I suspect that one trick will work on this keyboard - I mean, when you play the same note in two octaves simultaneously (besides other notes of the chord) in the accompaniment area. This was the doubled note will be the bass note.

I can speculate about what Yamaha thinks: they make it for the customer, who came to the store and thinking which keyboard to chose. Let's say that the customer is a woman, who used to take piano lessons in her school years and now she thinks she'd like to have an instrument at home. She knows that there's so-called 'auto-accompaniment' tool, so she's excited about it. But she looks at PSR-S950 and it scares her to death - how few keys there're and how many buttons! So she sees DGX and she fells in love with it. You know, after it gets to her home, she will lay her fingers on it once or twice, and perhaps a few more times when her friends come by. Okay, maybe she'll play it once or twice a month. But she won't have time to think about the bass note, she'll probably won't be using accompaniment at all. So - this is the thing for those, who want to have an accompaniment on paper. Don't forget - there's only two variations of the style (no 'a','b','c','d' -buttons) and both of them are placed on one button.

You are probably right, but it still limits the instrument to those who may want to learn to play more complex chords. A great many pop songs use on bass chords.

This missing feature (on bass) is what keeps me from recommending the DGX instruments to the more advanced amateur. One thing for sure, I always made it clear to a potential buyer what the function of On Bass did for accompaniment playing. To some it didn't matter, but I wouldn't want a buyer to expect it and not have it, especially on an instrument in this price range.

Personally, I wouldn't buy an instrument without it. I'm very surprised (and more than a little disappointed) it isn't a standard feature being that the DGX doesn't compete with the PSR series, and the next closest would be the much higher priced CVP-series Clavinova.

The way I look at it is that the DGX is so good in so many areas, why cripple it with an accompaniment engine from the low end PSR instruments?

Ian

No doubt they will sell thousands anyway...

Ian, the way I look at it is if they put the T4 guts into the DGX-650 they would be competing with the Clavinova series, which would really be dumb. I think that most of the folks that would buy this board want all the features of a great sounding piano more than they want the intricacies of an arranger keyboard.

Gary

They could put the S750 guts in it, Gary...or even S910...it wouldn't have to be anything as elaborate as a Tyros4.

I think you are right in that many folks might not want the intricacies of an arranger keyboard, but "On Bass" is almost a must have for anyone using auto-accompaniment to any degree other than very simple chords. It would be fine for beginners or amateurs, but the more advanced player would like to have that option, or a player who wants to progress into more interesting chords.

Songs like A Whiter Shade of Pale and mostly anything by Elton John, or Billy Joel (to name only a few) have "On Bass" chords in them, and sound inaccurate when only root note chords are played.

The competition, Casio, has similarly priced and featured pianos that do have "On Bass". It's been available on PSR since 1992!

Maybe someday they'll add it, and I suppose Yamaha has their reasons for not having it...until then, I always make sure a buyer is at least aware of it's absence.

Ian

Yamaha sure do have their reasons... profit.

As long as they can force buyers to buy the massively overpriced Clavinovas, simply to get features that they would get on low end PSR's, Yamaha have achieved EXACTLY what they set out to do.

And while at least half of the serious arranger playing demographic feels that even 76 notes is too big (read 'heavy', despite my BK-9 being pounds less than an S950), odds are we will never see capable 88 note arrangers without an obscene 'furniture tax' penalty doubling their price.

The sad thing is, there are VERY good, quite lightweight proper piano feeling 88 note digital pianos out there... The P105 is 25 lbs... about the same as an S950.

But add a few arranger features to one of these, and suddenly you have the 50 lbs. DGX-650. Talk about a fatted calf! Nobody is going to persuade me that Yamaha stuck another 25 lbs. of circuitry inside!

If Yamaha actually WANTED to make a popular 88 note arranger, they would put the S750 circuitry in a P-105 case, add a color touch screen (so the panel isn't overloaded with buttons) and sell it for about $1800.

But then, they'd never sell another $10,000 CVP-609, would they? LOL

And the thing that really disgusts me is the implication that, if you have the skill to play an 88 note piano keyboard, you apparently don't have the skill to play a 'proper' arranger!

The truth of the matter is, generally, pianists have MUCH better playing abilities than arranger players do (I've listened to enough one finger melody, no improv, no skill arranger demos here to know this!), and probably could use a much better arranger if offered one..!

Yep, profit is probably the main reason.

I played a CVP-609 several weeks ago...beautiful...excellent speaker system, and very attractive cabinet. Absolutely lovely action, if you are fond of 88 weighted graded hammer.

The owner was very pleased with it, indeed, and well he should be, considering it's price. Similar styles and features as the Tyros4 but without the latter's 250 Gig HD.

Another thing that cripples the DGX is that the accompaniment is still only two variations...basically the style engine out of the lower end PSR.

And yes, a P-105 with the guts of an S750 would be a nice combination.

Ian

You can MIDI a P-105 into an S950 (or even a T4!) and have it mirror what is up on the 61 action, can't you...

That would give you basically a CVP-609, for about $7000 less ($5000 less for the T4 combo), wouldn't it? LOL

It is obscene, the markup on the upper end CVP's.

Of course it's obscene, Diki...but, it's just business as usual...ha ha!

Plus, not much, if any, competition in that rarefied market...the CVP series has always sold very, very well.

A P-105 midi'd to an S950 or Tyros4 isn't going to look as good in the music room, unless you can manage to cobble together a decent cabinet, or have one made for you...some people just have to have the look, and Yamaha just happens to give them what they want...at a big fat price (and big fat profit for Yamaha) of course.

Style still means a lot to some people or we wouldn't see Rolls Royce and Big Mercs when a cheaper, simpler, more plain automobile would suffice.

I'm not certain, but I believe Roland still make the equally over-priced KR-series....the grand piano version (discontinued, I suspect) was a real looker, but wasn't as well made (sturdy) as the price warranted, as Roland don't actually make real pianos. It was a good effort nonetheless. I thought the action was very authentic.

Overpriced? You bet!

I'm glad that, at least in my case, function trumps style every time, especially when it comes to musical instruments.

I hope Yamaha decides to upgrade the next DGX to at least S750 type specs, but I don't think I'll count on it too much.

Ian