect website there are two videos showcasing some of the sounds. I very much liked the organ sounds and the synth sound in the second video. The trumpet sounded somewhat unnatural but the sax was pretty good. Some of the guitars sounded pretty good also. The harmonica sound used in the youtube video, on the other hand, was rather thin sounding in my opinion.
This might be a case of a keyboard having many decent sounds but perhaps also many less than stellar sounds. In other words, a mixed bag. Of course I'll have to delay my final analysis until after I play the BK-9. The Soprano sax wasn't very good. I'm writing this as I listen to the streaming video on youtube. The grand piano sounds pretty good. Although Roland seems to fall behind the competition in the woodwind and orchestra/string categories. Okay, I'll stop for now regarding the sounds.
It's lightweight which is a plus for 76 keys. No after-touch which is disappointing. Although it can play .wav files which is a plus. But the LCD screen(s) are really cheesy in my opinion. The resolution is very low and the text is hard to read because of it. Also no Sampler which is a shame. No harmonizer either. You can't view lyrics from songs except through an external monitor which is another piece of equipment you have to have to experience something so basic and included on almost every other mid-range level keyboard. No onboard speakers either so you need an external sound system which is additional hardware at an additional cost. You also need an external harmonizer. Roland is touting the VE-20 which is almost $300 bucks. If you want a color screen you need an iPad which is another significant additional cost.
I hate to rain on people's parade but so far I'm less than thrilled. Roland should have gone all out but they choose instead to offer a mid-range sounding keyboard (at least from many of the sounds I've heard so far) which also has several missing arranger features e.g. no speakers, no harmonizer, no Sampler, no after-touch, cheesy LCD screen(s), etc., etc. and yet at a high-end price point. Good luck with that.
All the best, Mike
Edited by keybplayer (04/04/13 08:36 AM)
_________________________
Yamaha Genos, Mackie HR824 MKII Studio Monitors, Mackie 1202 VLZ Pro Mixer (made in USA), Cakewalk Sonar Platinum, Shure SM58 vocal mic.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#364355 - 04/04/13 09:01 AM
Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled
[Re: keybplayer]
|
Senior Member
Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5385
Loc: English Riviera, UK
|
This is supposed to be a Flagship arranger but it sounds more like a mid-range arranger to my ears. I think the Yammie PSR-s950 in many cases sounds better. Plus the cost is $2,500, and therefore, a person will probably think long and hard before forking over that kind of money for a less than stellar sound if you ask me. On the Roland Connect website there are two videos showcasing some of the sounds. I very much liked the organ sounds and the synth sound in the second video. The trumpet sounded somewhat unnatural but the sax was pretty good. Some of the guitars sounded pretty good also. The harmonica sound used in the youtube video, on the other hand, was rather thin sounding in my opinion.
This might be a case of a keyboard having many decent sounds but perhaps also many less than stellar sounds. In other words, a mixed bag. Of course I'll have to delay my final analysis until after I play the BK-9. The Soprano sax wasn't very good. I'm writing this as I listen to the streaming video on youtube. The grand piano sounds pretty good. Although Roland seems to fall behind the competition in the woodwind and orchestra/string categories. Okay, I'll stop for now regarding the sounds.
It's lightweight which is a plus for 76 keys. No after-touch which is disappointing. Although it can play .wav files which is a plus. But the LCD screen(s) are really cheesy in my opinion. The resolution is very low and the text is hard to read because of it. Also no Sampler which is a shame. No harmonizer either. You can't view lyrics from songs except through an external monitor which is another piece of equipment you have to have to experience something so basic and included on almost every other mid-range level keyboard. No onboard speakers either so you need an external sound system which is additional hardware at an additional cost. You also need an external harmonizer. Roland is touting the VE-20 which is almost $300 bucks. If you want a color screen you need an iPad which is another significant additional cost.
I hate to rain on people's parade but so far I'm less than thrilled. Roland should have gone all out but they choose instead to offer a mid-range sounding keyboard (at least from many of the sounds I've heard so far) which also has several missing arranger features e.g. no speakers, no harmonizer, no Sampler, no after-touch, cheesy LCD screen(s), etc., etc. and yet at a high-end price point. Good luck with that.
All the best, Mike
It’s a Flagship BK Arranger NOT a Flagship TOTL Arranger hence the price of £1699 which puts it firmly up against MOTL Arrangers (Yamaha S950 etc.) not TOTL Arrangers, so is good value for the market it is aimed at. Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#364372 - 04/04/13 12:19 PM
Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled
[Re: Dreamer]
|
Senior Member
Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 2417
Loc: CA
|
To be fair some of my criticism is premature and in some cases unwarranted. For instance, the price of the BK-9. $2,500 is a lot of dough but it's actually less than half the price of a Tyros4. And of course the BK-9 also has 76 keys which is preferable to many people. Although there is no after-touch as I stated previously. There are probably many excellent sounds on the BK-9. We heard a few already but we also heard some less than stellar sounds. Which gives the impression... right off the bat I might add... of a 'mixed bag' sound palette that could hinder its overall effectiveness as a live performance keyboard. Time will tell. Again, I like several things about the BK-9. I like the physical Drawbars. The sound apparently doesn't cut off when you change patches. I like that it has 76 keys and that it is very lightweight making it extremely portable. I like that it has micro-editing capability and an XLR mic input. But it also lacks several things considered vital to arranger keyboardists. No harmonizer, no speakers, no color LCD screen(s) and very low resolution, no on-board lyric display, no Sampler, no after-touch and perhaps sounds that could be 'iffy' in several categories. But regarding the overall sounds we'll have to wait until it hits the store shelves. I'm hoping some of these early sound demos are an anomaly. If 90% of the sounds are considered excellent then the high price of admission may be worth it. We should probably start seeing them sometime during the summer. Or winter if you're in the southern hemisphere.  At least Roland is making a concerted effort to satisfy the higher-end arranger market. Although claiming that the BK-9 is a high-end arranger could be stretching it a bit. It might be the Flagship of the BK series but the mother of all arrangers it's not. I think the Audya, Tyros4 and PA3X still hold those distinctions for now. I'm also guessing Yammie will probably pass on a Tyros4 successor until probably next year. Ketron also needs a successor to the aging Audya. No telling when that will be though. Hopefully they'll give it at least USB 2.0 next time around.  And more internal memory. And at a price that won't break the bank. Same goes for Yamaha. All the best, Mike
_________________________
Yamaha Genos, Mackie HR824 MKII Studio Monitors, Mackie 1202 VLZ Pro Mixer (made in USA), Cakewalk Sonar Platinum, Shure SM58 vocal mic.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#364399 - 04/05/13 05:55 AM
Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled
[Re: Dreamer]
|
Senior Member
Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
|
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#364400 - 04/05/13 05:58 AM
Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled
[Re: Dreamer]
|
Senior Member
Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
|
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#364401 - 04/05/13 05:59 AM
Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled
[Re: jamman]
|
Senior Member
Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5385
Loc: English Riviera, UK
|
Style programming and especially bass programming (lack of dynamics) is poor.Although drums samples themselves are not bad. What a shame. Great hardware/weight factor etc. Supernatural sounds still have alot of homework to do,No where near SA IMHO. Thay also need to hire someone who knows the strengths and weaknesses of the keyboard. As for now, Yamaha has nothing to worry about,YET! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3ndtpqaFpE Not a relevant comparison, the Yamaha was a recorded, processed and mastered demo, the Roland was a Live demo, play a Yamaha live (As was the Rolland) and you will find it sounds nothing like the recording. (Always compare apples with apples not oranges) Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#364403 - 04/05/13 06:20 AM
Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled
[Re: Dreamer]
|
Senior Member
Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15576
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
|
Bill, I wouldn't put money on that statement. We have several great players on this forum that played Yammies live, and the dynamics were incredible. Not at all impressed by the vids I've seen on this thread. Cheers, Gary
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!
K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#364416 - 04/05/13 08:42 AM
Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled
[Re: Dreamer]
|
Senior Member
Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15576
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
|
I agree. I would not base my assessment of an arranger keyboard on demos posted on YouTube or an other site, for that matter. However, as stated above, the dynamics just don't seem to be there, at least not to me. I may change my mind after hearing and playing the same model in a store. I base my assessments solely on MY first hand experiences - that's why I rarely change keyboards.
Cheers,
Gary
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!
K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#364420 - 04/05/13 10:09 AM
Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled
[Re: tony mads usa]
|
Senior Member
Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1162
Loc: Oradea, RO
|
the fact that some people will judge the keyboard based on what they see and hear on the Internet absolutely baffles me...how can you make a judgement without your hands, eyes, and ears being involved in the process... Some boards, such as the KORG, you even need to get home and play with a while before you know its true potential... Then how come Korg's demos are much better on the (same) internet?  Actually, when you "hear" more than "see" (by that I mean playing a keyboard in person) you could even be more objective...
_________________________
Yamaha S770, Studio One 3, EMU 0404USB, ESI, ATH, Dell. And others.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#364428 - 04/05/13 10:46 AM
Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled
[Re: adimatis]
|
Senior Member
Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9673
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
|
the fact that some people will judge the keyboard based on what they see and hear on the Internet absolutely baffles me...how can you make a judgement without your hands, eyes, and ears being involved in the process... Some boards, such as the KORG, you even need to get home and play with a while before you know its true potential... Then how come Korg's demos are much better on the (same) internet? Actually, when you "hear" more than "see" (by that I mean playing a keyboard in person) you could even be more objective... Hi Adi....What we hear on the internet is still subjective...What you think sounds great (Korg demo), may still sound less than great to me...I have the benefit of comparing sounds side by side.I have a BK5 and know what it sounds like in relationship to the new BK9..I know it will be at least the same sound and actually the added SuperNatural sounds will be a bonus.. The absense of a harmonizer, although I would like it onboard, for most will not be a no deal decision.. As opinions go, I do prefer Rolands sound over Korg...I always thought that Korg is too synthetic...yes there are some nice sounds, but they still have the same characteristics..I am not saying they are bad, just different than my preference...I find the more realistic sounds coming from Roland...Yamaha also has some great sounds...but only a few..across the board, most are not want I want.... As harmonizers go..Yamaha is still out to lunch, and Korg is highly overated(not because of the sound quality, but it is not versatile on stage as Roland's offering)....again...just opinion..and you can see how we all have different views.. If you like it...buy it.....If not....don't buy it and move on... Pessimistic comments about an online demo, will not help anyone make a good decision ..untill they try it (and more than ten minutes) I have had a lot of different brands and models to do side by side...so guess work is not in the equation 
Edited by Fran Carango (04/05/13 10:52 AM)
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#364432 - 04/05/13 11:01 AM
Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled
[Re: Dreamer]
|
Senior Member
Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1162
Loc: Oradea, RO
|
I agree with you completely. Sound is always a matter of taste.
But there's a truth in saying the demo we've seen on BK9 is less than breath taking.
To me, I like Korg sounds better, but I do prefer Roland styles - that is why I am curious and interested on this new offering.
The biggest mistery to me is why would they add the mic input, with reverb and all, but not the harmonizer... Or, why put the mic input if not onboard speakers?... Does not make sense to me. What is gained? You either have to take with you the VH box, or the amp speakers. Or more likely both. What is gained? Maybe they believe this was necessary so that people can record their voice together with the instrumental...
_________________________
Yamaha S770, Studio One 3, EMU 0404USB, ESI, ATH, Dell. And others.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#364438 - 04/05/13 12:23 PM
Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled
[Re: Dreamer]
|
Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14265
Loc: NW Florida
|
Either Roland's ad copy and brochure producers are incompetent, or their R&D team is.
So far, I've seen the R&D team make stupid decision after stupid decision, so I tend to assume that it is they who are the more likely to mess this up.
Don't forget, a similar kind of audio looper just got added to the VR-09 performance keyboard. Roland tend to use what is currently available on other keyboards rather than innovate for the arranger division.
And sorry, I don't honestly CARE 'where' the BK9 is designed. Those are the bozos that dropped the CS in the first place, and have brought out at least TEN arrangers since then without the feature on it... Hardly confidence inspiring. In fact, since the G1000 (and some of the G70's features) Roland have done NOTHING but go backwards ever since. Sure, the SOUNDS continue to improve (somewhat, most notably the drums and guitars), but I can give you a laundry list of incredible features Roland have DROPPED over the last 15 years or so. Let us hope that FOR ONCE, Roland have blundered in the other direction and forgotten to tell us about something they ADDED, rather than remain mute about what they dropped!
Roland's ad copy is usually pretty spot on. I'll be very happy if the Chord 'Looper' is actually a Chord 'Sequencer', but it seems quite a bad blunder to misunderstand its functions that wildly if you assume that most everything ELSE is correct.
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#364443 - 04/05/13 12:40 PM
Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled
[Re: Dreamer]
|
Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14265
Loc: NW Florida
|
Not too much buzz yet about the 'Audio Key' function. This strikes me as being functionally similar to the PSR S950's audio multipads... Except you can have seven of them (rather than four) and that they use keys rather than buttons to trigger.
So far, in the OFFICIAL ad copy, there's no mention of whether these are tempo synced and can loop (being able to loop would be a huge improvement over the S950's audio multipad feature). There's an awful lot of conjecture, but I am not coming off the fence until I see the manual (not out yet).
But, if Roland for once got it right, and had them loop and be synced, that's an incredible feature. Finally, the melding of audio loops and MIDI styles (noticed how Roland have mostly quit using 'styles' and are moving to saying 'rhythms' nowadays? LOL Wouldn't want to remind the kids about this being an 'arranger' now, would we?!). The .WAV's do get leaded in per Performance, so that's quite cool.
It's the little stuff flying under the radar that often turns out to be the game changer...
BTW, I know Ketron have been able to do this for a while, but it's new at this price point.
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#364475 - 04/05/13 05:51 PM
Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled
[Re: Dreamer]
|
Senior Member
Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15576
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
|
Not yet, Donny. I have to put some money into the bank before I can start taking it out again. Still paying for the trip home, which was about $800 for gasoline alone. Add to that the cost of food, overnight stays at various marinas, booze, etc..., and it all adds up to the price of a couple new keyboards. I'm not in a hurry - that's for young people. Gary
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!
K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#364477 - 04/05/13 07:27 PM
Re: Roland BK-9 unveiled
[Re: Dreamer]
|
Senior Member
Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
|
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Great job ROLAND ....they will sell thousands of these units world wide for sure... 
Glad to see them back in the mix. Don't let the demos fool you just a short time ago people were blasting the KORG Pa3x demos when released also only to NOW enjoy all it's attributes. As everyone knows out of the box factory setting need to be edited and tweaked to perfection for the individual player....so why not give the BK9 a chance to breath and open its wings in a few months as the masses get a real chance to give it a go and then I'm sure we will hear many wonderful things form this new release. I can't wait to play one myself down the road. 
Previous Topic
Index