What appalls me is the fairly constant putting down of other musicians as never being good enough...

To be quite frank, most of the musicians I've played with in live bands easily outshine most on here. Most of them can improvise well (can't remember the last arranger piece posted here that was much more than a rote recitation of the melody, certainly can't remember the last decent solo), most of them were at least as professional as anyone else here, and yet we have this semi-constant theme about how proud we all are, replacing them with a machine that doesn't sound one iota as good as them. Greed wins out over art, every time.

There isn't one of us here that, to be frank, probably sounds better as a solo than they did in a full band, but everyone sure THINKS they do. Bad news, guys... unless you were in a terrible band, you don't sound anywhere NEAR as good.

That people will still get up and dance to you, and enjoy the show is no proof of superiority. People will clap for a trained monkey, too! The sad fact is, the only reason we are getting gigs as solo's with arrangers is we are willing to undercut our fellow musicians, fire them, and make up some kind of BS that things were never better. And greedy club owners and restaurateurs are just fine with that...

Personally, I am seeing more and more bands that are using MP3's to do all the keyboard parts. And, you know what? You can hardly blame them... Having been told in no uncertain terms how some of us feel they are dead weight, unreliable, poor personal hygiene, whatever BS excuse you can come up with to assuage whatever degree of guilt you feel about firing them to make more money for the club owner (no way is he paying little ol' you what he paid the full band) and a bit extra for you, they have every right to turn the tables on us.

Bottom line... we opened the door. Keyboard players were the first with the technology to replace all the other musicians. Trouble is, of course, now they have the technology to replace US..! We showed no solidarity when we got the power, who can blame them now?

At the end of the day, what is music? Is it a few people playing together, or is it one person and a laptop? Or an arranger? Because, if it is the latter, better watch out. There is precious little difference between a singer with an arranger, and a singer with a laptop and a bunch of karaoke MP3's. And, who knows..? The singer with the laptop might undercut YOU.

We've painted ourselves into a corner, and I'm not sure we realized the consequences when we started this trip. The sad fact is, we are no more special, talented, or indispensable than any other 'musician'. We can ALL be replaced.

So, next time you feel like telling us about how bad the musicians you played with were, and how good you feel about getting rid of them and no-one in the audience cares one way or the other, I only hope you find yourself in THEIR shoes one day. I wonder what you will say about who replaces YOU!



Please, let's not pretend that this wasn't posted. I can go back and find a dozen more if you need them.

Diki, Abe was fired because he didn't show up for the job - nothing more, nothing less. Some folks, however, don't seem to understand that no matter how good you are as a musician, you're totally worthless if you're not there. No different than any other job - you don't show up for work, or constantly come late - YOU'RE FIRED! Plain and simple. Like I posted below that post you referred to, Abe and I are still good friends. We go fishing together, drink a few beers together, etc... We just no longer work together. He had a totally different work ethic and business approach than I have. Abe was one hell of a drummer, when he was there. When he wasn't, well, you probably never experienced that.

Cheers,

Gary

Sadly (for the music industry in general) Diki nailed it!


R.

Gary, you didn't go out and find a drummer that COULD do the gig... you just replaced him with a beatbox that the ONLY thing it did better was play at the volume you needed.

And you haven't needed a drummer ever since?

Not a particularly high bar for the groove...

I've said it many times ... the number one priority for most acts SHOULD be:

Voice (or instrumental melody)
Bass
Drums
Everything else.

In THAT order. The drums are no where near as important to the pocket or the groove as the bass is, and the interaction of the bass and lead.
Sure, a tight groove between a bass player and a drummer is a wonderful thing, but it's the bass that makes people dance, not the drums. The bass give the chords their identity and enhance the melody, which is always the most important element when pleasing most crowds.
Simple, solid drum beats go a LONG way to enhance any style ... give me Ringo on every job. (assuming he only wants to get paid ONCE!)
LOL

Diki, if you only want to play with live drummers ... who's stopping you?

Nope - never needed another live drummer, Diki. Some folks need em - some folks don't!

Dave, couldn't agree more.

Cheers,

Gary

Diki, what the [potty mouth] are you on here for? This is an arranger forum. It's clear to me that you belong on a band forum where you can chew the fat with all of the players in the band. The whole purpose of being an arranger player is to be a solo act. No more and no less. It is what it is. You can debate all day the pros and cons of working with or without players, but again I say, this is an arranger forum. If you don't like that, maybe it's time to move on.

IMHO, Joe

Joe... I have been thinking the same thing. Although, I've been blown away by some of the insights Diki has posted that DO relate to arrangers. But, as of late, he appears to be better suited on another forum. He's no dummy, but he fails to see how he can irritate us lowly arranger players.
Eddie

Because of hand/arm injuries, I'm playing more arranger gigs than I usually do, and am glad to get to do them.

But, I do agree that the optimum is playing with live players.

I believe that Diki is in the same boat, and simply expressing his wish to be the best player he can be. For him, as well as me, that would be playing with other players. That unspoken communication with like minded and skilled players is where the magic is!

One slight difference between Diki's preference and mine is,like Dave, I want the best player in a group to be the person on bass.

A dynamite pocket takes both bass and drums, with a voice or lead instruments weaving that great little path in between.

As far as contributions, Diki is a wealth of information...so passionate about what he does that, sometimes his mouth works faster than his brain.

But, if I don't watch, I tend to do the same thing. Diki does what I believe a modern musician should do...utilize technology, but don't use it as a crutch. And I can relate to being flexible, in doing studio work, singles, arranger work and group work.

I tend to cut him a lot of slack, and would love to share a bandstand with him one day.

Russ