Yeah, I realize that most audiences don't care if it's a new model arranger or a 15 year old arranger ready for the Smithsonian, if the sounds are adequate. But they probably do care (if they're a discriminating bunch) if the sound is particularly sub-par. In other words, if a 15 year old arranger sounds fairly decent then yes the audience will probably be happy. And if a new arranger has a piano that sounds like a Steinway Concert Grand and an organ that sounds like a real B3 (or close to it) and a string section that sounds like a real orchestra then I think the audience would be even happier.

The G1000 was a great arranger in its hey day but I'm guessing Fran will scoop up a BK-9 once it hits store shelves. And I wouldn't blame him. The BK-9 has some drawbacks e.g. low resolution LCD screen(s) that may in fact cause many people to pass on the BK-9. Plus it doesn't have a vocal harmonizer although aftermarket harmonizers are all the rage and vastly superior to the on-board harmonizers which is unfortunate. You'd think Yammie and the rest of them would have the ability and know-how to produce an excellent sounding harmonizer for their arrangers but so far that hasn't been the case. The Korg PA3X probably has the best on-board harmonizer but I've heard complaints that it too falls short. But I digress.

Entertaining an audience is essential and a top priority needless to say. I prefer superb sounds in today's arrangers because I think it "adds" to the entire package. That is to say, entertainment value, sound system, good vocals (if you sing), good beat (lively atmosphere) are all important, and if at all possible superb instrument sounds that make you sound like a real band that's even better. As opposed to a not so real sounding band from a possibly not very good sounding arranger. Although you get a bunch of senior citizens together - God bless them - where many of them potentially have a significant amount of hearing loss and likely wouldn't care whether its a low-end Casio or a Tyros4 etc., because a lot of the sonic headroom and realism (high/low frequencies and everything in between) would be diminished in the ears of the audience because of that notorious hearing loss. In other words, if you play exclusively at senior centers then sound realism is not as important to the audience. If you play to a younger audience that can truly appreciate all the nuances of superb instrument sounds you might want to invest in something more suitable to that particular audience. Or risk large amounts of red ripe tomatoes being thrown in your direction. Or so the theory goes.

All the best, Mike

Mike, I hear what you are saying but I personally feel the older audience appreciates realistic sounds more than the younger ones. Most of the younger set are accustomed to hearing highly processed music, complete with lots of synth sounds and tightly compressed drum samples.
I'm technically old enough to be in a nursing home, and have excellent hearing in spite of so many years of performing. There may be a very slight loss of extreme highs, but if there is, I can't hear it.
DonM

My hearing is shot to Hell, but I have to agree with Don. The older audiences are not only appreciative of the sounds, but additionally, they're not just folks in a nursing home or retirement community. The resort area Tiki Bars are filled to capacity with older folks, individuals ranging 65 to 90 years of age. They're the ones with the money, they love to party, and a lot of them have the attitude "I worked for it, I'm gonna spend it! Let the kids fend for themselves." A good entertainer with a Tyros-2, G-1000, PSR-3000, G-70, etc..., someone who can read an audience and play what they want to hear, can have all the work they wish. There are a lot of incredible musicians out there, guys who can play circles around the best of us on the forum, but most are not entertainers. That's why DNJ, DonM, and many of us on this forum perform 300 to 500 times a year. That's why it's called Show Biz!

Cheers,

Gary

Ever since technology caught up with my own creativity, I make sure to do at least 2-3 "bare" arrangements with just my 2 hands and voice. I shut all the automation off and pound out a tune like "Desperado", or "New York State of Mind" on straight piano .... I want them to KNOW that I'm still at the helm!

You could be right Don. Today's younger generation has grown up on compressed MP3 but when I said "a younger crowd" I was basically referring to boomers in the age bracket of 45 to 65 since they remember vinyl records, which of course was an uncompressed format. Boomers have also experienced a lot of live music through the years and as a result are especially appreciative of sonic quality. But I also think people in their 20's and 30's appreciate realistic sound too because they have experienced many improvements in audio quality in recent years with the advent of the CD and DVD.

You're right also in that a lot of senior citizens i.e. those between the ages of 75 and 120 don't experience significant amounts of hearing loss. Unfortunately many of them do and that could be a hindrance to fully enjoying that brand new BK-9 or other high-end superb sounding arranger keyboard. Whereas, boomers would enjoy them to no end in most cases.

I guess my point is that people would rather hear the "real thing" regarding instrument sounds if they had their choice. A fifteen year old arranger wouldn't be able to offer the "realism" that today's high-end arrangers offer. Therefore, to people with discriminating tastes in music (sound), keyboard players might want to invest in a higher-end arranger in order to satisfy those that have discriminating tastes. Which is likely the majority of the world's population who actually do appreciate the finer things in music. A tinker toy arranger can't really provide such an experience in my humble opinion. Although a Roland E300 isn't necessarily in the category of tinker toy. Don't worry Fran I'm not talking about your beloved G1000 either.

All the best, Mike

I do exactly the same thing, Dave, with straight guitar (no sequences) and straight piano.

Works for me!

Russ

Mike you do know my G1000 is long gone?

The G70 out did it, and the G1000 went to a new home

I would like to do the same...but with the band..they need the sound like the record tracks..

Rarely will you see me playing arranger mode..band or solo..I will basically use a strip down style if I do, or just the drums..and sometimes bass with drums..

You won't catch me using factory one touch settings..ever

I mentioned often..I want the same band members for every tune..

Sometimes I wish we could roll back to the 80's and earlier...when we played what we wanted to hear..a few layers, bass drums and a pedal to add our colors...and the hot young lady out front..(singer)

I think the bottom line is, if you entertained them with those older arrangers when they were new, you can STILL entertain them now with exactly the same gear. Their expectation of realism hasn't changed.

The truth is, 99% of our 'need' for newer arrangers comes from impressing ourselves, not any particular audience.

Now, I know I play a bit better when I have a great, expressive piano rather than some one dimensional early Sound Canvas type piano sound, but the truth is, it's rarely enough that the audience can tell the difference. I am satisfying myself a lot more than any actual need.

I'm probably going to get a BK-9... but I'm not getting it to 'sound' better. I'm getting it because of the Chord Sequencer. If it wasn't for that, my G70 would still be my #1 choice. And yes, certain things in the BK-9 will sound a hair better. But I guarantee my audience will not care one iota.

Sometimes you have to step back and ask yourself... If you are already working how you want to, will the latest, greatest alter that at all? The truth is, probably not. So figure out WHO is benefiting from spending a bunch of money on something that is probably only an incremental improvement over what you already have, and is doing the job just fine!

It's probably only you...

Oh that's right. I've been out of the loop for quite a while here at the Synthzone and I now recall you did sell it a while back Fran.

The G70 is a very decent arranger although it's getting a little long in the tooth. I really think the BK-9 sounds a lot better than the G70 although what we've heard so far of the BK-9 is just the internet demos and they can sometimes be deceiving.

Again, the goal is perfecting sound realism so that keyboards sound identical (or as close as possible) to the real deal. People enjoy the sound of a Stradivarius more so than they would enjoy the sound of a generic violin. When sounds don't accurately represent real instruments people have a tendency to question their authenticity. What is that you're playing?? A guitar? You could have fooled me!

A trumpet sound needs to sound like a real trumpet in order for people to distinguish what instrument you are attempting to play. Low end arrangers (and many mid-range arrangers) miss the mark in many cases and people are smart enough to recognize a real sounding instrument from a vague representation. I want people to hear the best possible representation of any given instrument sound because it enhances the whole experience and the audience in my opinion is more appreciative of an excellent sounding performance than they are of a mediocre experience where the sounds don't accurately represent the real deal.

I admit even high-end keyboards still have quite a ways to go in many cases to capture exact representation of real instruments. But they are advancing in sound quality and in sound realism and that's encouraging.

The G70 is fine for Senior centers and other venues. You won't see a G70 in a professional setting though. By that I mean at a big name concert venue or on TV for that matter. Hopefully the stigma attached to arrangers will disappear soon and in the near future we may indeed see professional quality high-end arrangers in professional settings being played by big name bands. I'm really looking forward to that day.

All the best, Mike