"Honestly so very close" all around, ...........
makes you wonder,.....

Donny, they are very close, but even with my aging ears I could hear some significant differences in overall sound quality. The T5 definitely had more depth in the grand piano sound. Same held true with the electric piano. There seemed to be a distinct difference in clarity with the guitars and string demos as well. There was a definite, big change in the tenor sax sound.

Gary

They are very close ...and you can always EQ sound to your tastes ...Tyros 5 is an amazing instrument for sure......comparisons are always a good thing. Then again what you hear in demos, or your living room, etc, vs what you would hear in a stage mix performance is a very different story.All these arrangers are phenomenal to create music, the player is the reason.

They are too close in the areas important to me, for me to be tempted.

The only reason I would get a Tyros5 is if I needed 76 keys, but, for my way of playing, which is arranger style play, 61 keys are just right.

As far as sounds go, I've got lots of excellent sounds to work with already on my Tyros4...judicious use of the T4's effects and filter/brightness can give me what I want.

Ian

The two tenor saxophones are indeed clearly different, but the first (T4) one seems to be a "breathy sax", the second one a "hard sax", so did they really compare the equivalent voices?
The grand pianos only have minimal differences IMO, I'm sure they both use the same CFIII sample already used in the Motif XS and MOX, it has the typical bright sound. I heard considerable improvements in the church organ and some guitars.

Wow ..what an eye opener in this comparison..

I think I prefer the Tyros4 in this sound comparison..

Clearly..you can tell the samples for the most part are similar, but the Tyros5 is swamped with effects..to a point they are over done..

Initially, when I heard the first demos, the overall sound was better on the Tyros5...thanks in part to mastering and new effects..

This gave the guitars a great sound (amp similators)..


The Tyros4 is clearer..the Tyros5 lost it's clarity..Clarity was not a strong point with Yamaha to start with...

Listening to other demos of the Tyros5, the effects on the "ensemble" drove me crazy with the pulsating volume and attack...virtually useless in any music application ..live..

You folks with Tyros4's better rethink your "upgrade" to the Tyros5.
This comparison can only hurt sales for that company..they must have a lot of Tyros4 to move out.

It's way too close to call . The eq settings were clearly different on the acoustic pianos . The electric pianos were just awash with effects and the drums sounded like different kits not better or worse . The acoustic guitars were the stand out instruments on the T5 to my ears and maybe the saxes. Was not that impressed with the ensemble voices to be honest . I think right now the T4 is a bargain compared to the T5

I would have expected the T5 to have both major grand piano waveforms the Motif XF has, the old CFIII one, which sounds a bit like pop piano all the time, and the newer more "wooden" sounding S6 sample. But obviously Yamaha expects customers to get those samples extra for the flash board.

As a Korgie, I think I can be classed as a neutral (not neutered:)) in a T4/T5 shootout. I have to agree with Fran in general, and Rosetree's assessment of the sax comparison. Also, given the extra money to be shelled out, I'd be sticking with a T4.

Well unless I am mistaken this video has been out for some time with little sign of the sarcastic comments in this thread from certain adherents of this group.

No arranger can be correctly assessed by listening to You Tube compressed audio except of course by those blind to all but their own opinion.

"My car is faster than yours because its red" springs to my mind.

Yes I am a newbie here (with a Tyros 5/76 about to arrive) but that does not mean that I cannot detect green cheese. (If you need to, Google it)

I try to avoid controversy but just a couple of these green cheese, or blatantly provocative, comments in this thread made me post this.

The market is split across the big three or so if we all had bought Yamaha Tyros product over the last three or four years then maybe Yamaha would have released all their eggs into the basket instead of only a few just to see what the competition would do.

I say enjoy what we choose or sell it and buy another but please stop trying to influence already satisfied folk

Ian

I may as well throw some comments in...

What I preferred on T4

Honky Tonk, EP Suitcase, Clavi, Clavi Funk, EP Galaxy, Flamenco Guitar, Steel Guitar, Big Band Jazz (sounded cleaner), Chapel Organ

These sounded cleaner and sharper to my ears.

Were difficult to choose between

Piano, Strings, Jazz Flute, Mute Trumpet, Pipe Organ

Apart from only a very slight variation of effects there wasn't a lot to choose between.

Notable differences/improvements

Chamber Strings, Guitar Elec Disto, Sax Section, Tap Dance Swing, Sheriff Reggae, Organ Gospel, Organ Flutes, Full Theatre (significantly better), Sweet Theatre (significantly better), Medium Theatre

These I heard clear differences & improvements.

Cool Wah guitar, Tenor Sax

Sounded like completely two different instruments so it wasn't really a fair comparison.

These are just my opinions based on the sound from the video.

[quote=Beemer]Well unless I am mistaken this video has been out for some time with little sign of the sarcastic comments in this thread from certain adherents of this group.

No arranger can be correctly assessed by listening to You Tube compressed audio except of course by those blind to all but their own opinion.

"My car is faster than yours because its red" springs to my mind.

Yes I am a newbie here (with a Tyros 5/76 about to arrive) but that does not mean that I cannot detect green cheese. (If you need to, Google it)

I try to avoid controversy but just a couple of these green cheese, or blatantly provocative, comments in this thread made me post this.

The market is split across the big three or so if we all had bought Yamaha Tyros product over the last three or four years then maybe Yamaha would have released all their eggs into the basket instead of only a few just to see what the competition would do.

I say enjoy what we choose or sell it and buy another but please stop trying to influence already satisfied folk

Ian





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Ian, you are totally off base..
First , this company does excellent demos..they are recorded at the same time period and use the same facility..They are uploaded at the same bitrate on youtube..So they are accurate..
Second, it was intended to be a comparison, and warrants opinions..Anyone with an open mind can understand the opinions mentioned..

Third,personally the Tyros4 was the first model I didn't dislike..I thought it was a major improvement over the Tyros3 (I owned a Tyros3 for a short time)..
Forth, the Tyros5 has some very nice effects and it can showcase better than the Tyros4..if set up properly...this video did not show well.
I failed to mention, the best sounds are still guitars...the worst are still the organs(they remind me of the poor organs on the Fantom)..

What I can see, and apparently shared by most..the opinions mentioned are on the money..

It stands to reason the AD/DA's are improved as are the effects on the T5, hence the differences between the T4/T5 albeit not significant.

I'd like to hear the sounds utilizing no effects or EQ side by side. I doubt they'll differ very much. Many keyboards rely heavily upon the internal FX and once you shut them off, the sound can be abysmal. The keyboards that can hold their own with no FX are relatively few.

I wonder if Yamaha is still utilizing mono samples, copying them, panning them in the stereo spectrum, and classifying them as stereo. They did this with many of their synths and arrangers and it always ticked me off. Not to mention it cuts polyphony in half.

I have listened to this video about 3 times, in HD, coming through a large decent sound system.

There are clear noticeable differences in each video in the sounds of the voices being compared.

To me it doesn't portray the T5 as "better"... just different.

Yamaha has used the same sound engine on the T4 and the T5. All that seems to have been changed is EQ'ing, and effects...

yes there are new voices on the T5 but alot of them are accessible by upgrading the T4 using the premium voice packs...

Heres an example:
http://www.yamahamusicsoft.com/en/category/Voices/product/1217427?currency=USD

Have a listen to this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZNdBYfNIKI

and this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShQ-3jDI0Vc#t=18

and its only $135.00 for the entire pack (I am not a secret sales rep working for Yamaha btw) lol

Nick

I'm totally with Beemer (Ian).
I guess none of you guys ever touched/heard/played the Tyros5.

Well I did/do since my T5 arrived today.
Perhaps Ensnareyou can eplain where AD-conversion takes place in the Tyros?
Perhaps Ensnareyou can explain why the T4 and T5 sound almost the same? (based on what?)

Sure Yamaha takes mono-samples, copy and panning ..... total nonsense.

I could not resist to post, I'm out of here.

Roel,Ian, it's only a comparison of two products from the same company...I would think , just to make one consider if it is practical to upgrade from a 4 to a 5....and opinions are necessary, to determine this...

Why do you guys get bent out of shape over nothing...no one said the Audya blows them out of the water!!

I'll wait for the Tyros8

The mere fact you're asking these questions tells me you know very little about the architecture of the internal workings of the sound engine used for the T4 and T5. In addition it also tells me you've probably never delved deep into the samples and programs that make up the internal programs. If you have, you'd understand why I wrote what I did.

As an FYI... utilizing mono samples allows companies to get away with less sound ROM. They then process the sound internally and with FX to make it appear to spread in the stereo spectrum. While it may be emitting and panning in stereo, it's not a true stereo sample.

Hi all,

After listening through all the videos I could find on the T5 last night I'll say this:

1. The DSP guitar voices are out of this world!
2. The Pop & Rock styles (my favourites) are really, really amazing!

Some nice Pop & rock demos here.

So yes, it's not all about a direct sound to sound comparison. It certainly has some advance features over the previous models.

Al the best my friends,

Henni

I know exactly and in detail how digital sound creation works.... so again : Where does the AD-conversion take place in these keyboards? (There is no AD conversion at all in a Tyros, except only while making audio recordings)

Sill no answer who of you really touched/played both machines? (no one)

Why do you guys feel the need to always comment/compare instruments of other brands? Whenever other members comment equipment that you choose your reactions are touchy.
Wersi and Mediastation (ordinary PC boards running Windos or Linux) are way overpriced, sound way outdated, and need (external) VST's to make it produce a decent sound.

Mediastation did not make it and Wersi is heading for the next bankrupt. Please wake up and realize the Yamaha stuff sounds much better and more musical than the 'open arrangers'..... and yes : Out of the box!
Stop commenting machines other people like/choose using only YT demo's.

As far as I know Ensnareyou did only write about his 'superiour equipment' *My arranger") with no limitations at all. Please show us what you are capable of in a YT demo. That might impress us?

A lot of dancing on the head of a pin... Tiny differences between one piano and another, or one pipe organ over another don't really cut it if you are seriously thinking on dropping $5000+ on one of these things. Essentially, this demo by sudclaviers should be helping you decide whether you want to drop $5000+ on a T5, or whether you would be fine with a used T4, probably about $2000 less.

Me, I don't hear $2000 difference.

The thing is, at the end of the road, what does a tiny difference between one sound and another make? What REALLY counts is, what CAPABILITIES does the new arranger add? What do you get in the OS significantly better than the old model? Sounds are sounds. Bottom line is, a skilled style creator can work with either and make something great. But something significant to the OS allows them (or you) to do something they simply cannot with the previous arranger.

Now, you'd THINK that audio drum styles would be something significant. But it appears the roadblocks to third party style creators still exists. No easy loading in of new styles, no software to allow you to create your OWN audio styles from your loop library, and after a YEAR of Yamaha having the PSR S950 out, obviously, no serious commitment by Yamaha to radically increase the number and choice of new styles to add in. Even if you could, on the gig (takes too long). Also, no fix to the audio multipads, so forget about audio loops alongside your style, in sync.

OK, so what IS radically different on the T5? You've got that Ensemble feature. We've talked about this in the past, and before it was a Yamaha feature, didn't seem like anybody really gave a rats (watch the Yamaha users all of a sudden start caring a LOT!). Personally, I think it is the ONE thing added to the T5 that has any REAL significance. But you've got to have good voicing skills to be able to get the best out of it.

A slider that goes between an MP3 and an SMF. But not between two MP3's, or two SMF's. Wow! Really? Something the most barebones of tablets or laptops can do (and if you need it, you already have one).

No apparent significant update to the MFD (so still WELL being Korg in this regard), no update to the sampler (still pretty closed with regard to multisample formats), no increase in the number of fills, breaks, intros and endings, or Variations.

Some significant effort has been spent on the effects, but TBH, a LOT more spent on the eye candy of how you interact with them than their basic sound. It's amazing how a killer graphic interface can effect your perception of how good a sound is... try it with your VST effects sometimes. Call up effects with your eyes closed, and just LISTEN to them. Sometimes you'll find its the graphics that color your perception. Now, don't get me wrong. I think that, just from listening, some of the Yamaha new effects sound better... but $2000+ better? And does that improvement turn the T5 into a significantly better arranger? IMO, no, not really.

You all know my feelings about audio drum styles. Thing is, it seems Yamaha apparently feel the same way. WELL under 10% of the ROM styles are audio. If it makes THAT big a difference, why aren't they ALL audio? You know, it can't be that big a difference, or all your other styles would sound pretty bad by comparison. So far, while I hear a few S950 owners say they like them, I don't hear them complain they make the rest sound poor. They ought to! TBH, the most I've heard about the audio styles is how few of them most can use, and how tough it is to integrate them sonically into the rest of the style and the overall sound.

So, what do you get for ditching your current arranger (probably a Tyros) and forking over the dough for the T5?

Ensemble Voices.

Is that enough?

The only upside to this is, I am hoping that Roland and Korg etc., take a look at Ensemble Mode, and come up with the code to do it themselves. I have long lamented that divisi parts double or triple the size of the ensemble, and love how the VSTi's with this feature work. It's great to see arrangers start to use this. Now all I have to do is wait until it won't cost me $5000+ to get in an arranger!

I like the T5... But I'm not sure, if I was in the market for another arranger, if I would pay the premium of a new price Tyros, when droves of older Tyros owners will be dumping perfectly good and little diminished capability T4's and T3's on the market at bargain basement prices.