Watch that old stuff, Diki - I resemble that remark.

Gary

Interesting read...all your nominees. But I think you missed my point. Or maybe I didn't say it that clearly.

It's not about who has the fastest hands in the West or who can play Ave Maria on one hand while simultaneously playing In the Mood on the other and the Flight of the Bumblebee with their foot pedals, or who can play six gazillion styles of music while eating a 16" pizza, or who can play their keyboard by mental telepathy, etc.

There are many that I'd be the first to agree are top-notch, superior in every respect, first-line players. There are just NONE, in my book, who make great MUSIC. The kind you just can't stop tapping your feet to...the kind that when you hear it you want to get up and dance, even if you're sitting in a bus! Players who really get into the music mastery, NOT the keyboard mastery. Players who FEEL the music first and then play what they feel. Not players who just play notes as I'm starting to observe so many do nowadays.

I pulled out my Peter Bartmann audios and listened to five of them. Technically brilliant playing, but no really great driving melody in the notes.

Again, I agree with all the names mentioned here.....they're all top of the line, first rate players. No one in their right minds would deny that. But I feel they just put notes out there in any order, just as long as they get them out.

BTW.....it's only recently I thought about what I'm saying here. Up until this point, I also stood there with my mouth wide open and jaw dropped down to my knees when I heard some of what they do with their keyboards. But you're got to remember, the artistry is NOT just in being a keyboard whiz....there's just as much hard work that goes into making great music also.

Definition of "great music:" something that seems to have gone the way of mom's home-made apple pie.

I see it this way......it comes down to "good music" vs "good keyboard technique." There's a huge difference. Do you want to impress other musicians or do you want to make beautiful music for your listening audience?

BTW Part II......kudos to Gary. He came closest to recognizing what I was trying to say!

BTW Part III....yes, Donny might have been joking, but Don M is a good example of someone who "gets your feet tapping" with those great C&W tunes I've heard of his!

To the op .That's not really fair . The goalpost keep moving. All of the musicians there are great one man band players. If you want to look at who is the best composer or writer its a different question. All the clips that you have seen on YouTube are great musicians playing brilliantly and if it didnt move you then it just did not move you ! In most of the clips they are clearly demonstrating an instrument so they have to show their technical wizardry. But they do so excellently. With great touch and feel . Please post up a clip of some music that moves you as I don't know what that might be .

Have a listen to the great Peter Baartmans . The essence of great arranger playing is being able to interpret the instrument that you are correctly like the instrument in a real world environment would sound . With Peter, whether he's playing the guitar, saxophone, a trumpet, a piano organ, he will always play the instrument in the way that you would naturally hear it sound in a real live environment. Have listened to this clip and tell me if it doesn't move you and why . http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TRn-HINlfWg&feature=plcp

Mark- You have watched and listened to Norbert play. I'm a bit surprised you would group him in with your "none". Perhaps you should let him read that, or should I? But it is an opinion poll really....and where do you put yourself?

This reminds me of an old friend (passed), ..Tom came from the big band era, and arranged for several bands..
Tom learned to play keyboards when he was in his early 60's..He started his solo arranger play at that time...He use to amaze me as he played arranger keys, he played trumpet (his main instrument)...but the thing was...he played them in different keys

Tom also was a fine vocalist...I miss him..

To the OP... I think you are expecting too much for someone that fits your criteria, creative, expressive, original, playing from the heart, and then expect them to play an arranger! The exact OPPOSITE of all of that...

Players that fit your criteria play with REAL musicians. Not machines.

I couldn't disagree more, Diki. I know a lot of so called real musicians, guys that are Peabody trained, can play a piano better than anyone that I've ever come across, real musicians in every sense of the definition. Several of them, particularly in the past decade, have switched to playing an arranger keyboard. Why? Because it stimulates their creativity and makes them want to play more than ever. You don't have to be a guitar player to be a real musician, anymore than you have to be a piano player with a Steinway Grand - that's BS. An arranger keyboard IS A REAL INSTRUMENT! You must possess all the skills required to play any keyed instrument, piano, organ, accordion, etc...,but additionally, you need the technological skills to play it well. If anyone should know that, it should be you, Diki.

Just about everyone on this forum has played an instrument other than an arranger keyboard at one time or another. I played guitar, and at one time I was considered damned good at it. Don Mason played trumpet and was first seat. DNJ played an accordion, and if I recall so does Fran. There's no better piano player on this forum, IMO, than Joe Ayala. Just because they now choose to play an arranger keyboard over those previous instruments doesn't make them any less of a musician. In fact, I consider it damned well insulting to infer that arranger keyboard players are not true musicians. Are you any less of a musician because you play the G-70? I don't think so. Even if you play that G-70 just as a piano with a group, it's STILL an arranger keyboard.

Now, the OP title is "Who gets your vote for an OMB performance?" Don Mason, DNJ, Fran, Uncle Dave, Eddie Shoemaker, and several others on this forum would be on that list if the list were limited to just this forum. Music is their full time job, and it sure as Hell wouldn't be if they were unable to provide their audiences with outstanding entertainment from their daily performances using the instrument of their choice - an arranger keyboard.

Sorry about the rant, Diki, but that statement was totally uncalled for, IMO.

Gary

When I hear an arranger demo that equals the best live playing, I'll eat my words. Until then...

My playing a G70 with a live band means I am NOT using it in an OMB situation. And if my G70 sounded even slightly as good as the band I play with, well, they'd be out of a job, wouldn't they? LOL

Look, I understand how defensive so many OMB arranger users can get. And, for the life of me, I can only put it down to one thing. Deep in your heart of hearts, you KNOW it is a poor substitute for a good creative band.

We may all START out creative, original, expressive, emotional. THEN we decide we'd rather make money. But take that factor away from us, and anyone with any honesty would tell you they would rather be playing with a great live band. That it may not be convenient, that you prefer not to put up with the baggage that comes from having to deal with other personalities (that may be as strong, and maybe as acidic as our own!) is all well and good. But the results, when played back, make our efforts with an arranger so obviously fake that we have to tap dance as fast as we can to excuse it.

I make no apologies for bringing this up. Sure, maybe on ONE tune, one time, I can make something that equals a good live band (especially if I'm using loops of great live players in the first place! Or a karaoke track...) but the NEXT time I play it, it will sound darn near identical. That arranger isn't going to make the slightest attempt to be creative, and put a different spin on the tune, subtly or grossly. It isn't going to surprise me, it isn't going to push me in a direction I didn't realize I wanted to go, it isn't going to come up with a substitution I hadn't thought of, or an alteration of the groove, a push or a kick here or there.

That is the robotic nature of the beast.

Your rant, Gary, seems a bit off base. I at no point suggest that people PLAYING arrangers aren't talented. Far from it! To achieve what they do, given the handicap of only a soul-less machine to play with, some pretty good stuff has been achieved. All I try to point out is that, FAR better results can be had by playing with the best live players that will play with you. And THAT requires a lot of compromise.

But creative, original, emotional artists are always willing to make that compromise. The rest of us just want to make money!

Be honest for a minute... If money were no object, if great musicians were lining up at your door to play with you, to jam with you, to help you achieve your musical vision, would you turn them away and go switch on your PSR?

Didn't think so.

Sparky......no matter how you slice the pie, that was a low blow...period….both to me and and to Norbert! I don’t think he would appreciate his name being brought up in this thread and thrown around the way you‘re doing it....ESPECIALLY after what he's just been through!

FYI, I consider Norbert a good musician, a good sound technician and a class act. But this post had nothing to do with local musicians who are not known to most of the members here. It was all about video’s seen on Youtube.



I'm not quite sure what that has to do with the question in my original post? Maybe you can explain to me why I need to “rate” myself in order to do a post asking others who THEY feel makes great music?


That's the only part you got right!!!