My arranger is a jerk! But I still play with him...

He never gets the next song right without me telling him, he never even shows up for a gig unless I take him there, and bring him back home. I have to put him up at my expense, and he never sings a song, he won't help set up the PA, he can't even play the chords for a song without me showing him how at least once!

He never makes eye contact with the audience, never schmoozes the management, has never learned a tune and surprised me on the gig with it. He's never gone out and got a booking for me, never sends the agent a Christmas card, and never gives me notice he is going to quit suddenly on me in the middle of a gig!

If he didn't play for free, I'd fire his ass in a flash!

One size never fits all, I suppose. I like using my arranger for it's many benefits, and I like jamming with the guys for a different sort of fun.

For me they provide different ways of enjoying and producing my music, whether for fun or profit.

Unfortunately there are those with huge talent (and equally huge egos) that end up being jerks and divas, and I've been lucky to work with some fine talent that never allowed their success and/or talent to go to their heads (I suppose there must have had to be room for it).

My arranger never played for free...I just paid it's wages for being my gig partner up front when I bought it.

To me, it was worth every bit.

Ian

I did clinics with Buddy Rich and Louis Bellson in the late 1960's at various Universities. It didn't last very long - Rich was a real A-hole of the first magnitude which often completely overshadowed his ability to connect with the young students - but he sure could play. Technique beyond belief! Bellson, on the other hand, was a complete gentleman and a pleasure to work with. I ran into Bellson later on when I was on tour with the the all-black cast of Hello Dolly featuring Pearl Bailey and Cab Calloway. He would drop in to see Pearl. (That's another story for another time.)

I had a Rogers drum set with both of their signatures on the bass drum and after I quit playing I sold the set to a collector for $4,000.00.

Deane

Well, what do you expect? You're pounding on him six nights a week!

I love arrangers. I respect arrangers, and I respect arranger players. If I didn't, I wouldn't be posting here, and wouldn't care about others opinions.
DonM

I love arrangers. I respect arrangers. I respect SOME arranger players.

I also love bands. I respect other musicians, even if they can't play a keyboard! I respect that it takes immense talent to play a guitar sound, or a sax sound on a keyboard, and make them actually sound like a guitar or a sax, where they have no problem at all! I respect that they often bring something to the table I can't, by myself.

There are some here that don't feel that way. A little humility would go a long way, but I guess, if you can't tell that the arranger is a very poor substitute for talented musicians, there's little point in going much further. I find it telling that there are FAR more videos put up here of real acts than arranger playing. Perhaps, at a subconscious level, we all realize that, no matter how fancy and technological these things get, they are still a very pale shadow of a GOOD band.

And trust me, there are plenty of talentless people with huge egos that end up being jerks and divas... it isn't simply restricted to the great players! But, if I gots to work with a jerk, I'd rather he played well! I guess, if there's one difference here, it might be that one. I'd still rather play with a talented jerk than a soulless machine. Now, of course, I don't always get that option, and thank God the arranger is there to bail me out!

But given a choice...

I saw him in Dublin about 1974, he was great, but did come

across as a "male prima donna" (if there's such an animal)

I remember the bass player( electric) was like a cowed animal,

terrified,almost afraid to play.

In this video I liked his snare sound and by the way, also his

playing.

Frank

P. S. nice post Donny

I don't know how this got to be machine vrs. man, or why such negativity has to be brought in to this thread and others. It has nothing to do with any of us being able to play at Rich's level. None of us could.
We're just telling stories of his obnoxious behavior. BTW -the show where he fired the sax player for missing the bus-- Rich asked during the show that the spotlight on him be turned off. Being that it was a second rate Holiday Inn gig there was probably no one manning the lights so it stayed on. He did one more song, went into his solo and riffed into a buzz roll. Took it down to a whisper and then threw the sticks down and said "Thats it" and walked off. He was known for getting top college grads in his band cheaply with the promise of them being able to pad their resume's and then being very abusive to them.
I would hope if I were ever lucky enough to be in the position to run a great band like that I would be more respectful of the young people I was influencing.

" I respect SOME arranger players."

Oh, I don't think you meant it that way. I think you mean you respect some people's abilities or experience more than others.

I believe that every person on this forum brings something to the table and should be respected regardless of their playing skills.

If it weren't for individual instrumentalists, which most of us have been at one time, we wouldn't have anything to try to emulate! We all enjoy great music regardless of how it is generated, and there is certainly more of it made by bands than arranger players. There is a lot of BAD music made by some bands too. Doesn't mean we need to put anybody down for doing the best they can.

DonM