I would say for operational simplicity, the spacebar to start recording and second tap to start playback would be optimal, then maybe return (or something easy to get to) for Stop of the loop...

I don't think that any CS's ever had input quantization. They basically left it up to you to be accurate enough. Might be nice as an option (with 1/4 through 1/16th resolution), but on the whole, not really important.

The Korg one from memory does to a degree Diki...Well I certainly do not recall any timing glitches with the times I used it, and my timing isn't THAT good

I agree that for the most part it would be un-necessary but might be a boon to some ?

D

All chord recognition divides its recognition into specific windows. Some to the 1/8th, some to the 1/16th, etc.. But to my knowledge, there's no quantization done to it. You either get it right (and most of us do with no input quantization) or, if you get it wrong the first time, every CS subsequent iteration of the loop had the same exact 'glitch'.

With the problem of syncopated chord changes and variable swing values, I'm not sure exactly how a CS could ever recognize a glitch if it saw one...

The quantization is useful if you are using the CS to generate SMF Parts to be further edited in a sequencer, because you could stop and edit those at your convenience. But during a performance, It's going to be hard to tell a CS in advance what quant value and swing factor you are going to need.

From an early look at the BK-9 manual, it seems some post editing to the CS might be possible, to generate SMF sections for song construction (not 100% sure yet, though) without the tiny glitches in, and if stephen.hazel can manage a simple 'record CS' and 'Load CS' in SMF form, some easy editing might be possible.

But live input quantization I am sure could be left off until the project is working, and more advanced features thought of...

BTW, Dennis, there's a big difference between 'heard' and 'unheard' glitches. Most arrangers have a system where the part can receive the wrong chord (and that's what gets sent to the NTA's) but a split second (millisecond) later the correct one gets played late.

Most of them bend instantly the 'wrong' note to be the right note, or play the right note with poly portamento of zero speed (so that envelopes don't get re-triggered) and you are hard pressed to hear anything at all.

Of course, the problem comes when you export said sequence to a DAW, and there are a plethora of tiny little one tick notes, and codes for portamento and new notes with 0 velocity (or whatever system each arranger uses) cluttering up your key and list editors, and making cut and paste a dangerous thing if so much as one of these little code notes get missed... They can be quite a PITA to edit. Here's where post-quantization of the CS would eliminate them all. But I see it as more an offline process than anything that might be practical in live usage.

From years of using CS's live, I always knew to tighten up and concentrate a bit harder on that LH during the CS record cycle. Which, given that you usually lay it down BEFORE you solo your brains out, was never a huge deal..!

Diki to comment on your last post... I always found a lot of "one tick notes" in the quick (multi track) recordings I made on my Yamaha. The worst is when you don't get the lowest note down first, it sounds like the bass player screwed up! However, at least on my old Pa50 it appeared that Korg was "batching" the chord input. In other words, when I pressed the a note in the chord area it started a logic process where it waits and listens for additional notes for about 25-30 milliseconds. It then sounds the chord based on whatever keys are depressed at the end of that time period. So you're ok as long as you get all of the constituent notes down within about .02 seconds of the first one. You can release unwanted notes too. Thus you have an opportunity to correct your mistakes before they get "on paper."

In a direct comparison this approach feels a little less responsive, but you quickly adjust the timing of your chord input by "leading" the beat a bit more. The result sounds better because there are no smeary portamento sounds, and the recorded score was absolutely clean!

The best of all worlds would be to use Korg's approach but to make the length of this "Note to Arranger input window" *user-adjustable* from zero (real time, limited only by processor speed) to about 50 or 60 ms. (Personally I've never seen a piece where there were more than four chord changes in a measure!)

Stephen maybe your program will be the first one to embrace this feature. Good luck in your endeavor. -Ted

I found that using Pianostyle chord recognition does the best job of avoiding the 'glitches', as the arranger won't even TRY to play a chord until three notes have actually been played (it's usually guessing until the third one goes down in most other systems!). And 'Intelligent' or One Finger systems are the worst, as the arranger might see the root first, decide it's a major chord, then when it sees the minor 3rd, it will then glitch to that. Or whatever you end up playing...

Yes, leading by a hair is optimal, but hard to pull off and lay back the RH. Might be why most arranger user demos always sound a hair 'rushed'. Tough to anticipate with the left hand, but drag and sit back with the right!

TBH, whenever I prepare arranger output for sequencing and subsequent additional work, I always play the tune in full piano mode, as a full but simple piano part. That way, any inversions get played, and I can concentrate fully on simply having both hands push a tiny fraction, sit 'up' on the beat, and avoid most of the glitches...

Then I can add other parts and sounds, and do the solos, in the pocket that best works, independent of what my LH chording had to do.

I think most arrangers now try to do a 1/16th recognition of chord input syncopation... perhaps this might change to a 1/8th at very high tempos (be nice if they did, anyway!), so at a brisk tempo, you had better be on it anyway!

So do any of you folks have a midi sequencer that'll record all notes and timing events for a period of time?

So I get can get a midi recording of what's coming in?

If not, I'll start on this weird recorder/playerbacker thingy and just have it start off recording any dang thing coming in, without playback for now. Then once I know what to parse out and sync to, I'll add in the playbacker.

A midi recording would get me started faster.
I expect I can get a record-everything-er done in a week or 2. We'll seeeee.

As a new guy, let me just say that I'm glad I found this place.

I mean, I've been on pianoworld.com and although there are a TON of keyboard players there, I'd almost come to the conclusion that they just don't use midi. I'd say at LEAST 90% of those folk are totally afraid of midi and want nothing to do with it.

This place restores my faith in humanity

Well, I'm making pretty good progress.

I can throw styles through a blues lead sheet of chords and
it comes out pretty decent.

I see some weird really high and really low notes in the results, though.
I see some C9 notes in some styles.
Umm, that's too high for the piano, what the heck are those??

Could just be a bug, though.
I might have somethin for yall to play with by Sun. We'll see.

So do bass tracks and phrase tracks follow the chord note adjustments, too?
Or are they straight transpose to chord root only?

Thanks,

...Steve

Program name will beeeeeeeeeee......


ReChord.


(sorry )