I heard it through the grapevine that Yammie will release a Tyros4 successor later this year. No telling if they actually yanked the Tyros name and will call it something else. Although, the reliability of the source has not been substantiated. If the information is correct then Roland will only have a limited time in the spotlight before Yamaha overshadows the BK-9 (and everything else) with its new monster arranger keyboard lurking around the corner.

Yammie might showcase it at Musikmesse or at summer NAMM or in a worse case scenario at winter NAMM 2014 (perhaps leaked to the public before year's end e.g. holidays, etc.... in the run up to winter NAMM 2104. The source said before the end of the year so I'm guessing it might be released at summer NAMM.

Let me veer off topic if I may. Roland did a huge disservice to the public regarding the BK-9's measly 160 x 160 screen resolution in my opinion. And on top of it you end up paying $2,700 (after tax) for a BK-9 and the LCD screens aren't even in color. FWIW, I paid roughly $2,500 for my Fantom G7 (76 keys) back in 2008 and it has a huge 8.5 inch high resolution LCD screen with beautiful color. You'd think for $2,500 ($2,700 after tax) Roland should've given it full color and higher resolution. Nope.

Why I'm mentioning the BK-9 is because Roland has really limited themselves in the high end arranger market in my opinion. Whether the BK-9 is actually a high end arranger keyboard is also debatable. By omitting several higher end arranger features and functions from the BK-9, Roland is basically shooting themselves in the foot if you ask me. I think the blatant oversight regarding the dual LCD screens is because Roland wants you to buy (and use) an iPad to see 'in color' because the big wigs at Roland Japan probably have a ton of money in Apple stock. It's just a theory but it makes sense. The more iPads Apple sells the more the big wigs at Roland Japan profit. It might be marketing genius (from Roland's perspective) but the customer gets shafted in the process obviously. I hate to break it to Roland and company but not everyone owns an iPad. Perhaps 98 percent (or more) of the world's population doesn't own one either! I hate to be so cynical but I'm just trying to put two and two together. Roland wants people to shell out big bucks for an iPad if they don't already own one. That in itself could severely harm BK-9 sales in my humble opinion. Who wants to use a BK-9 with 160 x 160 (fuzzy) LCD screens you can barely read? Therefore a person is almost forced into shelling out up to $500.00 (or more) for that privilege. So instead of paying $2,700 (after tax) for a BK-9 you end up paying well over 3 grand. And Roland laughs all the way to the bank. For arranger keyboardists who don't already own an iPad (yes me... and 98% (or more) of the world's population I might add) it could be a bridge too far. And in my case it probably is.

When you purchase a keyboard you expect it to be "fully" capable from the get go. The LCD screen is just one of many important aspects of any keyboard and if you are forced to fork over additional big bucks (just in order to see what you're doing and to navigate the keyboard menu's) it is a huge roadblock that could prevent people from purchasing the BK-9 in my opinion. Thus the "shooting themselves in the foot" analogy.

That's why I'm excited about Yammie's new monster arranger keyboard lurking around the corner. Ready to pounce on the competition no doubt too. Including the half-baked BK-9, which will likely get "squashed" in the ensuing battle. Sad, but probably true.

Hey! I want Roland to succeed! The more competition there is the better! But for whatever reason Roland chose restraint instead of bold initiative and the result could be overall dismal sales of the BK-9. If Roland had upped the ante, instead of doing business as usual, they probably would have sold like hotcakes. Mounds and mounds of purchases on what could have been a hot ticket item. But instead, Roland gave what I think is a 'tepid' offering that many people might pass on because of its lack of features, functions and especially because of those silly, low resolution, monochrome LCD screens that you can barely read. Unless you own an iPad.

I don't own an iPad or any other Apple product and I will probably "pass" on the BK-9. My only concern is that when the new Godzilla from Yamaha appears the price could reach into the upper stratosphere (much like the Tyros4), and thereby, possibly limiting the sales of their new arranger to mostly the oil sheiks of Saudi Arabia and/or the Bill Gates and Warren Buffet's of the world. I'm willing to pay up to $4,000 (or thereabouts), and therefore, Yamaha has probably priced me (and most of the world population) out of buying one. When will they ever learn? If you severely limit the market you ultimately harm your own bottom line. Although Yammie and the others probably don't like to flood the market with excellent high-end, competitively priced products, since doing so could end up being a production nightmare costing tons of money in employee related factory work and in overtime pay. Therefore they limit production and charge an "arm and leg" in a typical "cost vs. performance" operation that yields 'big rewards' while at the same time limiting excessive cost overruns. Bill Gates of the world rejoice! Saudi Arabia oil sheiks of the Middle East rejoice! 98 percent of the world's population... not so much. PS: Sorry for the long-winded post. Although just think of all the exercise your eye muscles are getting.

All the best, Mike

But ANY Yamaha arranger will not have 76 keys, so who cares??!!

Apparently an external R&D company (Department of Heuristics and Research on Material Applications) are developing a completely new sound engine and OS based on a recently discovered 1930s theoretical paper by Laurens Hammond. Its likely going to be 2014 before any official release though as a problem with the sound engine means that it has to be reset manually every 108 minutes.

Just more rumors...BK9...will sell like.hotcakes in this economy.

For the price of the Bk-9 why not buy a PA600 and a 88 key midi controller? you´ll get a better deal in my opinion, or get 2 Pa600´s .

Tonewheeldude:

Nice reference the the TV Show "Lost"

Glad someone got it Joesax

most of the time my humour goes over everyones heads.

I have seen this Roland BK 9 for 1850 Euro. I find that a good deal. Better then pay 3700 Euro for a Tyros or whatever monster keyboard Yamaha will come out with.

You're probably right. Yammie's new high-end arranger will likely have only 61 keys. That is a possible deal breaker but if the key action is superb then I might overlook the lack of keys. My big concern is the price. Yamaha keeps raising their prices and if they're not careful they could price themselves right out of the marketplace. My original Tyros was $2,499. That was 10 years ago. In ten years Yamaha has more than doubled the price and when you think about it you're not really getting much more than what the original Tyros included. Oh sure, you're getting more mega voices and super articulated voices and audio recording and a few other odds and ends but it's still basically a Tyros. I said I'd pay $4,000 or thereabouts all things considered. But if it really is the bees knees I might be willing to pay up to $5,000. I've got a $5,000 line of credit at Guitar Center and they offer a 12 month and sometimes an 18 month 'no interest' deal. I can live with 61 keys as long as it has an octave shift and superb key action. But my guess is Yamaha will raise the price above $5,000 again (like the Tyros4) and if it doesn't include 14 carat gold plated keys I'll definitely pass.

All the best, Mike

Yes FransN. The BK-9 is offered at a much better price than the new Tyros no doubt. Although I'm unwilling to spend $500 or more on an iPad to use in conjunction with the BK-9. I feel it is was manipulative marketing practice by Roland and company and in my opinion a keyboard should be able to stand on its own without unnecessary add-ons that raise the price. Besides the sound quality on the BK-9 has yet to be determined. Some of sounds from the demos didn't thrill me. I'll wait until I can play one firsthand though. If the LCD screen(s) aren't as bad they seem and if the key action is really good and most of the sounds are excellent then I might get one.

All the best, Mike

I have already said I believe the BK9 is really a MOTL arranger. An upper end MOTL, to be sure, but some of the features are pretty unique, and as it is 76, if it HAD a 61 version, it would be priced fairly close to Yamaha's MOTL S950.

I am not sure why people want to compare the BK9 to a T4. Unless they want to make themselves feel better as a Yamaha user!

Mind you, let's face it... Is what you get (or far more to the point, what you USE of what you get) worth another $2000-2500? In other words, do you get TWICE the arranger? You don't even get the same number of keys!

BTW, for all of you that have been down on 76 note arrangers because of the weight, here's one that bucks the trend. Lighter than a 61!

Overall, as far as the display goes, yes... An inferior display to Yamaha's S950. Oh, wait a minute - TWO displays The jury is out yet on whether two not so great displays is more useful than one higher resolution color one. Particularly when NEITHER of them are touch screens. I can think of quite a few useful things I could do given a choice of what get displayed.

I know I'm spit-balling here, but perhaps the lack of a touch screen, the lack of the high end keybed, VH, and a an extra UPR and LWR Part leave Roland with the option to come out with a REAL TOTL arranger at closer to the usual TOTL price (mind you, that would probably still be lower than Yamaha's amazingly inflated Tyros price point) if the market picks up?

And finally, nobody that researches the issue would ever consider an iPad as a viable alternative to a touch screen. Roland's software is barebones at best, and not a substitute in ANY sense of the word for a real touchscreen.

Meanwhile, of course, the BK's still have a punchy, live sound that even Yamaha's inflatedly priced TOTL arranger can only dream of.

Well if anyone is willing to pay $5000 for a Tyros 4, let me know and I'll buy a as many as you want and sell them to you!
That's not even close to what you can buy them for.
But I agree they are still pretty high.
I can't understand how you can form a real opinion on keyboards that are not even being produced yet, as BK9!
Look at just the specs and hype and Fran's Mediastation is the absolute best!
DonM

I have a Tyros 3 and a Motif XF6. Since getting the Motif I no longer use styles for my compositions because the Motif in general sounds better ( more Lively ) especially the Drums. I originally paid $3K for the T3. I've thought about selling it but am held captive by the SA and SA2 Voices for Tenor Sax, Jazz Trumpet, Classical Guitar, Nylon Guitar, Classical Flute, Harmonica. I just cannot get close to those sounds on the Motif and I haven't yet heard their equal on other Arrangers. But I have to say while those specific voices are wonderful by themselves the overall sound of the Motif is much better. I will give some consideration to the BK-9 as a replacement for the T3 when more demos are available.

Joe

Yeah I realize the Tyros4 can be had for less than $5 grand Don. Although Guitar Center is currently asking $5,299.00 on their website. In the stores a Tyros4 can be bartered down considerably if you know how to haggle with the employees. It also helps to be a 'good' customer if you know what I mean. I've bought thousands of dollars worth of equipment from Guitar Center over the years and I could probably pick up the Tyros4 on the cheap. If $4,000 is considered cheap that is.

What can I say? I realize I'm being hard on Roland but I don't discriminate. I let them all have it if I think they really have it coming. I'm a consumer advocate and If I had to choose a career again I think I would have done quite well as an employee for the Department of Consumer Affairs.

Keyboard companies are in business to make a profit. No big deal right? They should not be in business to "gouge" consumers or to participate in dubious business practices that negatively affect the ethic commonality expected from the business community as a whole. In other words, shady business practices harm not only the company that resorts to using them but it can also affect the reputation of the business community as a whole, as consumers start to lose confidence in the standards that are normally required by companies to protect both the consumer and the range of products companies sell.

I own several products from Roland currently. I have a Fantom G7 (76 key), a Sonic Cell sound module and also Sonar Producer 8.5 which Roland bought out i.e. Cakewalk, a few years ago. If Roland messes up (which I believe they did regarding the BK-9 as far as the lackluster monochrome LCD screens and the necessity of buying (and using) an iPad in order to see the menu's in color, when most consumers don't own an iPad for Roland's information) and thus adds a significant cost increase to a keyboard that should be able to stand on its own without frivolous add-on's that needlessly burden consumers who don't own an iPad. It's a case of Roland trying to hoodwink people into buying something they shouldn't be required to buy just in order to effectively navigate the BK-9 menu's and/or the OS in general. 160 x 160 pixels on an LCD is last Century (1980's) technology that gives the perception Roland cares more about selling iPads than they do about customer satisfaction on the products they sell.

I've also been hard on Yammie, Korg, Ketron and Casio. Casio has made some remarkable progress in the last few years, and therefore, most of my discussion about Casio is positive of late. I'm not a respecter of companies. If a company provides excellent products and services I commend their efforts and I tout their products and in many cases I end up buying products from those companies. When a company takes a turn for the worse... you know who you are I let them know about it and I admit I usually don't pull any punches. In other words, I try to speak in a way that will hopefully catch the attention of the company in question so that hopefully changes can be made in future releases.

A keyboard forum such as Synthzone really doesn't reach a huge audience but occasionally keyboard company executives have been known to frequent Synthzone and other keyboard forums on occasion. At least that's what Steve Deming of Yamaha U.S. was quoted as saying a few years ago. Although talking to Yamaha is like talking to a brick wall. Nothing seems to get through. It's nothing personal of course and if any other company acted in a similar fashion they would get a similar critique. It's not Steve Deming's fault as we know. He relays various information to the head honchos who ultimately relay some of that information to the executives at Yamaha Japan and they ultimately make the final decisions. Such as refusing to produce a quality 76 key high end arranger that roughly half of all keyboard players actually prefer, and so forth.

I know Korg representatives check in on occasion and of course Ketron representatives do as well. By the way, I think I drove Domenico of Lionstracs away. I apologize to him if he still peruses the site. Sometimes my words are conveyed in such a way that they don't translate very well online. My words can sometimes get misconstrued or taken out of context as can all of ours. Being unable to speak face to face has its limitations needless to say. What I'm trying to say is I have a big heart and nothing I write online should be taken personally. You thought I was going to say 'seriously' right? In some cases that's true also. We're supposed to be one big happy family correct? Although try telling that to Fran and Donny. Just kidding!

Now where was I? Oh yeah. Roland has distanced themselves from their user base except on the rarest of occasions. Once in a blue moon type of thing. Other than that you nary hear a peep from Roland and company. Which I believe negatively affects their company persona. If a company essentially refuses to interact and communicate with customers online it diminishes the effectiveness of that companies bottom line in my opinion. Which could be the main reason why Roland has lost money 'hand over fist' over the last few years. And also because the products they've produced of late have been in some instances just so so in my opinion. Mediocre comes to mind. And for what it's worth so too has Yamaha's music division lost money 'hand over fist' recently. Which could also be attributed to the downturn in the world economy. Since most people now have less money to 'burn' on keyboards or products in general. Except Fran and Donny it seems. Oops! Another lengthy post. I'll try and limit them from now on. Cheers everyone!

All the best, Mike