I tend to cut someone the same amount of slack I see them give to others...only exception would be if I know they are going through a particularly hard time.

Ian

Thanks Russ...

Joe... Have you forgotten I play ONLY an arranger? That I use it for live playing as well as solo gigs might give me a perspective that perhaps some of you that have decided to give up on playing with others quite a while ago may have lost.

The thing that gets up my nose here, probably the most, is listening to players that probably couldn't cut it in a real live band put down the very musicians that inspire their machines in the first place. No arranger EVER came up with a decent groove by itself. In fact, most of the best arranger styles have drum tracks actually played by drummers! But while these tiny snippets of drumming, guitar playing, etc. suffice as a passable backing, they fall so short of the real thing it astounds me how anyone can make the comparison.

I have no problem using an arranger... I have plenty of TOTL WS's, but when I go out the door, no matter what the gig, I take an arranger. Live band, duo, solo, session work, it's all the same to me. If that doesn't count as a reason for being here, I don't know what you are looking for... Other than, perhaps, you'd prefer I fall into line and drink the Kool-Aid and pretend the arranger is better than a live band. Well, sorry. Can't bring myself to do it!

To push ourselves, to get the most out of these technological wonders, the first thing you need to do is accept their limitations. Then you push hard at the manufacturers to address them. This is why, primarily, I spend time here. Now, while I am sure that my efforts were only a small part of it, I am sure that at least SOME of what I have done over the last few years to keep the Chord Sequencer at the forefront of consciousness, has impacted the fact that TWO major manufacturers have introduced it (or re-introduced it!) recently. I consider this feature one of the essential things you need to be able to play well on an arranger (or you simply resign your LH to rote chord repetition), and I'm ecstatic that it has returned to the fold. Even expanded a bit...

So, Joe, what's YOUR reason for being here?

I have a friend who plays singles and band gigs (up to7 pcs)using more than one instrument, with his T2. He is an extremely talented virtuoso and gets everything out of his arranger. It sounds terrific. But he is equally at home playing with the band. He rarely uses the bass loops in the arranger playing manual bass on his left. As to what sounds better, sometimes it is close depending on the depth of the musician has gone to programming and using the arranger. Live musicians can add more improvisation and authentic sounds, but I cannot simply write off a player who is a omb ,especially if he/she has delved in to the sounds, styles, etc., toward their full capabilities.

I have done the same, playing singles and with my 5 piece band (before my torn rt wrist tendon) as the venue demands, and the price covers. The business of playing demands this flexibility, particularly in tough economic times, when owners and clubs went from paying full bands to duos and singles.

Some people do this for the money, and some people don't need the money. I think it is a virtue to be able to do both kinds (single/band) of performances. And it has become necessity if you count on the income.

What I don't believe in is painting everybody, or large sections of everybody, with a broad brush. To say most of the people here don't have significant talent to me means a) You've traveled the country, wait-the world, and heard everyone that is an sz member to evaluate them as such, and b) that you hold your abilities/talent above all of these people. Its just plain insulting and unsupported given the sample you extract your data from..and worse when you back peddle when confronted. Slinging arrows from the safety of an anonymous address via computer certainly doesn't impress me. And don't say that was not your intent- there are volumes of comments here that show just the opposite. And, I never believe that someone can make themselves superior by trying to make all of those around him/her appear inferior. It's just bullying, passively aggressive, but that's what it is. So don't break your arm patting yourself on the back. From what I read, there appear many here that would be willing to do that for you...

Dike my reason for being here is because I play an arranger. I am a very accomplished pianist and vocalist and I've played in many bands over the years including back up bands for both the Flamingo's and the Platters. And BTY, the Terry Johnson Flamingos are in the rock and roll hall of fame. These days I work as a OMB and I'm very proud of the level of artistry that I bring to that format. The arranger KB gives me the latitude to combine the talent that I have with the vast palete of choices that it has and for me it has become an incredible marriage. At this point in my life I wouldn't go back to playing the old way. There's way too much satisfaction and money here. I think that's the kind of thing this forum supports and that's why I'm here.

Joe

I guess it's all personal. Yes, there's money in singles. Is there satisfaction? Yes, of course there is. But is there MORE satisfaction playing in a band..?

For some of us, that's a no, for others, a yes. I'm afraid, count me in in the yeses. The predictability of the arranger, the fact that, when you call up a certain style, that bloody drummer is going to play it EXACTLY the way he did yesterday (and so is everybody else), that's the difference.

Sure, you can PERFORM something perfectly... But you can't CREATE something. At least, not at the interactive level. That arranger guitarist is never going to throw a lick at you that makes you think, or the drummer is never going to pull up and surprise you, lead you down a path you have not thought of. We get so absorbed in these little wonders, we often forget how and why we started playing. Not to perform rote versions of hits, but to CREATE and delight (ourselves probably more than anyone else!).

I'm sorry, but I've been here quite a while (at least since 2005). I've made a point of listening to almost everything ever posted here. It's got nothing to do with MY abilities, or lack thereof, but I'm sorry. The number of really GOOD demos are slim. And even fewer of them were of music that could in any way be describes as 'hip' or 'grooving'. Am I expecting too much? I can go out most nights of the week and hear a band do that. But in years of listening here? Not so much. If I'm insulting the forum as a whole (and I don't believe I am), post something. Let's hear it. If anyone's doing something that comes close to a GOOD live band, for Pete's sake, I want to hear it! I want to be inspired by it. I want to figure out how you did it!

I still think I've got plenty to learn... That ain't trying to look superior, chum.

What I will say Diki is at least you have the testicles to tell folks on SZ their level of musical expertise is pretty low, not many can do that or will come out and say that, you certainly are my Mr S.Z. Controversy and that's how we will all remember you when you're gone. Obviously to judge others as critically as you do, you need to be much better, a bit like Simon Cowell, I take it you are head and shoulders above, just never heard you. It is interesting to read your posts when you have your neck wound right out, but frankly I never get past the first 2 lines, much too wordy and prolix for me. Never mind Diki we are not going to change and neither are you, keep the spleen venting coming, certainly keeps folks on the edge or their seats when really if they take your advice they would be better practising and not come here on SZ, until such times as they have something to be really proud about. What's interesting people keep coming back for more of you, I think they just wait for the trip ups, its a love hate thing with them. Drummers, who needs a drummer buy an Audya and really be abused..

No , Diki you have not simply insulted the forum as a whole. I've seen many times where you have singled out individuals as well. I suppose we could take a poll....
I think if your discussion didn't stray from purely the limitations of the equipment to those who use it it would seem less abrasive. Being a forum member since 2005 is not in and of itself an impressive credential, at least not to me. Seniority in the workplace, private club membership, or talk forum doesn't constitute superior ability or position, command respect, insert knowledge, require submission, or acceptance of anyone- it usually just means you're old.

Again, you have taken a limited sampling and applied to a much larger group producing a flawed conclusion.

I sincerely hope you do continue to learn. You might want to start by reading up on basic human respect, then be more careful about picking your targets.. I don't believe The purpose of this forum is to allow semi-anonymous bullying- I don't care how long you've been a member. Nobody signed up for nor deserves that when they haven't asked for it.

Chum? I don't think so.

Long time coming, but that's as good as its going to get, alas it won't make one jot of difference

Hi Diki,

Please send some of your stuff for Ron to host on CCS like many others over here did. I'm not for, neither against you, but I would love to hear your music also. I enjoy listening to the way others do it...

All the best my friend,

Henni

Maybe, no probably not Tony. But it is clear where I stand, and more importantly what I stand for. Enough.............