This is a little off topic but it all ties together. Keyboard companies are in somewhat of a dilemma. Today's MOTL arrangers, in many cases, sound almost as good as the high-end boards. I played a Tyros4 a while back at GC and after owning a PSR-s950 briefly I thought the PSR-s950 sounded almost as good as the Tyros4 I played. To most listeners in an audience the miniscule difference in sound quality is not really an issue. Especially if it involves Senior Citizens. God bless them one and all. Many Senior Citizens have at least some hearing loss, and therefore, they can't distinguish the finer details in music. Those with significant hearing loss anyway. Such as the intricate nuances or the expansive realm of highs and lows that gives life and breadth to the sound. So that ultra realistic electric guitar sound on that high-end model wouldn't be appreciated in most cases. Younger audiences appreciate sound quality to a greater degree because their hearing is relatively still intact. Young people and others who don't have hearing loss will appreciate a Tyros4 over the slightly lesser sound quality of the PSR-s950. Although that would not be the case in young people exposed to super loud Hard Rock music, etc. since their hearing would likely also be on the ropes. But I digress.

Back to the dilemma facing keyboard companies. So if Yamaha produces a Tyros5 (or whatever they decide to call it) and it costs $6,500... If they build it, will people actually buy it in sufficient numbers to garner a reasonable profit for Yamaha?

Let's face it. The world economy is currently in the dumps and in the United States the economy continues to struggle and people's income has been going down over the last several years because of the recent recession. Which is still limping along at a snail's pace I might add. If Yamaha produced an $1,899 arranger that sounds almost as good as their top-of-the-line model then most people would purchase the $1,899 model and would be pocketing several thousand dollars in savings in the process. And again some audiences wouldn't know the difference in sound quality and therefore most everybody is happy, including the guy (or gal) that saved thousands of dollars by purchasing that MOTL arranger instead of the "bank busting" higher-end model. That's why the new BK-9 seems so appealing. It has a decent price tag ($2,499) and it sounds excellent from what I've heard so far. So what I am saying is Yammie, Korg, Roland, Ketron and the others must give a viable reason for people to purchase that $6,500 arranger when in most cases the $1,899 arranger would more than suffice. And that's why high-end arrangers may be on the way out. The MOTL arrangers sound nearly as good and they don't break the bank. Things have come a long way in the last ten years. It makes logical sense to have great sound quality at a decent price. In other words, in most cases, the high-end models may not be worth the thousands of dollars in additional cost.

BTW, I'm not trying to diss Senior Citizens. A lot of Senior Citizens have good hearing, and therefore, they would know the difference between medicore sound quality versus excellent sound quality. I'm sure they would enjoy the PSR-s950 or any other high quality MOTL arranger currently on the market. It is up to the keyboardist whether or not he (or she) would want to spend thousands of dollars more for a slight increase in sound quality and a few more features. Which tells you right there that the Big Three and Ketron need to step up their game significantly if they expect people to fork over $5,000 - $6,500 for a 'modest' increase in sound quality over their MOTL sibblings.

All the best, Mike

Mike, most musicians have significant hearing impairment problems - especially those that were in rock bands. In fact, I don't know a single musician that does not have at least some hearing impairment. Hell, most of the seniors probably hear better than most musicians.

As for an arranger keyboard manufacturer gearing up to target a young audience - I don't believe it's sound business sense. Especially here in the United States. I have a friend that owns one of the local area's largest music stores. It takes up an entire, small shopping center, his inventory is huge, and about a decade ago he decided to pretty much eliminate TOTL arranger keyboards and synths from his store.

Now, here's a guy that walks, talks and breathes music, can play better than 99 percent of the players I know of, and his store offers band rental equipment and he has at least a dozen full and part time music instructors there 6 days a week. Like most stores nationwide, arranger keyboard sales only constitute a tiny percentage of his overall sales. What he sells in guitars in just 15 minutes of every day, he doesn't sell in arranger keyboards and synths in a month. And, these are not low-ball guitars, many costing more than an MOTL arranger keyboard.

In years past, his big money generator was band rental equipment. At the beginning of the school year, the store was jammed to capacity with people waiting in up to 5 lines to pick up rental instruments, guitars, flutes, horns, violins, etc... His repair staff consisted of 4 full-time technicians that could fix anything. I watched one of his techs straighten out a tuba one day that looked as if it had been run over by a truck. At the end of a couple hours you would have thought it was brand new and just came out of the box.

We talked about the future of young people in music at length one day. He and I both agree that young people, high school through the college years, are really not interested in playing music as they were in the past. It's not the equipment - it's the learning curve. They tend to want instant gratification with everything. Many learn a half-dozen guitar chords, pick up some decent chops along the way, and have no trouble getting a job with most of the local rock bands. They're not interested in learning how to read music, learning music theory, chord structure, etc... Those that don't want to play an instrument, which is the majority, want their music for free, loud, and they want it NOW!

I believe Yamaha, Roland, Korg and some lesser known manufacturers have done a lot of market research, they're well aware of who is going to buy their arranger keyboards, pianos, organs, etc... They know how to target those consumers, and they know what they will be likely to purchase, not only this year, but 10 years from now.

About 10 years ago I had a talk with Yamaha about changing their displays to supertwist LCD, which gets brighter as more light hits the face of the screen. The advantage being that those of us that play outdoor jobs, tiki bars, pool parties, anything outdoors, would be able to see the display from any angle. I also talked with them about changing the indicator lights on the buttons to super-bright LEDs for the same reasons. The person I talked with said it would not happen for a number of reasons, cost being right at the top of the list, but most of all the demographics. He said their research showed that less than 1/1000th of 1-percent of their overall consumers would benefit from those changes, which was the approximate percentage of players that plays outdoor jobs regularly.

Cheers,

Gary

But if any keyboard defines the term 'instant gratification', it's the arranger!

TBH, most of the keyboards they ARE buying are much harder to work than an arranger... I am CONVINCED it is the content, not the keyboard TYPE that is putting them off. Put the shoe on the other foot - how interested in arrangers would we be if there were next to NOTHING in them we could use? If nearly ALL the styles were hiphop, crunk, deep house, rap, styles like that?

None of us, I'm sure...! Well, that's EXACTLY what young keyboard buyers face. And guess what? Kids aren't buying them. But it's got almost nothing to do with the workflow. That's almost perfect for today's 'one finger' kids!

I don't believe young people are buying anything with keys, Diki - that requires dedication and hard work, both mentally and physically, and that ain't gonna happen! At least from what I see in this part of the world. Maybe things are a bit different in the Florida Panhandle, but I don't think so.

Gary

I have to side with Gary and Deane on this. Having played a great deal of western European music in recent years ,even the younger European folks still celebrate the music of their heritage, right along with their techno thumping.
Workstations satisfy the needs of those who don't do so, especially in the US and UK. An arranger is not needed when house/dance music is not much more than loops that are provided in WS's. And they don't need the sounds or styles in arrangers, nor do they need 4 variations of each and multiple intros/endings. We, the elders, use arrangers for OUR type of music and dancing etc. From a company's standpoint, why modify arrangers instead of just dropping them and letting the synth/workstations/controllers take over, continuing to do what they are doing now? Because we don't want to see arrangers die off? If you don't need what an arranger does, there are these other things out there that are sufficient. Ask any GC that sells to today's youth , and they'll tell you the biggest sales are in controllers with software packages now. No onboard anything. Everything comes from a vst on an ipad or laptop. The stores have entry level arrangers to start some kids off, then it's on to the other stuff, or not. Listening whenever and wherever you want from your mp3 player or phone beats dragging out an instrument for most kids. Technology, and today's taste, are leaving us in the dust.
And like Gary says, today's youth doesn't want to put the time into being real musicians. It is a generational thing. A lot of us learned how to play a piano because there was one in the house when we grew up. Don't see much of that lately. And I agree with the "instant gratification" theory too. While we were lucky to have all 6 strings on our first guitars, today's kids start with a guitar (which mommy and daddy spent multiple car payments on) , then get bored, and move on to the next thing until they are bored with that....
But adding things to arrangers that are already present in WS's and controllers w/vst's simply isn't necessary in a manufacturer's view, just for the sake of keeping arrangers alive. It would be simply non-profitable duplication to dump the old stuff and replace it with new.. The features that arrangers offer are tailored toward "our" generation(s) and are simply not needed for "modern" music. Arrangers suit our demographic much more than that of our kids or grandkids ,just as organs and pianos did for our parents.

All of the above discussion makes sense to me. I see the logic in each response, but don't know who has the edge on "truth." I just hope I can make it through a few more new arranger models before packin' it in. Sure hope the arranger makers don't call it quits, at least not yet. I started many years ago playing the tunes of the 30's through the 50's, and still do. As the generations passed, now my "standards" seem to be tunes from the 60's to 80's. That's as far, musically, I want to go. Try as I may, I'm not enamored by today's pop music. Must be a cultural or generational thing for me, as well. Sure don't lose any sleep or fret over it.

You want to stay in business, you do whatever brings in the most money. If you are losing players altogether, because you don't make anything they can make their music on that is easy to use, you lose a generation.

Maybe that's why theirs is a slacker generation? Nobody makes the GEAR they can use designed for THEM. Keep it simple, make it sound like TODAY. The old Yamaha DJX (not the second one) showed the way. An arranger, with nothing but rap and hiphop in it! It was a great piece of gear.

Yep, that Yamaha DJX was so popular it was almost immediately discontinued. Guess the young people didn't buy many. Give me some examples of what "young people" want to hear, Diki. So far, I've heard nothing that would send chills down my spine.

Gary

As I said, there already are boards "they" can play their music on- WS's and controllers w/ vst's. I looked at the inexpensive Yamaha MM6 when shopping. It has everything they need- rap/hiphop/techno styles/loops and synth sounds. Very few "traditional" sounds, but has some..