Ok, I finally have the next release of PianoCheetah up.

If somebody could help me out and record their arranger keyboard for, oh, let's say 3 bars of about 6 chord changes or so, well, that'll get me started on what EXACTLY to record so I can send back the right stuff when you go from record to play mode.

So when ya have time, hit http://PianoCheetah.com
click the download button
save the SETUP_PIANOCHEETAH.exe somewhere and run it.
Hit the install button, then you'll be thrown into my
MidiConfiger program - put your arranger keyboard at the top of the list of midi input devices.
(Playing the keyboard will move it to the top of the list).


Find ReChord in the Start menu under PianoCheetah. Currently it just records every dang midi event (excluding sysex) from that top midiin device of MidiConfiger. (as soon as you start ReChord) and put it all in a c:\ReChord.txt file when you exit.

Then if you could attach that file in an email to me - stephen.hazel@gmail.com
Oh, please include your keyboard model.

Thanks much

...Steve

Hmmmm, pretty quiet.

I can't write a chord sequencer without seeing what an arranger keyboard generates...

If you're interested in a (probably free) chord sequencer, you'll need to hit http://PianoCheetah.com and download and install and run the Start/PianoCheetah/ReChord program; play 3 bars of chords; exit the program and send me your c:\ReChord.txt file pleeeeease

If you have any troubles, email me stephen.hazel@gmail.com

In the mean time, I'm workin on making my leadsheet+.STY=>background tracks thingy easier to deal with.

...Steve

Hi Steve...NP

Only just noticed this post - I will knock something out for you in a sec

Dennis

You do realise that all arrangers send the arranger data over different channels for each part, yes?

So you program will nee d to be able to record either MIDI Omni, or be set up to record all 16 channels simultaneously...

No worries (yet:)
ReChord currently records all channels from the top input device picked in my MidiConfiger program.

thanks much

...Steve

Stephen, I'm pretty sure what you should be recording is what Roland refers to as the "NTA" (Note To Arranger.) These are the notes played in the chord recognition area of the keyboard which are interpreted as input by the logic engine.

For example, a I vi ii V7 progression, two bars in 4/4 time might be: C2-E2-G2 (for two beats), C2-E2-A2 (for two beats), C2-D2-F2-A2 (for two beats), and (D2-F2-G2-B2) for two beats. Presumably the arranger would interpret this as C major, A minor, D minor 7th, and G7.

What exactly comes out of the style tracks depends on the style and what was initially recorded. Hope this helps. -Ted

Thanks Ted,

I kinda get that part.
I'd just like to see how the midi clock messages come across, too.

I think I'll need to use them to calc tempo, and make sure I'm in sync with beat #1 when ya hit play after recording.

Ok, I think I've figured out how to sync to the arranger keyboard's clock. And I guess I'm just gonna record the chord picking notes off one picked channel, play em back on that same channel in a loop, (and clear it all out).

I'd still like to get a ReChord.txt file and look at the details. I think Dennis is workin on that, but is running into PianoCheetah bugs which I'm furiously trying to stomp.


So let me take a step back and ask about arranger keyboards in general:

1) Since styles have to be at least a bar long, I'm guessing that you really have to adjust your playing so that YOU stay sync'd to the keyboard's master time, right? You can't really "lead" and mess with rubato?

2) You have freedom to chord change at any time, but during the keyboard's recognition phase, notes CAN glitch out and are "tweaked" in real time to adjust to the right notes of final recognized chord?

3) I'm curious how often you change the chord sequence live in a song. Can you think back on the majority of songs you play and tell me if you ever change the chord progression much for a given song? Maybe looping a chorus an extra time would be useful... But how often are you changing the main chord progression of the song you're playing?


I think I'll try to get a VERY basic chord sequencer working as a proof of concept. This will be messy enough with no dang arranger keyboard. After that's done, I'd like to take a step back, and try to solve some of the "not as live as I'd like" problems inherent in style players. (That'd be the longer run, of course).


I'm thinkin a conversion program to turn a .STY into a .MID with particular markers and conventions that make it directly editable in any midi editor. These will be the background tracks and follow your live played velocity. (as you play the melody from quiet to loud, the style tracks' note velocities are scaled the same).

What styles are really doing is arpeggiating chords. They sound like regular background music, but you're -actually- picking when to use the 1,3,5,7,(etc) of the chord of whatever chord type. So another component will be a program to make crazy wild (hopefully musical) arpeggio arrangements jammed into a style-LIKE midi file.

And finally, there's a "main song" you are gonna play live that says "use this list of midi styles as my background". It's got the keysig, timesig, and song sections(intro,verse,trans1,chorus,bridge,coda) with their component chord progressions.

But the main thing it has is the notes you plan on playing live in a single (maybe 2 for LH,RH) track. Just the "to play live" notes are shown on screen.

As you play them, the song position moves showing where you are. Since the sequencer knows where you are, you can play with rubato and time will keep sync with YOU. This will consequently force the style events in the background to follow your rubato. As you play this "lead track" song, you can have options like "play this section again" to loop a chorus an extra time, etc. And a "swap to background loop X" to pick a new style/arpeggio. This is just me typin' out loud and shootin my mouth off (for now). But it seems possible and might be pretty cool.

If you could give me your answers to 1) 2) 3) above and lemme know if you think I'm on the right track, that'd be cool.

...Steve

Regarding your questions 1) and 2): On most modern arrangers, it IS possible to play rubato and trigger a syncopated chord. How cleanly it comes off depends on the model, and also the notes recorded in the style. For more insight, search my other posts with regard to the "batching" of chord input and the "retrigger" parameter.

On some of its latest models Yamaha has included something called "free play styles" with no drum track and a very subtle rhythm to facilitate this type of play.

3) I'm not a songwriter. Heck I'm not really a musician! I have noticed chord progressions repeating but it varies from song to song. That being said, I agree with Diki that being able to record a chord progression and play it back in real time is a highly useful feature.

Thanks TedS, I'll go a'searchin