Thing is, navigation on the Integra is going to be no better than the BK. Sure, hook it up to a PC, maybe things get a bit better. But sub-menus are going to be a way of life for it. I sure wouldn't want to get stuck needing to do something to it on stage!

If you aren't really into arrangers much any more, yeah... time to look elsewhere (I kind of like the KingKorg VA for the price).

Mind you, linking arrangers and live loops and the CS offer possibilities that Roland have never had before, and I haven't had the time to dig into that much yet. Naturally, my responses are going to focus on the way I use an arranger NOW, rather than how I'll be using it in future. And, as I said, I tend to use even my G70 with everything ready to go for most songs in a solo or duo situation.

I am just frustrated that what could be Roland's finest live keyboard ever has been crippled by the shortsighted screen issue.

I'd still give the BK-9 a play, if you get the opportunity, Dennis. Just for that ballsy Hammond, if nothing else! And, compared to the 73 Nord Stage, it offers SO much more (with the exception of the VA section), at $1500+ less! At least the Hammond and Piano section has most everything you need at the top level...

Okay - yeah point taken Maybe if you get time, write a small piece on how you find it after say two or three months?

I am a bit over arrangers per se, not necessarily the tools they give though. But at the moment I am really digging the return to fun playing BIAB and the Real tracks all audio stuff is giving me. No more worrying about HAVING to play as et number of notes at any time, and some of the audio guitar comping on BIAB is pretty damn nice! Not as good as a real axe-man, but way WAY better than anything ANY arranger can throw up. JMO!!!!

Back to the -9 ....perchance a longer view would give a better picture

Cheers bud,

Dennis

I'm trying my best to balance the good news with the bad..!

Naturally, it's easiest to focus on what were the best things in my G70, and instantly notice their loss. But there are many things already in the BK-9 which outperform the G70 I have noticed. The sound IS fuller, particularly in the bass section (I needed an SRX board before my G70 became acceptable in that area), the drums are massively improved (over what was good in the first place!), the SuperNatural stuff is very clever, easily recognizing legato from detached, without turning the voice into a monophonic instrument (which I believe SA2 does to the horns), and the trick acoustic guitar, able to tell the difference between single line playing (including the use of hammer on's and off's that are tied to how you play, not how HARD you play) and chords, which it alternately up and down strokes (and you have a parameter to adjust the speed of the strums) is something I've never come across on ANYTHING before!

The subtle resonance on the SN pianos is nice if you are playing solo, the selection of synth sounds and pads is immense... possible enough to do away with needing a VA if you aren't going to do a lot of knob twiddling (sounds kinda dirty, LOL), having the USB port hidden away is reassuring (I get paranoid about the idea of whacking an exposed stick in the heat of performance!), and of course, the CS makes fully using all these voices (including plenty of bending) a snap, live.

The return of the MIDI sequencer is another HUGE plus, as I tend to do a lot of pre-production and SMF preparation by recording a 'capture' of the tune using the arranger, then import to my DAW and lose the repetitive stuff, put in voice leading basslines etc., and edit the fills a bit so they all aren't identical. And so far, I have never seen a USB transfer to record on a PC that keeps the timing as tight as the internal ones do.

Don't get me wrong. I am massively impressed with the BK-9 so far. But the loss of live ease of use has dampened my joy a hair, particularly as I would have LOVED to go out and gig live using that Hammond sound!

I guess nothing is ever perfect!

Cool - I think this is one I would definitely need to try before I buy. I might see if the folks I deal with (about 400 miles away) will send me a demo if I pay freight....

Dennis

Diki, if you can check the SMF play with the file I posted...Do the drums play correct...? I would like to know they corrected this problem reading the G70 edits..

Also, my insider swears they used the JunoStage keybed...What do you think? Ron Johnson thinks it is a better keybed than the JS..

Do you think Roland just figured everything is going the Ipad way, and rather than put in a touch screen, just promote their software to mate with the Apple pad? Then the expense of having a large touchscreen would fall to the user/consumer (having to purchase an Ipad) rather than to them in manufacturing. Of course, they already HAD a working touchscreen and a software tweak would have mad it work with the BK I'm sure....that's the hardest part to understand.......

That makes sense Sparky, but afaik, the iPad apps have very little in the way of editing or other functions.

Diki would be better palced, but that's what I have read re the BK series iPad extensions.

Dennis

The iPad apps Roland have out now communicate with the BK's strictly through MIDI, so the only things they can affect are parameters with MIDI controls, which is very little of the OS, in truth. And, of the things that DO have sys-ex, it doesn't really communicate with them either (I'm thinking MFX parameters, or the like).

So, at the moment, there is absolutely no way to run the entire arranger from an iPad as if it were the touch screen that is sorely missing. You can do some very basic functions, most of which are already on the front panel. It also simplifies naming and selection of Performances, SMF's and MP3's, and reorganizing the Performance Lists, a sort of DB function.

Strangely, though, one of our members at Roland-arranger.com wrote an entire G/E series editor that ran on the PC. Pretty much every parameter could be accessed via USB, and although it was written to be more of an editor than a replacement for the touch screen (didn't need to do that!), with some intelligent design and a touch tablet, it could have been.

Well, he's working on an editor for the BK series as we speak. So far, without Roland's help, much. He also thinks he might be able to port it from the PC to an iPad app in the future. But I'm thinking, if it can do that, it might be possible to also design it so it works as a touch screen for the entire machine... At least it might be a possibility.

So, in fairness, I think it might also be possible for Roland to do the same. And, of course, they have full and comprehensive data on how the thing works, and have the capabilities to add hooks into the OS if the iPad app doesn't run it entirely live (there might need to be some background caching of the BK-s status, for instance).

But whether they will will be another issue. Me, I'd happily pay good money for that, rather than it being a free iPad app as the current disappointing lot are. REALLY good money! And, to be honest, if it ran the BK's like the touch screen did on the G/E series, I cannot imagine a single BK owner not buying it either..!

You can buy a refurb iPad Mini (which has a screen much larger than the original touch screen on the G/E's) for as little as $270. $329 new... Let's be generous and say $100 for the software. So, another $400 or so onto the price of the BK-9 (if you haven't already got an iPad, like I don't!). That STILL puts the whole thing at $800+ less than we paid for new G70's.

That's a bargain!

Roland... want to make some easy money...?

Fran, let's move this to the Roland-arranger Bug Forum. I have started a topic here: http://www.roland-arranger.com/smf/index.php?topic=2015.0

Yes, you have a problem with that file.

I can't recall playing the Juno Stage... so can't honestly compare.

Seen it yet, Fran?