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#371872 - 09/11/13 07:40 AM
Forget about Michael Buble !
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Senior Member
Registered: 05/05/00
Posts: 1384
Loc: koudekerke, Holland.
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This guy has been around the block for 55 years, performing that is. This guy has sold more records worldwide than any other artist, dead or alive. This guy is releasing his 100th album ( compilations included) on November 11th. This guy still goes on tour every year, and during the last five years he has done a bigband tour ( Bold as Brass) an soul tour including icons from the past such as Fifth Dimension, Percy Sledge, etc.( Soulicious ) and has released DVD recordings of each and everyone of them, generally topping the charts in the UK and other countries. This guy started out in 1958 with a Rock and Roll Classic. This guy is now releasing an album trailers of which can be heard if you go to Youtube and type : Cliff Richard-Mix From The New Album 'The Fabulous Rock 'n' Roll Songbook' part 1 ( recorded at Nashville in May 2013) And while you are at it, there are thousands and thousands of clips and recordings of him on youtube. For some reason , apparently due to the lack of musical taste of Americans  he only had three major hits in the USA. But he is a legend both in Europe as well as in the far east, Japan, Australia , South Africa, you name it............. Oh and his best album ever was recorded in Nashville as well in 2006. Here is a song from that album: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNWAomgOirAEnjoy ! John
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#371888 - 09/11/13 04:16 PM
Re: Forget about Michael Buble !
[Re: john smies]
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Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14318
Loc: NW Florida
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Generally, the use of Auto-tune isn't often the artist's decision. And there is enough live footage of Bublé singing to make it obvious he don't NEED it. I've heard Celine Dion subjected to Auto-tune on records... anyone think SHE needs it? It's part of the modern producers arsenal of tools, and usually over-used. Try this... listen to the 'fan' singing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cw1uLVSl1Y His intonation gets suspect, but Bublé's doesn't. Same mike. Cut the guy some frickin' slack. And really... Cliff Richard as a comparison? Apples and oranges. Not to mention, if you want to be fair, wait until Bublé has had 55 years to build a resumé! Cliffy's OK, but he didn't even compare to his contemporaries. Remember, he was doing his thing when Sinatra WAS at his peak of maturity, and no sane person is going to compare Cliffy to Sinatra as a singer..! Legend? Maybe, but not for being the greatest singer ever, LOL
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!
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#371919 - 09/12/13 11:51 AM
Re: Forget about Michael Buble !
[Re: john smies]
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Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14318
Loc: NW Florida
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So, disagreeing with you is due to tunnel vision, John? That's a pretty high degree of regard you have for JUST your opinion..! The world consumes more American music than any other non-native form. In fact, most pop music around the world (including Cliffy's stuff) owes its form and sound to American music. Jazz, rock and roll, hiphop, these all have huge influence around the world. Cliffy couldn't cut it here. It was easy to spot how derivative he was. We already had far better, and more original. And even England had better and more original. Don't forget, that's where I am originally from. Cliffy was a contemporary of the Beatles, the Stones... He is a minor player in that company. Don't get me wrong... Cliffy's OK... but to put him in the pantheon of geniuses and masters from that era is a stretch. Tunnel vision, you might even say... 
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!
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#371924 - 09/12/13 02:44 PM
Re: Forget about Michael Buble !
[Re: Diki]
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Senior Member
Registered: 05/05/00
Posts: 1384
Loc: koudekerke, Holland.
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#371952 - 09/13/13 02:35 PM
Re: Forget about Michael Buble !
[Re: john smies]
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Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14318
Loc: NW Florida
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Once again, the confusion between 'entertainer' and 'artist' comes up here.
Who should get the most respect? I would hazard a guess that the 'entertainers' here probably elevate their own kind more than the 'musicians', the artists, creative trendsetters, pathfinders of the musical world.
Cliffy is a follower. Sinatra was a leader. Plain and simple.
Now, don't get me wrong. I think 'Summer Holiday' was one of the first films I went to see at a cinema (I was 6) and I always liked his hits, even into the 80's. The Shadows almost defined a 'sound' for a generation (although they leaned pretty hard on American surf guitar). In fact, I'd say influentially, the Shadows had more of an impact on music than Cliffy ever did.
Sometimes, you have to step back from what you liked as a kid, and try to put it into some kind of true perspective. The Beatles survive this kind of scrutiny. I'm sorry, but IMHO, Cliffy doesn't. He was part of the soundtrack of my childhood, and I'll never forget his catchy hits. But that's where it stops. He never influenced pop music, and never will. I like the reference to Matt Munroe. That's where Cliffy belongs... The 'almost made it' tribe. Just big enough to be remembered, not big enough to shape the future of pop.
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!
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#371954 - 09/13/13 02:45 PM
Re: Forget about Michael Buble !
[Re: Diki]
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Senior Member
Registered: 05/05/00
Posts: 1384
Loc: koudekerke, Holland.
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Sometimes, you have to step back from what you liked as a kid, and try to put it into some kind of true perspective. The Beatles survive this kind of scrutiny. I'm sorry, but IMHO, Cliffy doesn't. He was part of the soundtrack of my childhood, and I'll never forget his catchy hits.
For starters Diki, there is no accounting for taste. So I have NO problem whatsoever with you thinking whatever you like about CR. I have been a modest fan for many years but I am not an addict, if you get my drift. I do find fault though with folks misrepresenting facts , worse with blatant ignorance. Cliff Richard, au contraire with the Beatles and even the Stones, continued making contemporary music ( as in : belonging to the period in which it was produced) for many many years. As a matter of fact he had his greatest hit in 1979 with WE DONT TALK ANYMORE and DEVIL WOMAN. A string of hits followed in the 1980s but after that he became blacklisted in the British media. Whatever.............. If you listen to his 2006 Nashville album with 15 contemporary songs penned by 15 different composers , it ouzes quality and musicality. A long long way from Summer Holiday. If you got stuck in the past as far as Cliff music is concerned, do not blame the artist with the same disease my friend. And if you are happy dancing your days away on the old Sinatra stuff, be my guest regards, John
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#371957 - 09/13/13 04:15 PM
Re: Forget about Michael Buble !
[Re: john smies]
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Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14318
Loc: NW Florida
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Paul McCartney, John Lennon, even George Harrison had hits WAY past the dissolution of the Beatles (until some of their lives were tragically cut short). Wings alone probably outsold and out-influenced anything Cliffy ever did post-Shadows. The Stones continue to tour attracting numbers that Cliffy can only dream about. Not to mention influencing a generation (or two!) of rock bands.
Sorry, but I am not posting in ignorance of what Cliffy has done since the sixties. In fact, I remember covering all those 70's 80's tunes at the time they came out, and no-one here is misrepresenting facts or being blatantly ignorant. But take a look at the first post you put up here, and try to imagine why you feel the need to compare him to a kid that has been big only a handful of years. And performs in an utterly different style.
But start to compare Cliffy to his contemporaries, and look at his legacy in comparison, it's easy to see that Cliffy is no giant, despite still being popular. So maybe that's why you choose Bublé as a foil to compare him to? Against his REAL contemporaries, he is nothing more than a decent pop singer. He never wrote a hit, his backing band had huge hits without him, and despite being a really nice guy, and a good singer, has never really influenced pop.
I think you don't understand my position here. I don't dislike Cliffy in the slightest, always enjoyed his hits, loved the Shadows, and appreciate his position as a philanthropist and popularity to people of his generation and region.
But somehow, blasting the taste of Americans because they never took him into their hearts seems such a cheap shot, I felt it needed replying to. We took the Beatles and the Stones, along with even Jerry and the Pacemakers and many others in during the British Invasion. That Cliffy couldn't manage this is more a reflection on him, his music and his management than it is the taste of Americans. In fact, we gave him his shot... he appeared on the Ed Sullivan show, just like the Beatles. But he was mostly marketed at the time in England as the British Elvis Presley... and America already had the real thing! Don't tell me you compare him to Elvis, now! LOL
He got his shot, and America decided they didn't need ANOTHER Elvis. But they sure needed something fresh... the Beatles. If that's an indictment of American taste, I sure don't see it! If anything, it's a ringing endorsement. Unlike so many still swooning over him, America decided it could tell the difference between the real thing and an imitation. Cliffy is lucky Europe couldn't...
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!
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#371959 - 09/13/13 04:42 PM
Re: Forget about Michael Buble !
[Re: Diki]
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Member
Registered: 08/24/04
Posts: 666
Loc: City of Angels in the golden s...
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Paul McCartney, John Lennon, even George Harrison had hits WAY past the dissolution of the Beatles (until some of their lives were tragically cut short). Wings alone probably outsold and out-influenced anything Cliffy ever did post-Shadows. The Stones continue to tour attracting numbers that Cliffy can only dream about. Not to mention influencing a generation (or two!) of rock bands.
Sorry, but I am not posting in ignorance of what Cliffy has done since the sixties. In fact, I remember covering all those 70's 80's tunes at the time they came out, and no-one here is misrepresenting facts or being blatantly ignorant. But take a look at the first post you put up here, and try to imagine why you feel the need to compare him to a kid that has been big only a handful of years. And performs in an utterly different style.
But start to compare Cliffy to his contemporaries, and look at his legacy in comparison, it's easy to see that Cliffy is no giant, despite still being popular. So maybe that's why you Uchoose Bublé as a foil to compare him to? Against his REAL contemporaries, he is nothing more than a decent pop singer. He never wrote a hit, his backing band had huge hits without him, and despite being a really nice guy, and a good singer, has never really influenced pop.
I think you don't understand my position here. I don't dislike Cliffy in the slightest, always enjoyed his hits, loved the Shadows, and appreciate his position as a philanthropist and popularity to people of his generation and region.
But somehow, blasting the taste of Americans because they never took him into their hearts seems such a cheap shot, I felt it needed replying to. We took the Beatles and the Stones, along with even Jerry and the Pacemakers and many others in during the British Invasion. That Cliffy couldn't manage this is more a reflection on him, his music and his management than it is the taste of Americans. In fact, we gave him his shot... he appeared on the Ed Sullivan show, just like the Beatles. But he was mostly marketed at the time in England as the British Elvis Presley... and America already had the real thing! Don't tell me you compare him to Elvis, now! LOL
He got his shot, and America decided they didn't need ANOTHER Elvis. But they sure needed something fresh... the Beatles. If that's an indictment of American taste, I sure don't see it! If anything, it's a ringing endorsement. Unlike so many still swooning over him, America decided it could tell the difference between the real thing and an imitation. Cliffy is lucky Europe couldn't... Diki has some good points and he is a Brit (like Cliff , may be naturalized now), John. I believe Cliff played too safe in his mid and late career and that's why where he is now.Still a legend. It's like comparing say Scorpions (Cliff) to Led zeppelin (Sinatra). Most of the world consume US/UK music (generally speaking) as western music (not talking classic music here) and most influencial names /bands are the same of respective genres.(miles/Armstrong /Elvis /purple/sabbath/zeppelin/Sinatra , etc)
Edited by jamman (09/13/13 04:49 PM)
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#371967 - 09/14/13 12:35 AM
Re: Forget about Michael Buble !
[Re: john smies]
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Senior Member
Registered: 10/23/06
Posts: 1661
Loc: USA
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For some reason , apparently due to the lack of musical taste of Americans he only had three major hits in the USA. But he is a legend both in Europe as well as in the far east, Japan, Australia , South Africa, you name it............. Hi John.....not sure if anyone mentioned he also won the Eurovision Song Contest singing the song: :Congratulations." Which gives me a platform for my opinion on "the lack of musical taste of Americans" I lived in your neck of the woods for many years (Great Britain) and, personally speaking, I just loved the wholesomeness (and the happiness) of British pop songs. Every so often I would check out the charts in America and found very few of the Top 10's in England listed on the American charts. My opinion has always been just what you said..."no musical taste" over here. American songs are great works of art compared to the simplicity of European music, and, don't get me wrong, I like songs written here the "American way".....always have, always will. But the "plain Jane" European songs with the simple melody lines that you can hear and sing along to are what hits you in the gut and makes you keep coming back for more. I always viewed Cliff Richard as a "plain Jane" vanilla-flavored, no frills vocalist. That was the greatest compliment I could give him. He, and many other British vocalists, just made you feel, shall I say, wholesome.....and happy inside. Americans will never understand that if they haven't lived there and experienced it first hand. I mean....look at the British pubs where they have sing-a-long every night and attended by every age group. That's the first thing I missed when I came back here.....the levity and fun and good times enjoyed by everyone in those places. That doesn't happen here. Folks here really don't know how to enjoy themselves with music. Anyway, I'm going way off course and really not saying clearly what I wanted to say "clearly!" Just trying to say Cliff Richard would never hit it off in America.....his music is too "happy!" And......thanks for mentioning him. His name brought back so many great memories of the great British songs I'll never get to play again! Mark
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#371970 - 09/14/13 01:20 AM
Re: Forget about Michael Buble !
[Re: Mark79100]
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Senior Member
Registered: 05/05/00
Posts: 1384
Loc: koudekerke, Holland.
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Thank you Mark, you have enlightened my point of view.
A few remarks if I may:
1
Though I was an English teacher for 15 years in the seventies I was and still am DUTCH to the core. ( although at times I wish I was not....)
2
I only started this thread because I wondered what the hell Michael Buble ( or any other singer) and whether we like him or not , had to do with the arranger keyboard forum. Mind, I have nothing against him, as a matter of fact I have made myself a nice compilation CD of the stuff that I like. ( as I have done with many other artists. This JS collection now holds well over 60 CDs and is an ideal way of listening to your favourite artist and music
3
I am not going to follow up any further this debate, merely with Diki. It is not a point of being right or wrong but a matter of taste basically. And, admittedly some facts......
4
When I was alluding to the Americans lacking in musical taste that was most obviously written in gest......( though....haha)
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One final point dear Diki has apparently overlooked when he wrote " Wings alone probably outsold and out-influenced anything Cliffy ever did post-Shadows " : again for the record: CR sold more records worldwide than ANY other artist dead or alive.
Anyway time to get back to playing the arranger keyboards and hopefully not too much speculation about the new Yamaha until it is there. And as to Diki, we are still eagerly and almost impatiently awaiting some of his efforts on the arranger keyboard to share with all and sundry.
Enjoy your weekend,
regards,
John
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It sure made me laugh.
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