BK-9's action is basically pretty much the same as T4, PA3X, minus the aftertouch. Weight feels about the same, nice and crisp...

I think that's the word that best describes what the PSR's are missing - they really aren't hardly any lighter than T4, PA3 etc., simply more spongy, less 'crisp', if you will.

And, in fairness, the G70's action isn't very much heavier at all. My K2500's action is FAR heavier than the G70's. What made the G70's so good was, once again, how precise and 'crisp' it felt, but even more so, its shape... darn near full sized piano length, but without the piano's fake ivory overhang, black notes almost identical to a piano's, but just SLIGHTLY more rounded, and a very slight convex curve to the surface of the whites, with the corners slightly rounded off and the ends missing that overhang completely.

The end result of all this is something that, if you are used to playing a piano, didn't throw you any curves getting used to something significantly shorter in length for both black and whites, but had none of the piano's tendency to 'grab' your hand when you did palm smears and other organ techniques, which were developed on waterfall keys that have no edges to bite you.

Some day, maybe we need to do something a bit precise in the way of testing what force is needed to play all of these different actions. I imagine a weight placed on top of a long rod, dropped from a specific height a specific distance, and measure how much weight is needed to generate a full 127 velocity message would give us good data.

Were this to be done, I think there would be quite some considerable surprise at how close most of them are. I still believe the springing and overall construction is more of what contributes to the 'feel' of an action (along with its shape) than the actual force required to achieve a 127 velocity message...

... there's no need for any of it ...

I'm glad you are happy with your BK-9 keyboard, Diki...I understand how you feel...I'm very content with my Tyros4.

I was never unhappy with the PSR action...one adjusts and gets comfortable to different feels over time, and if I had been unable to afford my Tyros4, an S910 would have been my next choice, and I know I'd still be sittin' here every day, happy as a shig in pit, playing music, recording, and making styles, instead of fussing over what action is supposedly better than another.

I appreciate having such a great, and healthy way to escape for awhile from all the less joyful parts of life.

I do know that a BK-9 would not suit me, as I'm very fond of Yamaha's sound, and the BK-9 just doesn't have the same smoothness and balance; it works for you, and that's the important thing.

But, that's the beauty of these wonderful choices we have...we can all pretty well find something to suit us, and, most importantly, fit within our budget.

But that's enough out of me about Roland and Korg and Ketron...this thread was clearly about information on the Tyros5, and I think, since neither you nor I are going to buy one, maybe we should let the thread stick to, and focus on, what the really BIG news is....Tyros5.

We can bet there will be plenty of topics on Tyros5 and it's comparison and relation to other TOTL arrangers when it's actually available or at the very least, shown in some YouTube or factory demos.

Only about a week or so to wait.

Ian

I wouldn't count me out on the T5 completely, Ian...

They have at least addressed my issue with not enough notes..! There's a CHANCE that some of the new kits may very well address some of my concerns there, too (the new kits on the T4 and S950 were a good start to addressing that end of things), and who knows? Maybe Yamaha will wake up and realize, if enough of its users start asking for practical updates instead of 'defending' to the death every boneheaded decision they make (you don't catch ME trying to excuse any of Roland's missteps!), that a simple loop enable parameter on the multipad audio would radically change what you can do with it...

There's always hope. I like the Tyros enormously for many of the things it does well. I only wish that SOME here could recognize that my criticisms of it come with a goal of exposing the weaknesses, so that Yamaha could improve them.

For instance, punchier drums (like you already have in the newest MIDI kits) don't MEAN less balanced styles. That is entirely the responsibility of the style creator, and this is one area where Yamaha outshine Roland by a considerable margin. You CAN get Roland's nice and balanced (mine is!) but it doesn't always come OOTB that way... And doing it yourself takes considerable skill, something maybe lacking in some players, or too much work.

In fairness, I think if the T5 came with a PSR action, anyone not heavily invested in trying to present Yamaha in the best possible light at ALL times (not confident enough already with their purchasing decision to acknowledge its weaknesses, perhaps? LOL), would be entitled to bitch up a storm at something like that on a $5000 keyboard (you don't catch Yamaha inflicting those on its WS players!). And, I'm sorry, but if you compare the PSR action to ANY other keyboard, arranger or WS in the same price bracket, it still comes up woefully short. I have to tell you, if Roland did that to me, you wouldn't see me sucking it up and trying to flame those pointing the obvious out... I would be leading the pack demanding parity with other keyboards from the same manufacturer at the same price!

Now, don't get me wrong... if the FEATURES of a Roland arranger made it a must buy for me, even with the lousy action, yes, I'd probably buy it. The BIG difference would be, I wouldn't be sitting there, knowing how bad it sucks (comparatively), trying to tell people when THEY point that out that they know NOTHING about arrangers, it's fine, go back to your Holiday Inn! I'd agree with them, try to work with them to get Roland to improve it, and move on...

There's only ONE reason I make any arranger critiques... To try and help be a force for improvement. And I am as willing to do it to my OWN arranger as I am doing it to anything else. That's how you improve the breed. Don't excuse faults, expose them, and let the breeders work harder to fix it on the NEXT generation.

IMO, PSR owners have sucked it up and made feeble excuses for too long. Yamaha could EASILY afford to put a quality action in a $2000 arranger. They do for WS's costing MUCH less. But it won't get better while every fault is pushed under the rug, and those trying to drag it out into the light of day are ridiculed and attacked.

You know, the NEXT generation of Yamaha's might have a Chord Sequencer. Both Roland and Korg now have one, and more and more people are beginning to realize how useful it can be. And if you get one, guess who you'll have to thank for it..? Not Yamaha users, that's for sure..! If it ain't on a Yamaha NOW, it patently can't be of any use, right?

Let's just get down from our high horses, and try to improve these things. There is still MUCH work to be done, to ALL of them.

Sorry, Ian. Hate to burst the bubble, but there's much about the BK-9 that could be improved. Now, that don't mean I'm UNhappy with it, but I'm not ecstatic. Obviously, the loss of the touch screen is a disappointment. The loss of aftertouch is a lesser annoyance. Dropping one of the UPR and LWR Parts is a shame. Not having OTS for SMF use is a bit of a loss.

OTOH, it came to me a good $1500 less than the G70 came to me first.

It has my Chord Sequencer back

It has synced loop capabilities and WAV/MP3 playback, FAR better Hammond (the equal of a Nord, IMO), SA2 type sounds (the guitars are to die for), hugely improved drums (which were already industry leaders in the first place!), vastly improved overall sound selection, and of course, HALF THE WEIGHT!

Actually, LESS than half the weight!

But at no time whatsoever will you catch me trying to deny what faults it DOES have. And I think that's where you'll find the difference between me and some others here who cannot abide the least word of criticism about what THEY use.

That's great, buddy.

You see, I'm not going to get caught up in all the criticism anymore...at least until I see and hear what this topic was original about...the Tyros5.

I also have no intention of inventing faults with the instrument I'm very happy with using, just so you might feel better about the way you slag your own.

I'm just going to sign in, read all the posts, have a chuckle, post a reply if I feel like it, and then go back to playing, recording, and style making.

I'm afraid one doesn't have to come down off a high horse, if they are wise enough not to put themselves up there in the first place. I've seen so many mounts and dismounts throughout this thread it's starting to look like a John Wayne western movie.

I'm glad I know my limitations...I'll leave the horsey stuff and it's less than fragrant by-products to the ones who obviously feel they are more qualified.

Just a small teensy weensy ittsy bittsy suggestion, but have you thought about starting a separate thread on the BK-9, because I think most people clicking on this topic, expect it to be about Tyros5 information...not someone trying to justify their purchase of a keyboard they obviously aren't totally happy with.

Man, am I ever glad my search is over. Contentedness can be elusive, but I have found it.

Good luck with yours.

Ian

My point in another thread was that I'd rather have the PSR keys than Tyros keys. Has to do with speed, arthritis in the fingers, and years of playing organ, plus zero years of playing piano.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder!
DonM

Don, aren't the keys on your PA3X a little firmer than PSR or the lower priced PA-series like the 500 or 600?

I only played a PA3x for less than half an hour with a lot of interruptions, but I found the action to be comparable to the Tyros2/3/4.

Thinking back, one of the nicest feeling actions I played was on my old Polymoog, one of the first synths with touch sensitivity.

Unfortunately, it wasn't a paragon of reliability.

For a player coming from an organ background, PSR keys would be very comfortable, yet still give great control over expression.

When I go from playing my Tyros4, to a PSR-S910/S950 it takes several minutes to adjust, the throw in the PSR keys being a tad shallower, as well as being less resistant.

It's no worse than coming from an 88 note weighted action to a Tyros4's semi-weighted keyboard.

Ian

I see the T5 will not be black as anticipated. I am curious; is there any way to know if all of the limited edition anniversary t4's all been gobbled up or are there any to be had, and does the T5 release diminish the value of this edition??

The 9000PRO is 17" wide ... the T5 is even bigger!