Please excuse me if this video was previously posted here on the arranger forum. This guy can really play by the way.

You simply can't do this kind of thing on a 61 key arranger or even a 76 key arranger. Which begs the question. Is this the best way to go? That is to say an 88 key controller keyboard for piano sounds hooked up along side a 61 key arranger for everything else? A two tiered approach seems to be the ultimate solution to an age old problem, which is, mid-level and high-end arrangers have too few keys for full range piano playing. Octave buttons simply won't suffice in instances such as this. Yes, you will pay extra for two pieces of equipment but the results can be fabulous as this gentleman proves. And to top if off he's no spring chicken either!



All the best, Mike

PS: Even an 88 key arranger couldn't do what this guy does with his two keyboard setup. What is that saying again? "Double your pleasure, double your fun?" No, not gum fellas. Keyboards!

Simply Awesome !!!!! I do admire Musicians that can play like that.....

Tommy can sure play! I think it would be possible to get pretty close to what he is doing (assuming the player has the skills) with just a CVP series Clavinova (88 keys) and carefully set up registrations.

A little off this topic, Mike, but are you interested in the Roland BK-9?

You have mentioned, many times, the need for a lightweight 76-note arranger, that didn't cost a lot of money, and the BK-9 looks to be in that ballpark.

Have you tried one yet, and would it be something that would meet your needs?

Ian

Great playing! I that this gentleman would love have having a chord sequencer ( Roland BK 9 or Korg PA 600/900) That would sure free up his LH...

Good point, Paul.

Ian

Mike, thanks for posting this. It was a real pleasure to listen to and watch this guy perform. He's really into it, which is evidenced by the rhythm keep with his left foot just jumping up and down.

Hey, watch that No Spring Chicken stuff - he's probably younger than me.

Thanks again,

Gary

If you take a REAL close look at his hands, you'll see that he plays a bare handful of notes outside the 76 note range. Hardly enough to warrant lugging a big heavy 88 around. If you need a section where your hands DO both go to the extremes of an 88, it is fairly simply to program an OTS to leave a gap in the middle of the keyboard and transpose the lower down an octave.

But take a look at where he is playing, it hardly seems needed. I am fairly confident I could do the same style without needing an 88 and no-one would notice. So much of how we feel about playing seems to come from what we see while we listen. Without that, I doubt that many of us could tell whether he was using an 88 or not.

But yes... it certainly would help him to have a CS, as there's no change in the backing chords at all.

He's a real powerhouse in the style, a great player. But he could quite easily do the exact same thing with just ONE 76...

This fellow knocked my socks off when I first heard him a few years back. I just happened to listen to some of his songs that I have of him a few days before this thread was started (Johnny B Good, In the Mood, Old Cape Cod, Sweet Georgia Brown, etc). I got a completely different impression this time around. After I finished listening to Sweet Georgia Brown I felt like I was walking away from a train wreck. My nerves were shattered!

Too many notes.....no spaces...no breathing of the instruments. Even Old Cape Cod was what I considered "butchered." The song is a beautiful piece of work.....but the lead line should be handled more delicately. Improvise all you want, but.......gently, it's a "gentle" song!

Diki wrote: "He's a real powerhouse in the style, a great player."

I agree with that..."a real powerhouse".......but I don't think he's a GREAT player. I think he is a GOOD player, but I don't think he is a great musician. I couldn't listen to more than the songs I have already. He wears you down with his playing.

Another thing that disappointed me is that I notice he seems to do everything in the key of C....even Georgia Brown, which was written in G. I lost a bit of respect there.

Aside from that, he seems like a genuinely nice guy, somewhat humble also. I'm just a little ticked off that when I first heard him years ago, I got a bit intimidated with what he was doing. This time around, I see the flaws....he's great at what he does, but it seems that's ALL he does. I think anyone playing ONE style day in and day out, is bound to be good at it!

A great musician to me can play in more than the key of C (the easiest of all), and can do a complete about face from that upbeat stuff to a slow and meaningful ballad and make the ballad "work" also! I wasn't impressed with his Old Cape Cod.

I think he is extremely talented, and obviously imprints his personal style onto everything he does.

I have seen/heard many players fill in what should be a space with continued runs up and down a keyboard, glissandos, and waterfalls . It works sometimes, but not between every bar of music or true phrase of melody. It was a common trait among old cleveland-style accordion polka players. Using it over and over in the same song doesn't make it sound better, and I totally agree with Mark in saying it clutters up what are supposed to be simple melodies written with the intent to be played as such.

When I played mandolin and guitar with a band in the early eighties, I played with a style to make pretty songs sound just that. A former band member of mine always said that playing a thousand notes per second is not the only definition of a good player. I did that when required for some bluegrass tunes however.

Around the same time, I once went into a guitar store and was playing some country licks with slides and bending notes when the owner came to me and said" It's so nice to hear someone come in and play like that after spending the day listening to kids playing distorted metal styles all day long". That was something that stayed with me to this day.

Come on fellas. Your not really being fair to the player. He didn't post this work up for us to critique someone else did just to show how having more keys could open up your playing style .It's clear he's just playing to have fun and its not a performance of any kind . For the style if playing that he does it is fine. I just don't think it's nice to critique someone just having fun. I will shut up now 😊

If you choose to post your work online, what the hell do you think it is up there for? So everyone can pat you on the back and tell you what a great fella you are? If that were true, that would be an even more damning condemnation of the act...

The truth is, anyone that posts ANYTHING on the web opens themselves to criticism AND praise. In fact, to perform for anyone other than simply yourself is to invite them both. Mind you, if you are honest about your own playing, even playing alone doesn't insulate yourself from criticism! It's how we get better.

Now, that doesn't mean that all criticism is valid (nor is all praise!), and everyone is free to make their own minds up about a performance, whether for good or bad. And everyone ELSE is free to decide if they agree with the opinion offered, whether good or bad. But basically, if you offer yourself up on the web for all to see, you ARE going to get both. Only a fool would think that everyone is going to love what you do, and only a fool would think that, just because they MIGHT have put it up just as a bit of fun, that insulates it from critical judgement.

If you don't want criticism, better not post anything, ever! But then you also end up not getting praised, either. Nothing ventured, nothing gained...

Actually, it's pretty hard to get an honest opinion most places.
Most people say something nice no matter how bad it is. That really doesn't help us get better or make changes for the better.
I tend to just not say anything if I think something is bad. after all, my opinion isn't worth that much anyway.
However if you ASK for it, I'm not shy about making suggestions. I do try to make them in a positive way though.
As Diki says though, if you post a song for all the world to see, you will get criticism, usually both good and bad.
I didn't comment on this performance mainly because the guy said he was "just practicing".
DonM

I really didn't post my remarks to be mean-spirited. My intention was to help make newbie keyboard players aware that what you see is not always what it appears to be. Hopefully keep them from getting unnecessarily discouraged like I did.

In my early years, I was "intimidated" by so many players I encountered who seemed to be world-class....then came the Internet and it got even more confusing. Many will portray themselves off as "fully-developed" musicians anxious to get a slice of the adulation pie! Presto, zippo....make a video with your I-phone, put it on Youtube and proudly show it to family, neighbors, friends, co-workers, your dog, etc

I still have to remind myself, when I watch someone on a video, that maybe the song/songs this person plays were the only 6 songs he knows and plays them daily, morning, noon and night, and once more before he goes to bed! But the performer forgot to mention that.

Honestly, if I were just starting out today playing an instrument, I'd take one look at all these deceptive video's and maybe pack it in and switch careers. There should be qualifiers that go with all these Youtube shots. In Tommy's case it would be something like: "Don't get discouraged by what you hear....keep in mind this is my own style, I practice everything this way, and I can't play in any other key but C.


Reference....this trend to praise everyone who posts a demo, not just here but other groups too. I never understood why everyone feels obligated to dish out those remarks: "great job" "thanks for posting this" "keep 'em coming," etc. Many I think truly deserve such remarks, but there are just as many who should be advised they are not quite up to snuff and to go back to the drawing boards!

When I was learning (and playing out), I couldn't give two hoots about positive comments. I went out of my way to ask friends, audience members, even the club owners NOT what was right about my performance, but what was WRONG....what could I improve on, did I make obvious mistakes, how is my own personal style coming across to the audience, can you think of other songs I should be playing, OR.....songs I should NOT be playing, etc? And I used the feedback to get progressively better.

Now, if everyone is "good" then there is no "bad" to benchmark it against. "Good" becomes meaningless because it exists in a vacuum by itself. It's like "beautiful" and "ugly." How can "beautiful" exist if there is no "ugly" to compare it with.

I think anyone who is good, just knows by instinct they are "good!" Why would you need to hear it again from someone else?


But...I have to say, I do admire those folks who do dish out the compliments. I think they are genuinely caring people out to encourage others (who they recognize NEED encouragement)!

Very true words, Mark.

I have always been one of the 'What do I need to do to get better?' kind of guys, too. I didn't really ever need much in the way of encouragement, the music itself always drove me, and it was easy to spot what my strengths were. A lot harder to spot your own weaknesses, though!

I've always learned more from having something ripped than having kudos for it.

Overall, I find continually taping yourself, and taking the time to LISTEN to it, critically, is probably the best feedback. In the end, whether it's what everyone else expects or not, musically, what I'm playing is a deliberate decision. But while you are playing, you never quite get the chance to be pure critic. But later, it's usually easy to spot whether your vision worked or not. But there have been many times I've ripped myself on the spot, only to listen to playback and go 'Well, wasn't quite what I thought was coming, but it actually worked!' and cut myself a bit more slack next time!

But no-one ever got better from continually being told how great they were... It's the brickbats that do the most good, not the kudos.

Very true.

It's a shame That the guy in the video tommy isn't here to respond to some of your comments. That's what I object to. It amounts to criticising someone behind their back. Sure you can do it if you want to if that's how you feel. I just think its kind of lame when the guy just posted clips of himself having fun.

Some here say that If you expose your music to the world you must accept folks to criticise. That's true. But should we be the guys criticising without invitation and can it be done more constructively than picking apart a fellow musicians abilities without his knowledge ?

It's just my opinion. Do what you feel is appropriate.

You play out in public, whether at a concert or on the internet, you will NEVER be able to hear or read everything said about you.

How is this any different..?

You go to a concert, see an act, then talk about it afterwards, perhaps critically. Do you feel guilty for 'talking behind his back' doing that? Of course you don't!

This is pretty ridiculous, spalding.

The mere act of performing in public is an INVITATION to criticism or praise. If you want to remain in control of what anyone can say about your playing, don't ever let them hear you play! That's the only way you can do it.

Do you have anything up anywhere for all to hear? If so, did you do it in the expectation that you would remain in control of what others think of it? I doubt it.

It's not about control Diki It's about respect for a fellow musician and good manners ....But you i understand if you cant grasp that .

If someone has posted their work to be critiqued then fair dinkum . You are a professional and if you perform for an audience who have come to hear you and they don't like it then they have every right to criticise what you delivered to them .

But If are doing something for your own pleasure and you posted up your jam session or dance or trick just for the fun of it then its pretty lame in my book to take that as an invitation to criticise someone just having fun . its like watching the guy on the dance floor having fun who is mot the best dancer and critiquing his poise or balance or rhythm . Why can't it just be taken for what it is ? Just a guy having great fun on his instrument ? Some times I wonder if anyone here remembers that playing an instrument can just be for fun ....

That's why I think all this criticism is distasteful and unfair and frankly quite petty. But I am the fool here . Look who I am trying to explain good manners too ...I am done here . Best of luck to you all. I enjoyed being on the synthzone and for the most part it's been Fun .I guess I am just becoming too sensitive to the usual chat . Take care. Worth

There is a place to post comments on the youtube page under the video. That seems to be the most direct way to say your peace where it will be read by the one who submitted the video.

BS, plain and simple, spalding, If you are naive enough to think that you can control what people say about YOUR music, boy are you in for a shock. If you are naive enough to think that, if you put it out there for people to see, they should, out of some weird kind of deference to your delicate feelings, never say a bad thing, I am not sure what planet you live on..!

Honestly, man, have you EVER put anything up for anyone to listen to? Did you honestly think that it was everybody's duty to say ONLY nice things about it? That is one pretty delicate ego if you did.

Children, yes... you encourage them. Grown ups? Well, 'grown up' seems to be somewhat lacking in this exchange. You want to be treated like a child? Inform us in advance...

The bottom line is this. One needs to look at the bigger picture. I always said: “You can do anything you want, but be aware of how you are affecting others with your actions.” You can’t live in a vacuum unaware and unconcerned that people from all stations of life are going to watch your video and come away with different reactions. That doesn’t really mean you have to accompany that video with explanatory comments, but it does mean you leave yourself open if others want to critique and use you an an example.

People like Tommy post these videos because it’s either promotional advertising for them or they are on an ego trip out to impress. I think Tommy falls into the latter. Now there’s nothing wrong with that, but if you’re on an ego trip and out to improve your self-worth and amaze your friends at the same time with your talent, then you also have a moral obligation to recognize and consider how many beginner musicians are going to watch this video and be affected by it. How many are going to think they’ll never get to that level when, in reality, that level was never really that high? Professional musicians who can see through these illusionary videos do a great service by pointing out the reality of those performances. As for hurting Tommy’s feeling…..it’s called collateral damage!

I get your point that he never “asked” for criticism, but....do you care more about poor Tommy’s emotional injuries, that he might be insulted (or dejected) over these remarks, or do you care more about the huge amount of people around the world that may be (musically) negatively affected and discouraged from pursuing their dreams when they see a video like this. In a way, it is nothing more than a con worked on people who don‘t know any better, particularly the great majority of new musicians working their way into the ranks.

To be fair to Tommy, I see him as a very nice person who just plain enjoys his music and, innocently, wanted to share it with others. Unfortunately, he became, in this thread, the poster child for the many videos we watch that are, shall I say, deceptive?

Further, there is someone in this group, who gets many compliments when he periodically posts a song. The playing is good, but I always wonder...is it typical of his playing OR did he simply work on this one song for weeks until he ironed out all the wrinkles? Is he another Tommy Johnson doing what he does well, but....that’s ALL he does...one song at a time until it's perfected? (no...it’s not Don M...he’s just plain good...no magic show there...he's the real thing!)

Mark

As anybody been to his website (Shown at the beginning of the video) to see what he is really about, if not, I suggest you do. (In case you missed it here is the direct link http://www.tommyjohnsonmusic.com/ )

Bill

Visit his website, read his bio. I know Tommy and he is NOT a "one trick pony".

He is a showman, artist, and gentleman.

C_K

I know him too and I agree.

Really Don, I didn't know that, I always thought people on SZ were honest, tell you straight to your PC what they think, warts and all, I try and say it as it is, always have, too late to change now

You guys need to get out more. First and foremost, Tommy Johnson didn't post anything here - his YouTube video was posted by Mike (Keybplayer). Be realistic - this guy is a great entertainer, a great player, and 99-percent of the guys that posted negatively about the YouTube video ONLY WISH they could play half as good. It's pretty damned easy to sit there pounding on the PC keys and post demeaning comments about someone you've never met, never seen perform a full, live performance, and yet, after you've seen one YouTube video there are now three pages of bullshit by the same, handful of individuals. If you're so damned good, post something of your own on YouTube and provide the Sythzone with links to these wonderful performances.

Sorry Nigel, but there are just some things that really tend to piss this old codger off. If you wish to ban me for the above comments I'll fully understand.

Gary

I don't know about others; but if we were taking a vote, I'd side with the logic and comments of Spalding and Travelin' Easy.

here...here...

Well said travlin’ easy, Spalding too.

Count me in with Spalding and Gary...well said, guys!

Ian

Gary....may I ask HOW you came to your conclusion? I agree that he is good player, but how did you decide that he is a “great entertainer?”


Why does one have to “play half as good” to post a comment about someone else? Does a “restaurant reviewer” have to be a great chef in order to make comments about a restaurant? Does a movie reviewer have to direct his own movies in order to express his opinion about a film? Do we have to be politicians to criticize actual politicians?

I’m not sure what “wishing you could play half as good” as someone else has to do with making a judgment call on that person?


If you’ve read the thread closely, you will note there were no “demeaning” comments made. There were just “comments!” Like Diki said....when you throw yourself out into the public arena, you’re inviting “comments”....both good and bad. When Baskin-Robbins introduces a new flavor, do you get arrested if you don’t say positive things about it? Is the SynthZone and the many Yahoo groups here so that we can all express opinions about everything and anything we want to express opinions about? Do we live in a world where everyone plays their instruments just “wonderfully” and we, in turn, have to play nicey-nice to everyone so as not to offend?


So you’re saying here that before we make remarks about anyone, we have to have a YouTube video of ourselves primed and ready to go?


I don’t know....I’ve seen at least four of them! My comments remain the same....he played them all in the Key of C (I’m sure you’d agree that most players can easily improvise in the key of C). And he seems to play the same style all the time. Show me a great ballad that he does and I’ll certainly change my tune....Old Cape Cod (one of my favorite songs) doesn’t cut it for me....doesn’t leave me on a “high” like Patti Page’s simple, relaxed version does.


Now, it never ceases to amaze me that readers see only what they want to see in a post. This wasn’t an attack on Tommy….personally I think he’s a nice fellow judging from how he talks. But it WAS an observation about his playing. No one said he was incompetent as a player. I made the point about him “playing everything I heard in the key of C” and that he also seems to play everything “in the same style” and that I didn’t like his rendition of “Old Cape Cod!” What’s the big deal?

I like the way Rory plays, and I like to listen to Don M, and I like how Joe Ayala puts his songs across (Sway, The Way You Look Tonight, etc), and I said that too. Do you also get crucified for making POSITIVE remarks?

The point of my message was....“not everything is as it appears“....and up and coming musicians who are just beginners and view, what are considered, “knock-out” videos should be taught to question what they‘re watching. Maybe that powerhouse player giving that powerhouse performance is not the actual “powerhouse” in other areas of music!

I can’t make a better example than this: When I was a kid, I was watching a really excellent band. They did everything perfectly. And then....the female vocalist who was playing great keyboards suddenly put a guitar on and played it flawlessly . I was absolutely stunned by her versatility as a singer, keyboard player, and, now, a guitarist. But, at the end of her set, when I spoke to her, she winked at me and revealed....she “only knew three songs on the guitar” but....NO ONE IN THE AUDIENCE KNEW THAT! Until she said that, I was pretty discouraged just trying to learn ONE instrument!

So...that’s the way I’ve learned to view a lot of these many Youtube videos....with a grain of salt! Show me a mix of what you can do on that keyboard, play in different keys, different styles, show me you can emotionalize a tune and mostly, show me you’re not going for a world record for the most notes anyone can put in a song....and then I will be a “believer” that you’re a true all-around musician or entertainer!

P.S. So.....Gary....you seemed to have gotten your knickers in a twist. Did this help to "un-twist" them?

Mark

Perhaps, before you even say something positive about a clip, you should have something of your own out too? I mean, if your logic is anything valid, BOTH sides of this argument should stand.

Not to mention, I believe I've put up stuff before. So it's OK? LOL

Mark, I never mentioned your name. Come to think of it, I didn't mention anyone on this forum's name. I rest my case.

Cheers,

Gary

Almost forgot, I've put up lots of stuff, too.

Sorry, Gary.....I guess I got my own knickers in a twist!!!

Saying you don't like somebody's style is fine- we all differ to an extent. But if you or more importantly others are entertained by it, there's no need to break it down to simpler parts to make yourself feel better. It's like the guy who watches Chris Angel or another performer like him, then has to expose all of their "tricks". They, like musicians, are entertainers. There is no need to bring someone else down to feel better about yourself because you didn't understand or couldn't imitate what the performer seems to be doing. Magic isn't magic per say, and neither is musicianship. It should be viewed for its entertainment value not as an attack on anothers abilities. One's level of playing ability is proportionate to your dedication to learning and hours of practice, practice, practice and not just "natural" talent. Of course, the fact is that getting to true "pro" level or celebrity can afford more people and/or technology around them making sure things look and sound as polished as possible. But in this case, I can't believe the focus of Tommy's videos is to "fool" watchers into being impressed. Whether or not you like his style, he had to work to get to the level of skill he has. Being a spoiler or revealing someones "tricks" does not elevate your own level of skill or intellect. In my opinion, entertainers and their performances are not put out there as a challenge or insult to anyone else..in this case, it seems to be to share the fun he is having with others.

Well said, Sparky.

I think you need to read what I wrote again, and maybe take your time this time around and digest it. There was no attack on Tommy. How many different ways can I make my point until someone actually gets it.....my point (quoted above)?

I sometimes get the feeling there are Diki's and then there are Diki wannabe's....who, by the way, can never fill Diki's shoes when it comes to tearing up a poster....or ignoring the actual point the poster is trying to make. But, then, now that Boo isn't around, Diki's really a good "fill-in" for entertainment!

Mark