http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhWT-D8uYts

Opinions?

Definitely the S950 has a warmer sound....not to mention both KBs arent EQ'd the same either.

I'll try to be more articulated:
1- Jazz-swing: I liked more the S950 sax and the overall Yamaha sound is more polished, but here emerges the big problem with Yamaha: the styles have short loops (usually 4 bars long) and so after a while tend to become repetitive, even if they have live drums, like this one.
2- In the second song the Yamaha piano is more polished, but the Korg has definitely a different equalization and seems more distant. Even the Yamaha strings seem up front.
3- Wonderful tonight, or the big comeback by Korg: the PA-900 has definitely more punch and sounds like a live recording, while the S950 seems more like a studio recording and the overall sound is kind of aseptic, by comparison.
4- Classical: I was expecting a better performance by Yamaha, but was pleasantly surprised by Korg.
5- Country: Korg wins again; same considerations as in Wonderful tonight.
6- Blues: listen to the Korg bass and tell me if you can keep your foot from tapping; the rhythm section is much more like the "real thing", and the same goes for the harmonica and the electric guitar. Overall, I would say that the Korg sounds like a band from the Chicago ghetto and the Yamaha like a band of high school white boys trying to play the blues.
So, in the end the choice is -like always- subjective: do you prefer "Tutti frutti" sung by Little Richard or Pat Boone? Do you prefer the Art Blakey's Jazz Messengers or the Modern Jazz Quartet?

Both keyboards sound very good. However, there are some distinct differences, at least to my aging ears.

The Swing and Jazz rendition sounded much fuller when played on the Yamaha. And, the right hand voices were sensational by comparison.

The piano and string rendition of Lion King was excellent sounding on both. Again, the overall depth provided by Yamaha's piano and the robust quality of the strings was far superior to the Korg.

Unplugged styles used for Wonderful Tonight were great in both keyboards. The song chosen was not really suitable for the style, though. The guitars on both were very good, but again, I would have to give Yamaha the nod for the realism of the guitars.

The Orchestra Tuti styles were both pretty good, but the depth of Yamaha's overall sound was far superior.

The Country Strum was a real toe tapper on both keyboards. The right hand voices on the korg, however, sounded thin. There was far more depth and expression on both the style and right hand voices with the Yamaha.

The blues styles were nearly identical (great style for Mustang Sally). The drums were definitely hotter with the Yamaha, the distortion guitar was outstanding, but Yamaha's harmonica sounded a bit thin.

Obviously, the EQs were set a bit differently, but the difference in EQ probably did not account for the overall differences in sound quality. Overall, for this particular demonstration, which was very, very good and appeared to to compare apples with apples better than any I've previously seen and heard, the nod would, IMO, go to Yamaha. The S-950 had depth, polished sound quality, and better sounding drums. The Korg sounded good, but it seemed to lack the expression and depth I wanted to hear from a quality, arranger keyboard.

A big thanks to the folks in the UK that took the time to put this together,

Gary

... very interesting to read Dreamer's and Gary's opinions ... brought to mind Ricky Nelson's "You can't please everyone but you got to please YOURSELF" ... just further proof to play what YOU enjoy !!! ... before you can please a client YOU have to be happy ...
I would have been surprised if Gary liked the KORG over the Yamaha - he BOUGHT a 950 didn't he ???

Tony, I used to own a Korg i3, but that was many, many years ago. At the time I really liked it. Then I tried out the PSR-500 and sold the Korg the following day. Believe me, I was being very objective with my overall assessment of these two keyboards. I'm still not 100-percent sold on the S950 over my old PSR-3000s, but I'm still in the learning stages with the S950.

Cheers,

Gary

What is extremely important for me is that layered strings or pads would'n sound endlessly when the sustain pedal is pushed. Because otherwise it's practically useless. And I noticed that on Korg there's such a problem. Who knows if it can be fixed?

Hi Kabinopus, I was interested to see your comment, because I have completely the other perspective. It always frustrated me that Yamaha strings would not hold the sustain if the pedal was pushed. In a real musical situation, the strings may continue even when the piano is silent, at least Korg gives that option while your hands are doing something else: changing variation, adding or taking away voices, fills...

So, Tony's Ricki Nelson quote is very appropriate!

Did they change the meaning of "warmth" and "thin"?

In this comparison..I have to disagree with my buds...The Yamaha does not have more warmth than the Korg..in fact it is very digital...and the instrument with the thin sounds are with the Yamaha...

I think it is a case that you guys are just use to Yamaha sounds..

I pretty much agree with Dreamer's view..and I liked his comment about the High school boys..it hit the mark..

Our friend from Russia , had a good comment..the decay of the strings with the piano was very un-natural..

I did think the Korg had the edge with the wonderful tonight demo...but both of these boards are on par with each other...

Makes me glad I own what I play

I'm a Yamaha guy. I own a Tyros 3 and a Motif XF6. After several years with the T3 I have found that I love the acoustic voices particularly the SA and SA2 voices but I think the overall sound of the T3 is too refined, especially drums. The Motif on the otherhand is bold, live and exciting. So I use the T3 only for it's voices and not it's styles. Once you hear the difference with the Motif there is no going back. In this comparison I hear the same thing. The Korg is so much more livelier, especially the drums. At first I thought it was a Reverb difference (more on the Korg and less on the Yamaha) but it is more than that. I thought the Korg won every comparison except maybe for piano. However if there were any SA2 voices on the 950 they would have been better than the Korg version.

1st thing I would like to point out is that my observations below are purely of the demos, not the instruments themselves as I have not heard them live, so the demo may or may not be representative of them.

2nd thing is I am out regular listening to live music of various types and this is what I will be basing my opinions on. (Not in comparison with any other keyboard or recording)

Cool Swing and Acoustic Jazz

Korg gives quite a reasonable sound and certainly has a live feel to it; however the Yamaha is way out of its depth sounding very old. (There is no way it could be mistaken for a real instruments and players)

Piano & Strings

Both Pianos are different but neither gets above ordinary and boring, as to the strings then what have Korg done, as they are the worst strings I have heard in a long time, the Yamaha on the other hand is a more integrated sound but is 1 dimensional and lacks any of the expression that you get with a real string orchestra. (This is possibly because the player is not using an expression pedal though)

Unplugged Style

This is very nicely done on the Korg with quite good realism from most of the instruments and style used, the Yamaha on the other hand has no realism at all and the guitar in the style is diabolical. (Sorry Yamaha but you need a lot more work on this part of the instrument)

Orchestra

Good sounds from both with the Korg sounding the most live; however without an expression pedal there is no chance of either of them sounding remotely like a proper orchestra.

Country Strum

Korg sounds are ok but it sounds like the band is not really interested in what they are playing thus you don’t get the full foot tapping urge, once again the Yamaha guitars really let it down and the style just sends you off to sleep. (You can forget getting folks up to dance or to get their feet tapping with this one Yamaha)

Blues

Always difficult to pull off as there are so many variations, again the Korg sounded as if the musicians where not interested in what they were playing, while the Yamaha was once again very poor in comparison with more work needed to be done by Yamaha to bring it up to scratch.

Overall

The Korg shows good potential but lacks the tightness of the PA800 it replaces, however Korg usually bring out an update that addresses most of the issues. (The PA800 was also rather lacklustre when it first came out)

The Yamaha however appears to be just recycling its past, which means its falling behind in a lot of departments and in many respects is only a small update to the S910 it replaces. (Certainly wouldn’t be worth upgrading an S910 for it unless you were really desperate for the few updates)

Would I buy either from the demos? The answer has to be no, as neither of them float my boat.

NOTE: As I mentioned at the beginning my opinion is purely based on the demos and not the instruments themselves, as I have not tried them myself and so cannot confirm any of their sound & style capabilities.

Bill

In reality this demo means nothing, ....personally I can make any of the existing arranger Kbs on the market of ANY brand sound great in my hands playing,...cocky? No,...just confident in my abilities and experience as a pro player. Too much emphasis on what it sounds like in a demo vs your own talent and what you can make it sound like as a player and your talent to do so. There is no substitute for playing talent period, And thats all that matters first lets be honest here.

It's not really a very good comparison. Once again, it does demonstrate that whether something sounds good or bad is entirely in the hands of the player. Just about any modern MOTL arranger CAN sound great... but only if you PLAY IT GREAT!

This, sadly, is just OK. Admittedly, it's probably at the top end of ability for the vast majority of people who buy arrangers, and hence the demo will work OK for them. But I guarantee, in the hands of a Marc Parisi, or a Ralph Schenk, our job of deciding which is 'better' would be far more difficult.

TBH, I didn't like EITHER arranger very much. At least, not presented like that! Poor choice of styles (the blues one on the Korg was Mustang Sally, slowed down to the point that the style didn't work any more), poor choice of RH sounds (both those arrangers have better string sounds in them, I guarantee!) and dead square playing.

And what's with comparing factory OTS settings? To be quite frank, if you buy an arranger for how it comes out of the box, God help you! You honestly don't think you can improve on them? Time to crack the manual and experiment with the full sound set and effects...

I think a much better comparison is to give a talented player two arrangers, six songs, and a WEEK to find out how to perform them best. That's what most of us do. You don't just call up the first string sound you find. You don't use the first blues pattern you come across...

And, as usual, I'd prefer if these tests were blind. Tell us which was which AFTER you have played the back-to-back. Too many invested in their choice of gear, here, LOL.

In my experience owning both brands ( Pa3x and Psr s900) and having them integrated to play simultaneously I can say I keep swaying from one to the other. There are times I play basically the Korg styles and others the Yamaha's. But I play the psr styles with the Korg drums what makes the big difference. Choosing the best sounding board is only a part of the realism you can get. Yamaha leads on SA voices and smoother chord transitions. Korg leads far ahead on drums and modern styles.
Sometimes I think my ears get bored from one board's sounds and need a change, later I miss the former.

Hello, guys. I still love my S950, but there's curiosity growing inside of me about Korg's stuff (yeah, all men are the same...), I wonder if the screen of PA600/900 supports multi touch. I mean, will I be able to mute several tracks in one touch to the screen, using few fingers, or this machine won't recognize few touches at once? Hope you'd get what I mean.

I am sure you'll get your answer from those that already own the Pa900 or Pa600...
I just wanted to say I like the fact that you can actually drag on screen to adjust the faders, either for mixer (volume level) or for the drawbar organ. Sweet!

There is still no multi-touch capability on current arranger touch screens. One thing at a time.

In fairness, in the heat of performance, I think I am comfortable with that! Or I might get unintended results if a secondary finger accidentally touches the screen.

All Korg has to do is to go back to having a mute button at the bottom of each slider, as they did on the i30. None of their models since then have had this simple solution. Of course, none of this applies to the Pa600 or Pa900, but would be a godsend on the Pa3X and any subsequent multi-slider keyboards.

With the mute buttons you could knock out a single track, or a bunch of tracks simultaneously, if you wanted to.

124, thanks, but I didn't understand from that if it's possible to press several buttons on the screen of PA600/900 simultaneously. I read the manual, and saw there some mute buttons on the screen.

There's a big difference between physical buttons and touch screen ones. 124 was talking about the Korg i30, which had no touch screen, but physical sliders and real buttons.

Kabinopus, I don't know about any multiple touch buttons on the screen of either the 600 or the 900. Those who own one of those could give you an answer. I suspect that the capability is as it has always been on Korg touchscreens, that is, mute just the voices that are displayed. A little icon of a track's instrument is shown which, by touching it, mutes the track and an 'M' icon shows.

Yes, that's right Diki, but not forgetting that the i30 did indeed have a touch screen. Not as versatile as these newer boards, of course, but pretty comprehensive at the time. Those physical mute buttons (as is the case with physical sliders) were far more useful in live play. Korg really needs to reintroduce them on future models.

I love the touch screen on Pa3X, but I seldom use the mute buttons. It's easier to just pull the sliders down.
Nice to have both options though.
DonM

Yep, I've done both on the i30, and with the Pa1X I'm a slider pusher (no buttons on 'er). Physical mute buttons on the 3X then, Don? I thought the i30 was the last board to have them.

Oh, I've got you, Don. You were talking about the on-screen mute icons.

Another one...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wnnFAJRYI4

I think Pa900 produces a much nicer sound - richer, warmer, clearer and wider.

I agree, the Korg guitar sound gave a better impression of a real guitar than the Yamaha; however I think if Yamaha ditched the smooth closed in (CD) quality sound then it could really be a force to be reckoned with.

Bill

Sound is subjective, but the S950 sounds a tad better to my ears. Both are very good, nonetheless.

Ian

Well, having no stake in either one of these keyboards, perhaps I can offer another opinion? LOL

They both sounded equally good. Amazingly similar, to be quite frank, coming from different manufacturers. Neither, to my ears, had any commanding lead, and both, if played well (like the demonstrator did) do a very similar job of convincing you you are listening to a real guitar.

I think the only minor differences I heard were more to do with subtle differences in velocity response and key touch. Obviously, there's a vast difference between the FEEL of those two arrangers' actions (something no demo is ever going to show you!) and this is likely to produce some differences (I felt that the Korg had a hair more range, but also feel that was more to velocity response than actual sound).

But overall, in these kinds of shootouts, it's better to have them be 'blind'. One always looks for vindication in one's purchasing decisions, and seeing each keyboard played, especially when two such almost identical sounds, always tends to influence the decision. Simply LISTEN (close your eyes) to this and start it randomly in the middle, I have my doubts many can tell them apart..!

One way or another, these are great acoustic sounds

from electronic keyboards.

They both sound incredible and yes, played very well

by the demonstrator.

Frank

I have to say, I am amazed that no one seems to notice (or appreciate) the huge difference between the one dimensional sound in S950 and the full, nicely spread in stereo sound of Pa900!

To me, that one detail says it all. Of course, the fundamental sound is perceived subjectively and to my ears too the samples are not earth to sky apart, I agree with you, but the way that sound is... sounding, it's very different.

Some will say it is just the patch effects. But I don't believe that, as also in the previous comparison I noticed the same - the sound in Yamaha is not delivering the same overall sensation of realism and depth. And I am not talking about SA vs DNC.

Anyway, doing Diki's blind test only revealed this more strongly to me. It's worth nothing, but I was able to tell them apart easily! I even transformed the downloaded YT into a mp3 and analysed it in the editor. Korg is just better.

But of course you should trust your ears. I trust mine - otherwise we'd go crazy with so many opinions!

Actually, a guitar is a mono instrument! Unless you are listening to it VERY close up, all sound appears to come from a single point.

If you are hearing spatializing differences (I was trying to listen to the guitar, silly me!) then that comes down to the choice of reverb used, and the depth of that reverb... which may be something that can easily be changed on the Yamaha.

Add to that you get considerable control over mastering EQ's and compression, and, unless all of this is taken off both arrangers (and the guitar recorded dry) you really aren't comparing apples to apples.

The same user posted some more...

Sax http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQTp8RvOBhc
El piano http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qmISelQ3x0
Steel G http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kyeQrW-feQ
Harmonica http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PXyF8Eosn8

Korg Pa900 rocks.

For a minute I thought Diki was back!! BTW he still administers the Roland forum.

but no way to register on the new roland arranger forum whats sup with that??

I think you have to send a message and then they will register you.

did that a few times no replay...weird

although i can log on to the legacy old forum??

Yes, but I think you have to join this one first.
Not sure. Send Diki a message.

ok Ill try it again.........Grrrrrrrr

Last year i was able to register...

Dont think i remmeber my password tough..

I recently had the S970 and the Pa4x side by side in my studio. The Bose was used for both keyboards – same settings. No EQ on either keyboard.

I found the S970 to be thinner in sound. The pa4x was far ahead with Big Band and Latin.
M
y bottom line ---- The pa4x sounded like the band I would hire for my next wedding. I took a loss and sent the S970 back. (I will miss the large selection of styles for Yamaha. My thought has always been; don’t divide your creating with two different keyboards – you have to lose something. Only my opinion.

John C.

Good move and good luck,.... enjoy the Pa4x it's awesome..