Today I was all set to buy a Casio Privia PX-350. This piano keyboard with some styles has received some very good reviews in the trade publications. (Keyboard)street price is $800.

Before I go any further-I just wanted to say that you can not always trust reviews. I know that; but they can point you in directs-may be not the direction you want to go.

anyway-I was not terribly impressed by the pianos, the styles were cheesy, and the action was OK.

I came away really disillusioned by keyboards in general that retail around $1000. Why? Because the pianos on said boards never sound good to my ears.

One of the reviews of the Casio PX-350 said it was the best souunding piano sounds in a keyboard under $2000. Then I think sun came out over Marblehead(My original hometown). I think keyboars which is about my budget range sound crappy because they are crappy. Any truth to that?

This may not mean anything to anyone but I have good ears. I use Totem speakers; if you have ever heard them, you'd know I have good ears. That is beside the point-I know. I'm just trying to give you a little of my resume.
I am not trashing Casio; I think their products are very greatly improved & nobody beats them in the quality of their inexpensive watches.

I think the only keyboard I would dare buy now is a used Nord or Kurzweil. Would that get me on the right track??? I know these are not arranger keyboards but there is a ton of experience on this forum & I would be very interested in your comments.
I guess I should tell you-I judge keyboars by mostly piano sounds as they are my favorite sounds, then organs.

Look at the korg krome. I hear it has a 4gb piano sample.

4gb total samples.paino (around 2gb).less samples than Kronos .no Japanese and other grands.only german.
Krome 88 - 1599$ (better piano sample/touch screen)or Yamaha Mox 8 1699$ (better acostic sounds)will be usable workstations if you want new (they are also light-32lbs)Stay away from Krome 61 (floppy and frigile keys ).

Yamaha p155 or even Cp33 if you want good weighted 88 with good piano sample.( $ 999).both will have better resale value than Casio .Kurz Sp5 -great but around $1799.

If you want an arranger and can live with nOt so great and less(61) keys Yamaha psrs750 (1100$) and korg pa 600 (1000$) (both actual out the door prices) are good choices.

I think that far and away the best arranger for under $1,000. is Roland BK7m Module. You can find a new one for around $900. You'll need a controller to go with it, but they are relatively inexpensive.
Great styles, very good sounds. I like some of the pianos on it a lot.
DonM

Don't forget the BK-5... OK, not the world's greatest action, but still far better than on the Yamaha's PSR's. You can get those for under a grand.

And you don't need a controller extra, or the programming to use it.

I just bought a Roland A800 PRO controller...same keybed as the BK5..

Don, would you have drawbar sets already assigned to the sliders?

I like the controller, but the BK5 is the way to go over the controller and BK7m....and reads the lyrics and chords on all SMF's..

I'm just not sure, unless you are VERY good with MIDI, that a module and a remote is the way to go. Most modern arrangers are studded with switches, knobs and sliders, to control a bewildering array of options to do whatever you need to do. Volume control of the Parts, effects, insert effects (better get good with sys-ex to do anything live to those!), buttons to do everything from muting certain tracks (programmable which ones on a per-Performance basis) to split activators (with a per-performance split point) Melody Intelligence activators.

Truth is, there is still much in a modern arranger that either has no MIDI control at all, or it involves sys-ex, but the hooks to the sliders and knobs in the keyboard version is part of the OS. Try to duplicate much of it on a remote keyboard, and you quickly find out how much is missing. Plus, to get what full measure of control the arranger allows, basically, you have to have a fairly decent controller. A good 61 should be about $400+, to get a full selection of knobs, sliders and buttons and an action at least as good as the hardware version.

So, a grand for the module, $400+ for the controller... and a boatload of work to do to achieve far less than the keyboard version can do. Another $500 or so, you are into the full version of the arranger, with no programming work to do, no hooking up MIDI cables, and far better integration of control. The BK-5 offers far more control from the front panel than any controller can do, for little more than the BK-7m does by itself...

Now, I have a BK-7m. But I honestly wouldn't want to use if for a full arranger gig. It's the soundsource for my keytar, not a full gig solution. Those that want to go the remote keyboard route, best of luck and God bless, but I honestly think that the full version of the arranger is generally a MUCH easier solution, and at little, if any extra cost.

Yesterday, Yamaha introduced to their dealers the new YDG650. It will be out in August. It has 88 weighted keys and now features the highly acclaimed CFIIIS (uncompressed) P105's grand piano voice. The new model also features the ability to record .wav files direct to a USB thumb drive and there is a new feature which when turned on allows you to play single fingered chord changes and depending on what style you are playing the keyboard will automatically play different voiced chords to fit the style.
There is a stereo 1/8" aux input on the back to playback songs from iPads, etc.
The keyboard can be purchased in either black or white and will sell for a street price of $799.00.
This should be a great addition to Yamaha's digital piano line up.

The PX-350 is pretty limited as an arranger keyboard, except for practicing or doing a couple of songs live.

But I don't think you give it credit as a digital piano. It has
1) fully weighted tri-sensor, hammer action, and scaled keyboard, 2) ivory and ebony simulated keys, 3) high definition MIDI, 4) damper resonance, 5) 1/2 damper capability. Overall, a fantastic acoustic piano sound in my opinion. Not perfect, but really great for the price.

So today I bought a used Kurzweil PC3LE7 for a little over 1000 with shipping. It may not be the best choice but I do think I'll like the piano sounds.
Thanks everyonr for your thoughtful suggestions and have a Happy 4th!

If you're thinking about buying an arranger keyboard for the piano sounds, you would be better off just buying a good, electronic piano.

Gary

Congratratulations! Kurzwiel has some outstanding sound, especially for acoustic pianos. Let us know what you think.

The kurz pianos (mainly acoustic) are not all that brilliant stand-alone, bit in a mix? Almost the best ones out there. The EP's are very good, organs brilliant (but watch voice stealing) but sadly that is where the PC3 LE falls away imo. VERY weak guitars, so-so basses, brass is pathetic, strings a bit wishy washy but there are a couple of decent synths.

Oh and the drums are weird in mapping unless you set it to GM mapping for the drums, and 2/3's of the kits are unusable for anything other than dance/trance/ambient etc etc

Still a decent board, and a VERY nice action.

Dennis

My experience with Kurzweil (PC88, SP2 and MarkV digital console) tells me they have the most superb sound. You're definitely going to get a better sound with more money, but for $800 I think the Privia sounds pretty good. Yamaha has a good fake piano sound, but it's definitely not a true piano like a Kurzweil. I think Roland is woody sounding.

Strangely, I think that's what they make them out of...

comparing this to the Casio is probably apples and oranges, but based on the piano playing experience alone,

The Casio has 88 keys, the Kurzweil has 76.
The Casio keys are fully weighted with the lower keys slightly heavier feeling than the higher keys, the Kurzweil is semi weighted.
The Casio has 16,256 velocity values, the Kurzweil has 127.
The Casio has damper resonance, the Kurzweil doesn't.
The Casio has ivory textured keys, the Kurzweil doesn't.
The Casio has 128 polyphony, the Kurzweil 64.

Nevertheless, piano sounds are personal, and the Kurzweil probably has many advantages for a gigging musician. I wish Cdog46 many years of joy with his Kurzweil.

Thank you all for your help & kind words. I should have this board next week, and I certainly will let you know how I like it.

I want to couch my next observation carefully, and it is restatement of what has been said so many times.

It all comes down to exspectations of what the person wants. The only way for one to really explain what they are looking for in keyboard is by comparison. My key is like a _________ fill in the blank.

Turns out-it is the Worst way to do it! Differences are subtle or impossible because of the obvious reason-oranges vs apples.
Yet-comparison is the ONLY way I know of to convey one's thoughts to another person & that comparison is always going to be sujective.
Just my long winded of saying what we all know but still indulge in.

You can't even get two people to agree on what is the best REAL piano... the odds that any of us will agree on which sampled piano are slim to none!

For me, the thing is, before you make a decision about which sampled piano you want to play, go sit down at your favorite real piano you have access to, and play it for a few hours. Remind yourself about what a real piano sounds like. Remind yourself about how they aren't bright and tinny at low volumes (or even high ones!), remind yourself about at what force level they start to get brighter, what force level (or lack of it!) they become warm and intimate, remind yourself about the apparent volume change from ppp to fff.

THEN go play some sampled pianos.

Funny, when Diki mentioned the tinny sound of a piano I instantly recalled when I was about 12 years old and placed thumb tacks in the hammers of the piano we had at home so it would sound somewhat like a Nickelodeon Piano. Wow, was my father pissed!

Cheers,

Gary

I am not impressed with the Roland screens from the BK 9 but the piano sounds great. To be honest the best piano sound I have ever heard on any arranger.

That's funny, Gary. I remember years ago playing a small Kemble upright that had three pedals on it. The third pedal operated a wooden rod with small metal tags on felt strips attached. On pressing the pedal, the metal tags would position just above the strings in the path of the hammers, so giving that honky-tonk, jangling sound.

I sincerely believe the absolutely best piano sounds I've ever heard from an arranger keyboard was from the old PSR-5700. It was a beast of a keyboard, tipped the scales at more than 50 pounds, only had 35 styles, and maybe the same number of voices, but the grand piano and vibes sounds were absolutely outstanding.

Cheers,

Gary

And if they are the RIGHT styles and voices that's more than anyone needs ...

But my 35 styles of choice will be different to Donny's, which will be different to DonM's, which will be different from Tostie's... Etc., etc..

What I was trying to say was that if a person has the 35 styles & voices he/she needs that would be more than enough ... guess I didn't express myself well ...

I understood you perfectly, Tony.

Gary

But that's kind of why you need hundreds of GOOD styles in any arranger. So you can find 35 that you LIKE..!