sadly the arranger KBs of today will become the home organs of tomorrow....the way things are going if you gigout DJ's will rule the roost almost entirely in the future..plain honest truth.

Lets see now. I'm 19 years old, I drive a 10 year old car, I'm up to my ass in college debt, working at Micky D's to keep my head slightly below water, begging my parents for money so I can go on a date, but they just told me that they're not paying for any more college tuition, especially when I went in a binge with my dorm mates and overdrew the checking account. Oh yeah, I want to perform rapp and hip-hop music, so I think I'll go out and get one of those new keyboards designed just for that kind of music. NOT!

I'm 55, drive a 5-year old car that I paid cash for when it was new, the mortgage was paid off 10 years ago, the kids are out of college and those bills were all pay as you go, and the only expenses I have are groceries, entertainment and taxes. I think I'd like to have some fun playing music, the same music I enjoyed when I was 19 years old, in college, dating hot chicks, and driving an old, beat-up, fast car. I guess I've drive up to New England, stop by at Frankie Vee's place, try out some of the keyboards, and if I find one, I'll write him a check for payment in full. Sounds perfectly logical to me.

Finally, I'm a major, arranger keyboard manufacturer. I'm in the business to make money - lots of money. I've spent millions of dollars and thousands of man hours researching the arranger keyboard market. I've determined that younger Americans are often deeply in debt, and do not have much in the way of spendable income for the purchase of recreational musical equipment costing more than $1,000 - that's why our company also makes low end keyboards and guitars. I've also determined that demographically, most Americans over age 50 are financially able to pursue leisure activities without encumbering themselves with long term indebtedness. That's why our company makes MOTL and TOTL arranger keyboards with music styles that are tailored toward that generation.

Diki, The top manufacturers in the arranger keyboard industry are NOT all a bunch of stupid, old people that don't research their markets. They're pretty damned intelligent, and in the case of Yamaha, they have a lot more irons in the fire than just arranger keyboards. In fact, arranger keyboards are just a small facet of their overall business. However, you can bet your bottom dollar that Yamaha, Korg, Roland, etc..., would all be producing huge volumes of keyboards with the very styles you continue to tout if there was a viable market out there. There just isn't! Just because you say there is, doesn't make it true - and from all the times you've posted something along these lines you have yet to come up with a single shred of hard evidence that specifically spells this out in no uncertain terms.

On a sailing forum I frequent there's a lengthy thread about why there are very few young people involved in sailing. The same is true there as well. Young people, most of which are referred to as the "Me Now Generation," tend to want things small, cheap, fast and now. None of those things apply to sailing. Sure you can find smaller sailboats, but they're not cheap, they rarely exceed 10 MPH, and in some states, in order to go boating you need to take a boating safety course, so you can't have it now. The older folks have the money, and that industry, which over the past few decades has taken a financial beating, tailor makes their boats for people over 50 years of age, people that don't need to go fast, and have the money to pay for the boats.

Personally, hip-hop, rap and to some extent, dance, will be long gone, while R&B, swing, jazz and other musical genres of the past will still be around. Time will tell, though.

Gary

I'm not claiming anything to the tune of "we're going to save the market". All i'm saying is that in our communities, arranger sales are alive and well and will be for quite some time.
Are they selling lots of arrangers in the average guitar center? Probably not. But what you were saying is that kids don't buy these keyboards, and I contest to that. Simple.

Fact is, arranger keyboards IN GENERAL are a "niche market"... And you guys here on synthzone are also a minority and "niche market"... However, these kids i'm referring to are growing up on these keyboards, and will likely continue to use them for years to come. (Providing the company's make them).

Actually, I believe a lot of the reluctance to make arrangers just for the kids is that they would scavenge sales form existing divisions.

It's going to take an arranger maker that doesn't make anything ELSE to get the ball rolling. TBH, Lionstracs screwed the pooch with the MS. The way to sell them wasn't to old farts like us, used to the cream of the TOTL crop, with great styles and sounds (for us!) ready to go. The way would have been to stuff it with modern stuff and go after the generation that could use something like that. But it would still boil down to having the resources and money to put it all together.

I believe the market is there. But for the majors, it means pulling customers for THEIR existing products away from them to buy (for the same money) something that's going to cost a lot to make. They have the sale already. Why should they bother?

But an arranger ONLY company (either existing or new) would not have that issue.

I would have to say here in Dallas, TX arrangers are pretty much un heard of. In the stores about all you can find are Yamaha psr. In the few venues that have dous and solo acts, they all seem to use guitar players. A few very upscale places use pianists. On the NH home circuit, the only other arranger player that I am aware of is our own SZ member Deane. I'm sure there must be some more out there but in the NH that I have worked at, all the other entertainers are singing guitar players, Sax players with tracks, or Karaoke singers (lots of Elvis impersonators and a few Sinatra ones too) I'd love to go out and get to hear some arranger keyboardist perform around here but I haven't found anybody... I may drive all the way to Louisiana this weekend to hear Don M.

We go to Mexico every year (Mx City, Cuernavaca, Acapulco, Veracruz) It's not at all unusual to find arranger players (of all ages) performing in all sorts of venues. However, I noticed more and more Karaoke entertainers too...

Arranger keyboard Are predominantly found in almost all the junior and secondary schools in the UK. These are the instruments that children are being don't want to play the piano keyboard on. The reason why you'll find many arrange a keyboards in music shops today is predominantly because the profit margin on them is smaller compared to the larger workstations. Very few customers will purchase top-of-the-line arranger unless they are professional musician or a very wealthy hobbyist. In general music stores are losing out in sales all round because of the Internet. Just because you don't see them in the stores does not mean that range of sales are falling.

Hi Spalding. So is the UK similar to the rest of Europe in terms of adequate gigs for arranger players? I'm thinking pubs and clubs as opposed to the retirement/ NH circuit which seems to be the norm here in North America.

There are plenty opportunities for musicians with talent and business sense and drive to play at pubs and clubs up and down the country in the uk whether they be arranger players or other musicians . What is lacking is individuals who possess enough of all three attributes.

spalding, I believe those attributes apply worldwide - not just in the UK.

Cheers,

Gary

Also the attributes needed for any "Business' to survive. ;-)

Bill G