I don't think there is an issue if jealousy at all. But I've encountered many examples over the past week or two that when someone suggests a feature request someone else comes back and says "if you don't like it, don't buy it!"

This is not about liking it OR buying it. It's about creating a better performance experience.

That said, I apologize about the generalization above - I didnt mean it that way.

I seriously doubt few if any are jealous of the Tyros 5. Considering my arranger has these features the Tyros 5 lacks, Tyros 5 owners are the ones who would be jealous.

My arranger doesn't force me to choose between 61 or 76 keys, I have both. Two great feeling semi weighted keybeds with aftertouch.

My arrangers built in audio system rivals those by any other manufacturer. No need for me to strap on cheap speakers like those the Tyros 5 uses.

I'm not stuck with some mediocre over compressed drum kits either. I can sample new sounds, load samples from other manufacturers, and mix, edit, and map sounds wherever I want.

I can import audio files, MP3, MP4, AIFF, Wave, even Video and use them all as I see fit.

My arranger has audio drum styles and has had them for 10+ years.

If any factory sound doesn't suit my need, I can edit it, process it, filter it, and manipulate it to suit my needs.

If I want to go beyond what any other arranger can do, I can load in multiple VST's and play them back as if they are native to my arranger. Try as it might, the Tyros 5 isn't in the same league as a high end VST.

My arranger has a large touch screen in addition to numerous real time knobs and sliders that are fully programmable.

My arranger has a 25 note pedal board that also has toe pistons and a swell pedal. All programmable I might add.

I've got the ability to split, stack, or setup numerous sounds all at once on any of the keyboards my arranger has be it upper, lower, or the pedal board.

My polyphony isn't limited by what the manufacturer forces me to have, it varies based upon my processor speed. When using VST's in conjunction with my factory sounds, my polyphony is well into the hundreds.

The voice allocation scheme used by my arranger doesn't cut notes off like Yamaha products do. In fact, unless I stack some insane number of sounds together, for example 4 stacked on top, 4 stacked on bottom, three on the pedal board, then play some monsterous chords at once, you wont ever hear a hiccup or drop out at all.

My arranger does multitrack audio recording, multitrack sequencing, synthesis, sampling, direct disk playback, wavetable, FM, analog modeling, multi FX, and more.

My arranger doesn't use some cheap tiny sliders to mimic a drawbar, I actually have real drawbars for both upper and lower keyboards.

My arranger has multiple audio inputs and outputs in addition to two dedicated microphone inputs.

These features just scratch the surface of what my arranger can do. Unlike many who toss each of their older arrangers to the wayside to buy the "new" model, my arranger has stayed up to date with software and hardware changes.

Ian after playing his Yamaha Tyros4...

I do like that Yamaha has implemented the Ensemble feature although it's nothing new except to Yamaha. VST's have done this for many years. It adds realism to string and horn sections because it puts them in their appropriate placement and stereo spectrum just like in a real orchestra. I didn't notice any large ensembles used, just quartets which I hope aren't the only available programs. A nice 40 piece or larger orchestra would be fantastic.

Same goes for the audio styles. It would have been a great addition had the feature not been castrated. Why not allow users to record, loop, edit, and playback their own audio styles? Yamaha simply wants to force users to buy styles only from Yamaha. I get that many users will never delve into recording their own audio styles, but for others like Diki, Chony, and myself who learn the ins and outs of our gear, it's a major disappointment.

No Voice Creator is just insane. I'm certain a subsequent software update will allow this feature but not having it right out of the gate was a major oversight.

After listening to most every T5 demo available on high end studio monitors, the differences between the T4 and T5 aren't earth shattering. What I can hear are better AD/DA's on the T5 and improved FX modeling programs. This in and of itself gives the T5 an edge over a T4 albeit slight. I'm certain with some tweaking I could get a T4 to sound nearly identical to a T5. What it really comes down to is are the new features enough to warrant a T4 user upgrading. That's a tough call.

For me a 76 note keyboard is a must so for that feature alone I'd upgrade from a T4 to a T5 if I were so inclined. I find it interesting most of the T5 demos shown are from a T5-76. Offering a 76 note option was very smart on Yamaha's part.

The T5 audio styles to me are a major disappointment because they don't sound very open. Cymbals and hi hats lack clarity and don't breathe. The playing realism is great, I just can't stand the way they were recorded. When I track real drums if I can't hear cymbals ring out and decay naturally, I'm not doing the recording justice. Yamaha clearly limited the bandwidth and compressed the hell out of the audio styles to minimize the file size. A huge mistake IMO. Had they recorded these at 24/96 or 24/48 and not limited their frequency response, the results would be spectacular. As it stands now, other than the realism of them being performed by real players, the sounds themselves are meh! Much better than the stock MIDI styles and mediocre drum sounds because of the playing realism, but still meh.

This is probably very interesting to everyone, but we all know the proof is really in the hearing, and even more importantly, the seeing and hearing.

Please Ensnareyou...please can you provide a YouTube (or otherwise) demo of the instrument you are boasting about, or even better, a demo of you playing your arranger and highlighting the features you are so proud of, to everyone.

Otherwise, until we actually hear and see this allegedly remarkable instrument, all we have is your humble opinion to go by, and I'm afraid all that seems to be doing is convincing yourself.

Lastly, an instrument having all the averred features your arranger has to offer, must be quite popular, especially to pros and/or advanced players...what kind of price are we looking at?

Ian the Curious

Hi Ensnareyou

Your arranger is part of the organ range, (With yours being classed as the Pro model due to the additional lower manual and pedals) and when it was in production (The single manual version) was about twice the price of the Tyros, however due to low cost upgrades (Assuming you bought it when the range was first introduced) then it will have cost you half of what it has cost Tyros owners who upgraded to each new model.

Your instrument is also not an OOTB experience, as it gives you all the basics and then all the features to make it your own, however most arranger (Not Organ) players want easy play features (Press a button and everything is done for you) that they can play along too. (They don’t mind sounding like everybody else with the same instrument)

Compare like with like and use your manufactures arranger model, (Which is significantly cheaper than a Tyros) as a basis, and you will see exactly the same limitations (Its easy play) as a Tyros. (The exception being that like the organ range you don’t need to buy a new keyboard to get all the new upgrades and features)

Bill

Ian,

It's not my job to convince you or anyone else what can or can't be done with my arranger. I merely pointed out factual information based upon what it can and will do. If you and others choose not to seek out other options than the big three, that is your prerogative. I chose to take a chance, buy something sight unseen, and have never regretted that decision.

When I bought my arranger it was a bargain, costing barely more than a T5 sells for street price. In the past 10+ years I've had numerous free software updates that kept making my instrument better and better keeping it cutting edge. Only once did the upgrade cost me money due to hardware updates and that cost was less than $1k. I can't imagine how much a Tyros user would have spent if they've upgraded from the first Tyros to the Tyros 5. Certainly far more than I've spent in over 10 years on my arranger. The sad part is even the Tyros 5 can't do what my 10+ year old instrument can do. That goes to show you what happens when a company like Yamaha cares more about selling products in incremental steps rather than to push the forefront of technology. Yamaha has the technology, financial backing, and expertise to make something so revolutionary it could change the market. The reason they don't is because once they do, then they'd have to top it. Mediocrity has become the standard for the big three with the exception of Korg. Only Korg with the Oasys and Kronos was willing to push limits. Unfortunately they set their limits too low.

Yamaha, Roland, and Korg were all once visionaries... The CS80, GX-1, Jupiter 8, M1, and Triton series to name but a few instruments that changed keyboard history. The DX7 was the start of Yamaha's decent into mediocrity selling to the masses rather than pressing forward in keyboard advancements. Hopefully they'll see fit to push boundaries again in the near future.

I wish companies like Sequential, Moog, Emu Systems, Oberheim, and Arp still existed because they always pushed the envelope no matter what the cost. To move forward requires taking chances and believing in something that others don't necessarily agree with. That logic changed the world and still can.

Bill,

I paid barely more for my arranger than what the original Tyros sold for at the time. As for OOTB... no arranger for me is great OOTB. In fact no keyboard for me is great OOTB. If it were my intention to have limited editing, minimal synthesis, lack of real time controls, and lack of expandability, then I'd just rush out and buy any XYZ keyboard and be done with it. I actually use my instruments to their potential which is why settling for average doesn't work.

You and I both know that our arranger platform running VST's in conjunction with the factory sounds and real time controls is worlds apart from a T5. Unfortunately many people are creatures of habit and become brand loyal even if it's not the best there is to offer. I've never been brand loyal and always chose the tool that offered me the most power to do what I needed with it. I'll admit, I'm not your average arranger guy and neither are you. We actually delve deep into the architecture of what our arranger can do and push the envelope. .

Yamaha's most successful products weren't because they were the best there was to offer, quite the contrary. They sold well because the average user rarely edits a patch to do what they want or need. Offer them a mediocre option that will work and they'll swallow that pill with ease.

Why am I not surprised you wouldn't back up your claims?

Yamaha, Korg, Roland and Ketron have done it. I have posted my work here several times.

Talk is cheap, I suppose.

It appears you had to add a lot of extras...I haven't needed to add anything to my Tyros4 to make it fit my needs (other than re-program some styles, which was accomplished on the instrument), and I'm a professional player, working in the business over 40 years.

Enjoy whatever it is you play.

Ian

PS... If I upgraded every 3-4 years or so, the cost was very little, and I made that back with just a few gigs.