During the last three months I first added a secondhand Roland E-50 and later on a BK-7m to my existing set up, Korg PA800 and Yamaha PSR750. I sold the E-50 within two weeks and the BK-7m should be going today. I would like to thank the "four D's " (Deane,Don,Donny and Diki) for their advice and assistance with the Roland gear.For many years now I have been trying to grasp why folks like Diki and Fran are so enamoured with the somewhat obsolete Roland material, in particular their G70 flagship. I for one started out with Roland gear in the 1990s and programmed endlessly on the G800, whose styles I thought ( and still think) were pretty corny, certainly compared to the new Korgs that appeared on the horizon in the mid 1990s.
However I learned that folks like Diki and Fran basically use their arranger for the bass and drum tracks and fill in most of the rest themselves or their bands. Having used the E50 and now the BK7m I can well understand their enthusiasm in this respect.Compared to my Korg and Yamaha the drum and bass sounds on the BK7m are vastly superior to the Yamaha and slightly better than on the Korg. (N.B. though not familiar with the new Korgs, I am under the impression that the drums on the previous series PA1X/PA80 and subsequently therefor even on the KMA are actually better than on the PA800/PA2X ).
So why not hang on to the BK7m you may well wonder ?
Well for starters it sorely misses one of Roland's highlights, the Dynamic Arranger. You must have had it to appreciate it and feel the lack of it.( I understand that even the new BK9 does not sport this facility and that Diki has contacted Roland about it in order they might incorporate it in a future update). But the major reason for letting it go again so soon is that, suffering from chronic headaches as I do, this contraption is bound to give any sane person a chronic headache eventually. Of course I mean the programming which has to be done via one dial/button for each and every parameter you can think of. At least the E50 like the G70 had both Dynamic Arrangers and superb touch screens. So who knows I might one day decide to get a G70 after all, but then I guess I would have to part with my yamaha PSR750 which, lousy as the bass and drums may be, gives me a lot of pleasure and many of the righthand sounds are absolutely superior to the Roland and even the Korg. Having said all that I am sure the next owner of my BK7m is going to be very pleased with the tremendous amount of styles etc. and as long as his programming will be limited he will feel quite happy with it.
I am looking forward to reading your BK9 experiences.

regards,
John

P.S. did you know the German guy (Deebach) is introducing a complete new sound system to work with virtually all Korg PA arrangers ? I'll keep you posted.

John:

From the various demos of the G70 I've heard it has a wonderful warm live sound that, at least to me, is still superior to any current Yamaha or Korg Arranger. It certainly sounds better than my Tyros 3 where drums, bass and piano are concerned. As you noted where the Yamaha is superior are the right hand sounds. The SA and SA2 Trumpets, Tenor Sax, Guitar, Harmonica,etc are just so realistic and a joy to play. That's the reason I keep the T3. I no longer use it as an Arranger as the Styles and their sound just doesn't cut it for me. I use the Motif to create my own "Performances" (which are basically similar to styles). It's very easy and the results superior to styles. Then again my needs are very different from most of the members on this forum. I don't gig. I compose and record my own music, make CDs and distribute them to people who enjoy my work. It's a hobby. That said, if Korg or Roland released an Arranger with right hand sounds equal to Yamaha's SA/SA2 I would trade in the T3 immediately. My hope is that Yamaha will add SA/SA2 voices to the Motif successor. One other question: What is the Dynamic Arranger feature you mentioned?

Joe

So John when are you ordering the Bk9...cant wait for your review on it.

Hi Joe,

I do not gig either, or rarely, and also record at home and distribute to friends and acquaintances. I do not compose but often try and arrange wellknown songs in a different manner. As such the Korg has always been a great help to me. You can download my latest efforts on the Korg with the links below.
I have been contemplating a swap of the Yamaha for the G70 but all the righthand sounds on the yamaha and certainly the very meritable acoustic piano has been witholding me................
As to the Dynamic Arranger, in all former Roland Arrangers up to the E-50/60 you could give values ranging from minus 64 to plus 64 for each and every accompaniment track. This way you could program a busy arrangement in such a manner that with e.g. a light touch the Roland would play acc. tracks 1 and 2, and with heavier touch of the left hand it would play other sections. ( or you could vary all the plusses.....). This made for an extremely versatile approach of playing the styles.

regards,
John

https://www.box.com/s/k2y9a6x7oh7knnl5dxxb
https://www.box.com/s/ojt88o3vtfnmt0qju57g

John:

I listened to a few of your recordings. You have a nice relaxed signing style and you do an excellent job at mixing and balancing your recordings keeping the backing uncluttered but complimentary to your singing. I wish I could sing as well as you as I very often write lyrics for my instrumental compositions. Here is link to a recent one and the Lyrics follow below. Maybe one day I'll get a mike and try to sing.


Box.net


I Never Thought I’d Love Again
Lyrics by Joe F. Regina ©2013

I never thought I’d love again
To be in love was just a fantasy

But now I’m coming alive
With feelings I can’t deny

It’s a new life for me
A life I never thought I’d see

Can this be really happening to me
Emotions running to the surface now
Should I abandon fear and take a chance
Or is this just a pointless brief romance

I’ve been hurt
So many times before
Just don’t know
What lies in store

It’s a lonely world
Without love
Not the kind of world
That I’m dreaming of

So if I take a chance
On this new romance
I face all my fears

I’m embracing all the love
Throwing caution to the wind
Running fearless toward the light
Love can shower on the night.

John, one thing that I thought you might have tried with the BK-7m is incorporating it via MIDI with your Yamaha. I agree that the Yamaha has some better RH sounds and a good style selection. But one application I thought would be a no brainer would be to take the Yamaha's drum track, and mute it in the Yamaha, and send it to the Roland...

Best of both worlds!

This business of having 2 or 3 MOTL arrangers, and then combining them into one über-arranger is what makes the idea of having more than one work. If every song is more a case of 'I'll do this on the Korg's arranger section' and 'I'll do this on the Yamaha', even though you may be doing RH voices on all of them, you are missing out on the best that they can do. Each arranger has strong points and weak points. Combining them with MIDI (you'll probably need a fairly decent master keyboard to pull it all off) is what will give you the most variety and quality of sounds.

Imagine a song with the Yamaha's guitar parts, the Roland's drums and bass, and some comping from the Korg. Now imagine that each song you do, you can pick and choose different (but related) styles from each arranger for the parts you want. Your style choices just went exponential, as you get a huge variety of possibilities rather than relying on one arranger for the entire arrangement.

If I ran multiple arrangers, this is what I'd be doing...

Diki,

"....Your style choices just went exponential, as you get a huge variety of possibilities rather than relying on one arranger for the entire arrangement...."

You are hitting the nail right on the head here. EXPONENTIAL being the key word. Although variety is the spice of life I tend to think that our choices have become too large to comprehend. I mean take me. I do know my way about with my Korg PA the way you do with the G70 but even then perhaps we have only explored what.....70% of its potential. Of course I could have mixed the Roland module with the Yamaha midi wise but due to several reasons one of them concerning my health, I thought I would not bother but rather concentrate on the music.
I even did a houseparty performance a few weeks ago, my first in well over ten years ( go figure !!) and only used my semi acoustic guitar and a number of backing tapes, some of which I had even concocted myself over a number of years. Good fun and I did not even miss my keys ! But like Joe here my main effort would be to re-arrange popclassics and make them sound different with the means at my disposal.
And as to you Donny, forget about it mate, unless of course you are blowing the dollarbills my way ( :)). Seriously though I have never even contemplated going down that avenue.
I guess in retrospect I should have spent the money that I did spend on the BK7m on a used G70 (...which I might still do in time...). If you consider all the styles available that do use the Dynamic Arranger ( take the lot made by Mart Weeho for starters) it is outrageous for Roland to have dropped this feature.
Which brings me to Joe's last comments and song. Thanks by the way for the compliments paid Joe. I take it this is the Motif we are listening to ? As to writing your own stuff, full marks here, I never got beyond some juvenile love stuff , I guess that is why I turned to re-arranging covers. The piano is very good, the sax later on in the song is outstanding. I see what you mean cause this definitely calls for a lady-singer to be sung. The basic accompaniment is very lucid be it a bit too repetitive in my ears, I guess also due to the length of it.But I assume it does take a gargantuan amount of work to get this done on a NON arranger keyboard ?

regards,
John

P.S. Diki, have you ever heard or experienced the Roland SRX-11 piano soundcard ?

John:

Yes,the backing on the song is from the Motif. It's all Arpeggio driven and it was not very difficult to create. Actually quite easy and fun. Just pick a voice and then select from thousands of styles of intelligent arps (arps that respond to how you play), play and listen. Repeat if not satisfied. Do that for each backing voice (Drums, Bass, E Piano, Guitar, Strings, Pads). You can create a four part backing in a few minutes. It does take longer but only because there are so many arps to choose from. The lead piano, Trumpet and Sax are from the T3.

BTW, I have done something similar to what Diki suggested. I select a Tyros Style, then mute the Drums and Bass. Then I select a Drum and Bass voice on the Motif with appropriate Arps and I have a Tyros Style with Motif Drums and Bass. Really improves the sound of the Style.

Joe

John- Have you considered a Ketron SD2 ( or now sd1000) for right hand sounds with the Roland arranger you like everything else about? I did that with my pa500 muting the right while using a midi profile with just right hand channel active. Much more compact and super sounds; but of course you know that.

Sparky,

About a year ago I had the SD2 module but in combination with my Korg PA800 I found it added little. Never tried it with my recent PSR750 which might be worth the effort. I checked on its successor the SD1000 which apparently is only hitting the market here in Europe this very month. Something perhaps to bear in mind.I still am in two minds about what to do. Either keep things the way they are, after all I am quite content with my Korg PA800 and the PSR750 has some great right hand stuff. On the other hand I might be tempted to get a G70 +Ketron SD1000 instead of the yammie.

regards,
John