I frequently joke about my wife telling me that I can retire 3 days after I'm dead - kinda like Weekend At Bernie's where Bernie is sitting in a lawn chair and the guys are spraying aerosol deodorant to kill the smell of Bernie decaying in the sun.

In reality, there will soon come a day when I'll have to retire. Not because I want to retire, but as many of you already know, the equipment tends to gain weight exponentially as we get beyond age 65. At 72 I still keep up a pretty good schedule, usually 4 to 5 days a week, but I no longer do doubles and the occasional triple - it's just too much loading and unloading. This, despite the fact that the gear load has been lightened by at least 70 percent over the past two decades.

Additionally, the crowds that many of us perform for are in the same age category. Yep, they're getting old, have health problems that preclude them from dancing the night away, some are on a fixed income and no longer have the finances to party every weekend, etc... Those audiences are slowly dying away, too.

In the past decade, at least a dozen fellow musician/entertainers I personally knew have passed away, often leaving their spouses and families with a mountain of debt. Only one of them had sufficient life insurance, and he was the same one that had a retirement plan. All the others did not.

The others pretty much considered the music business as a cash and carry deal, rarely claimed any job on their income taxes, didn't write checks for any purchases, didn't keep receipts, paid cash for just about everything and never took the time to document business related expenses. I was awestruck at many of the viewings when these individuals passed away when their spouses said "We didn't have any insurance, and John didn't have a retirement plan. I had to make a loan just to pay the funeral expenses." This, unfortunately, is not at all uncommon.

With the exception of Captain Russ, Don Mason, myself, and a few others, I wonder how many individuals on this forum have actually looked into the future and planned their eventual retirement? How many of you use programs such as Quick Books, Quicken, Turbo Tax, etc... to manage your music income and expenses? Have you ever thought about setting up a simple IRA, SEP, Roth IRA, or similar retirement plan? How much of your music income goes into retirement?

Just food for thought,

Gary

My wife and I often sit and talk about how lucky we are and how much we are enjoying life after "work". I retired from a regular job 15 years ao at age 58 - just got tired of all the corp BS and called it quits. My wife kept her job and will retire sometime this year after 35 years of service to her job. Looking back we didn't have financial planners, stock market experts to guide us, or bankers to overlook our finances. What we did have going for us was a very good set of parents who taught us how to live within our means and to become debt free as soon as possible. We bought our first brand new car this year after buying used cars for decades, we still live in the paid off house that we moved into in 1966. Our credit cards are paid off each month leaving no balances and when eating out we rarely, if ever, go to overpriced places. Our spending habits have always been if you can't pay for it - don't get it. Never in our lives have we felt like we haven't owned anything we wanted and for sure have always been able to have anything we needed. You see, this was the way we were both raised and in looking back we could not be more thankful and grateful.

Today we are able to live a very comfortable life, enjoy our time together, and do things we only dreamed about years ago. All this because we learned very early in our lives how to become, and stay, debt free and forget about how we would be able to pay for things we didn't need, and did not bring us any additional happiness.

I don't know what people do late in life who suddenly wake up and discover they have not put themselves in a position to enjoy their senior years. Today I have many things which keep me busy. I gig several times weekly - mainly to pay for the equipment I want - run my own Real Estate Company which pays for our several overseas trips a year - and basically just enjoy life. The best thing about all this is the fact whatever I do - I do it because I want to and not because it is required of me.

Gary is right on target though. In the world in which we live today you have to take care of yourself and not depend on anything or anyone else to do it for you.

Deane

Russ Lay earns no income from the music business. Instead, my company, CCI, bills clients for music, photography, design, video, printing, copy...everything we do.

I take minimum profit disbursements when needed, but leave funds in business accounts when appropriate, delaying taxes until funds are actually paid to me.

I retired from a large electrical manufacturing corporation. Social Security and retirement, without any "side" income leaves me very comfortable. The "side income" is where the toys come from.

I feel sorry for younger people who work for organizations that do not have a defined retirement plan, and for lots of my musician friends who simply didn't or couldn't sock enough away to be comfortable in later years. That's why making a significant contribution to the New Orleans Habit project for displaced musicians is so important to me.

And Gary could always get a reverse boat mortgage, or a canoe (LOL).

Think of the muscles he'd have after his next trip down south(LOL)!


Russ

Ahhhh...retirement. I have spent the last several months tidying up my finances and living situation....and, since April past, I have officially retired from Yamaha after nearly 35 years of service. Man, it feels GOOD! I bought a Tyros4 prior to ending my term, and now I play the music that I want to play, not necessarily what needs to be played.

Another pension due to start next year in mid-March, so I am pretty comfortable financially and have also decided to forgo any gigging situations for at least a year. Thankfully, my health is very good and the only thing that acts up lately is my "lazyitus", but now I have the time to bask in it.

I am enjoying lurking on the forum and peek in only once in a while...good to see the same old faces and a few new ones. I've been doing a lot of recording, mainly for my own pleasure.

Gary, I wish you the best on whatever decision you make...I know I made the right one and knew it almost right away.

Good luck, and happy retirement!

Ian

The Cape crusader is back! Welcome back, ba!

Guys I just turned 50 in April I am at the height of my playing but it hard to save I have 2 kids in high school and one in middle school and a Six year old so I am in the expensive
Time in my life , it take a day job and 20 plus gigs a mo to make it happen I do have a small pension from a company I worked for for 17 years that will help but my music performing is getting more and more popular some day I will be able to just do that I hope. But I must start to plan for the future. This is a topic that all of us need to think about. And now I am 50. I got prob 20 years to get it done so thanks for the reminder it good food for thought.

What many people do not realize is that taking just $10 a week from a paycheck (BEFORE you even get it if possible) and put into some kind of savings or IRA account will build into a nice amount over the course of some years and the $10 would not even be missed ...

I worked for one company for 40 years and they had a nice IRA account which of course I paid into but they matched at a minimum of 50% ... I also have a GUARANTEED pension which was fully funded by the company, and they pay 75% of my medical coverage ... My wife and I are extremely fortunate, but to paraphrase Branch Rickey "Good fortune is the residue of design" ... I did a really good job for 40 years and am now reaping the benefits ...

Rule #1 The sooner you start preparing the less you have to put away each month.

My playing career was based on what I loved doing and supporting my wife and four children. Most my playing was Friday to Sunday. I had four to five jobs each week and I was happy to put down my guitar Sunday evening; I had enough. By time Friday came I was pumped ready to go.

I realized early in life that the percentage of musician who earned a good living with good retirement were very few. Also most fulltime musicians played many jobs they hated to play – because of dollars. The reason I did not have that problem is because I always had a daytime job; teaching guitar, selling securities, and now tuning pianos. My jobs never brought in small dollars because I stayed in the catering field; wedding ect.

My philosophy: I did not have to play as many jobs as the fulltime musician and I did not have to make the money that some of the daytime workers earned. I did put in hours but the combined income was more than average. I lived in one of the finest areas in Long Island (New York) there always seemed to be enough money.

I am now playing one job a week and I thank God I am able to do it. I also thank God that he hasn’t sent me a second job. (smile)
I
can only talk like this because I am on the other side – I’ve lived it.

John C.

In my case, I began saving for retirement more than 20 years ago. Each week I put money into a special account earmarked just for retirement. At the end of the year, when it was tax time, I shifted that money into either mutual funds or an IRA, which helped offset my tax burden by a significant amount. And, as some of you old timers know, the amount you can contribute increases when you surpass a certain age. When a lot of folks don't know is that you can continue to contribute, even beyond age 70-1/2, which is when you are required to make minimum withdrawals. So, yes, I'm still salting it away. Carol's going to have one Hell of a good time when this old man kicks the bucket.

The secret to success with this is to make payment into the retirement account the same as if you were paying your telephone or electric bill. Pay that amount regularly as clockwork and you'll be absolutely amazed at how quickly those funds will grow. I'm hoping to get another three to five years of work out of this old body, but if for some unknown reason I had to quit tomorrow, I wouldn't have to change my lifestyle and sell the house or the boat. I guess instead of playing, though, I would just spend more time sailing. Hmmmmm! sounds like a good way to spend the rest of my life.

Cheers,

Gary

Thanks 124. I think possibly part of what Gary is talking about is having the "choice" to retire or to continue on making a living in a rapidly changing "live" music environment.

In my 50's, I felt like I'd never want to retire from gigging, because I enjoyed playing so much, and always got a "contact high" from it, but the changing work (playing) places, the Internet, and my own evolving personal preferences, contributed to my decision to at least step back a bit and re-evaluate my situation...and, I am very lucky to have been in the position to do so. I had a CHOICE!

I still love playing, and I still spend several hours at my Tyros4 every day (making styles and doing some recording), but it is so nice to be able to choose to step away from gigging and clinician work and "smell the roses".

I have several full time musician friends, around my age of 64, who are getting weary of trying to find good paying jobs amid more forms of stage competition, and who are becoming less capable of dealing with the set-up/break-down (plus transportation of) of keyboard (and amplification) gear due to the slow, but inevitable, change in their physical make-up.

Some of them, unfortunately, have no retirement plans.

So, perhaps the operative word in this thread is choice.

I've gotten away from most keyboard forum participation due to other music, and non-music, related interests, and I don't plan on posting very much, but I must admit, I do benefit from the occasionally useful (to me) shared info, and sometimes enjoy a chuckle at some of the more petty tussles (maybe "discussions" is a better word ) between the usual suspects.

So, I will peek in occasionally and try to remain up to date with anything new in, or around, the Arranger field.

Again, it is good to see the "old-timers" still active, and also heartening to see some new posters. It is, however, disappointing to see several long term, and very valuable, members no longer participating.

Now, back to enjoying the incredible spell of 30 C summer weather here on Cape Breton Island...thankfully, I don't have to move gear in this heat!

Best wishes to you and all,

Ian

I got a standing ovation once: when I announced it was my last song

If you think old, ....YOU'LL BE OLD I say!!.......instead of worrying about getting old, or how old you are physically or mentally.....just live life everyday like it was your last.....
I will play & perform professionally till I drop...nuff said.
RETIRE?....not a chance, you'll have plenty of time to rest in your coffin! .... hey..I could have a REAl Job!!!

Carry on..............

Retire does not HAVE to mean REST ... I retired from my day job because I knew it was time to enjoy more of what life has to offer, more often ... Our kids often ask us "where are you off to THIS week?" ... We pretty much do what we want, when we want ... and sometimes that might be just sitting and watching the grass grow ...
I doubt that I will ever RETIRE from doing gigs, but then, the public may make that decision for me ... those times 'between gigs' no doubt will get longer and longer - and if we live long enough it will happen to ALL of us at some point ...

As Donny says "live life..." ... but make sure you live ALL of it ...

Donny, no one is talking about sitting in a rocking chair and waiting to die. What would you do if you didn't drop dead on the job, but instead, had a heart attack or stroke that made it physically impossible to perform? Would you have enough money squirreled away to stay in your home and play with the grand kids? Would you be able to have the same lifestyle that you currently enjoy?

All of those things apparently don't seem important to most full-time musician/entertainers, thus the reason I started this particular thread. I knew so many really great musician/entertainers that left this world flat broke, left their spouses in destitution, and never really were able to take the time to smell the roses because they pissed away every dime they made. Yeah, they lived life like every day was going to be the last one, but those final years were not really much of a life when you put everything in perspective.

Cheers,

Gary

How can you retire if you never had a job?!

I just get paid for doing something I'd be doing anyway... Can't 'retire' from what you love to do!

Retire is a word as other folks see you....usually if you get a ss check you are retired...

Fact: I do the same things I have done for the last 50 plus years..I do what ever I want

I have been fortunate...never had to punch a clock or answer to a supervisor

In reality the question was asked...and the answer ..retire from what?


I still don't know what I want to do ..when I grow up

A little over a year ago, I semi retired. In other words, I opted for early ss and I retired from my church job and my college job. With my church job I had a 403 b which is the same as a 401 k except for a non profit. I had a pretty decent sum in it so I rolled it over into an annuity which will pay me a nice income for several years to come. I was also lucky enough to marry a great woman who has worked as a teacher for many years and so all of my benefits have been covered. I probably wouldn't have been able to have the life I've had without her. And we own several pieces of property, some of which we rent out. The total package looks pretty good. So now I am playing gigs, and only the ones I want to play. We travel a lot. This year we've been to Grand Cayman, the Canadian Maritime Provinces, and I leave for Sedona, AZ on Sunday. Live is good.

Joe

Many of you have been fortunate enough to have music as your only (or main) vocation/profession ... but let's stay REAL ... "do whatever I want???" ... "never punch a clock or answer to a supervisor???" ... As a full time musician with no other income source, I doubt that you are "doing whatever you want", but you are also doing whatever the CLIENT wants ... and as for not "punching a clock", how many times- no matter how much time we allow ourselves to be early - have we 'sweated out' getting to a gig on time because of some totally unforseen occurence? and not "answering to a supervisor", what musician has not answered to a club/restaurant owner or manager, or a bride-to-be, NH Activities Director, or any other client ?!?

Don't get me wrong, being a musician is a WONDERFUL profession because we really enjoy what we do and we help other people have a good time as well, but let's face it - it is not ALL fun and games ... As Uncle Dave has said,call it what you want, but it IS still a JOB!!!

Tony good post......you know my story we had a long discussion on it this week........... I'm on the verge of retiring soon, with some apprehension because I really enjoy my day job work in the IT field, if it weren't for the relocation of our headquarters and the monster commute in the metro Boston area I have I may have stayed on for a couple more years. Bottom line computers became my hobby in the late 90s when the Fortune 500 company I worked for equipped those of us in field sales with laptops. When the opportunity arose at 48 years of age, I took the early retirement program, went back for another degree in the computer support and network sector. Much of the cost of the education was courtesy of the company I worked for, they called it retraining, I liked the program and took it. I've been fortunate getting paid to do my hobby. I'd probably rather play music full time to get paid for it, but I'm real about my talent and/or limitation of talent. There are quite a few fine musicians here, I'm not one of them.

As far as punching a clock the last time I did that was at 18 years old, I do however have account-abilities to the people I work for as we all do in life. Come 2014, I've already had an offer to do remote support on a part time basis for a network consulting company, best part I can work from anywhere in the country, so if we do move south to Florida or any other state in the country, I can work from home and never have to leave the house.

My escape will be with my other interest playing entertaining seniors in NH or assisted living facilities. Working full time has put a damper on that since many ADs were only willing to hire me if I could work during the daytime hours Monday thru Friday. No matter what I do I won't be sitting in the rocking chair for many years to come.

Failing to make adequate preparation for retirement is not failing of musicians only. I ran my own financial services company for 14 years and there are far far more people out there who have not made adequate provision for the retirement than those who have whether they are musicians engineers doctors teachers or scientists. Most people underestimate how much they should be saving each month and most people start saving way too late for their plans to be really effective . The trouble is no one thinks they going to get old and no one thinks that they will need the same money today as they will when they retire.

For many, they realise this error way too late. I have always endeavoured to ensure that the people I have met as a professional adviser but clearly aware of the requirement to save not just for their retirement but in general