Good to see you are still with the software arrangers Frank..


personally i moved away from them about a year ago, when i got a chance to buy an Audya rack at a nice price... I require the OOTB style functionally above the flexibillity of a softarranger. Styles are for when i want to quickly try out something new.

However still using Ableton live, and Cubase with my VSt collection and an akai MPC studio, running everyting on a Windows 8 pro tablet.


My setup is however to big to my likeing..

Kronos
V-Synth GT2
Audya 4 rack
Akai MPC studio
Tablet with the above software.

I would really love to get back to an all in one solution with 2 manualls (no peddals) and most of the above functionallity. and that could be done with an open arranger with good OOTB functionallity, which leaves only one solution these days. Wersi

Bachus,

The only option to even attempt replacing all that gear in an all in one solution is the Wersi Sonic. A Verona, Abacus, or Louvre will almost get you there but to run more than 4 VST's at once, you'd have to forego the Wersi VST host which I don't recommend.

I've never thought of upgrading until I saw the specs on the Sonic. That might get me to move up from OAS7. I won't know for sure until I hear and see more of the Sonic. Wersi definitely has the edge when it comes to pushing the limits of today's technology.

The only other keyboard I've considered in the past 5 years is the Fairlight CMI30AX. Unfortunately it's on hold right now with no definite date for delivery to market. The FPGA processor the Fairlight utilizes is unrivaled in both processing power and sheer audio quality. If you've never heard the Fairlight CC1 card in person you can't fathom how great it sounds. Truly the pinnacle of digital audio.

So much i realised since you guys introduced it to me in this post..

On a side note however, i dont have nothing at all with the pedalboards and would never use them, even worse, they would be in my way. So i would prefer something like the old abacus with just the 2 keyboards but withouth the pedals.

which also makes me wonder if i would be able to use my ableton somewhere on the Sonic (i guess not). Or use other pc connected hardware with the Sonic.

another point is that i dont want to miss my Kronos, its just such an awesome beast. Before i saw the new Sonic, i was thinking of selling the Audya rack and the V-synth and replacing it with a T5... and a huge 30" touchscreen for my PC setup.

Now i am in doubt as usuall, ..

So, if these Wersi's are so good, why does most of the music I have heard played on them by people OTHER than factory demonstrators sound so bloody awful?

You know, I bet that the vast majority of drivers that bought a Bugatti Veyron aren't capable of driving them safely at the 250mph+ that they are capable of reaching. In fact, check out the googles, and find shot after shot where owners wrote them off at quite modest speeds!

The point being, although it might be POSSIBLE to make great sounding music on a $20k+ Wersi, seems like few actually do... Personally, I think it is the complexity of the VSTi system that is the primary roadblock. It seems, in demo after demo, that users of TOTL all hardware arrangers don't seem to have much problem posting something quite impressive as soon as they get one. Wersi owners?

Crickets chirping.

There are probably 100 times as many yamaha instruments then Wersi instruments... which means for every 100 yamaha owners posting their music here, there would be one Wersi musician...

Please show me the 100 Yamaha musicians posting their music here on a regular basis?

There are a few good wersi musicians posting on Youtube... but none of them using the Sonic as that one isnt available yet.<

Ya gotta have guts to post anything here! Or be like me and really don't give a poop what pleases some of them
The good thing about posting here is that you will usually get at least a couple of honest responses, so you might learn something. Just heaping praise on something that may or may not be worthy doesn't really help.
I've been guilty of doing that sometimes, but normally I won't say anything unless I feel what I say is constructive, or if I think it's really good.
I would much rather be silent than hurt the feelings of someone who took the time and trouble to post his music, which is our passion. Thin line, huh?

But, there's no shyness about giving opinions of someones performance probably from someone less qualified,
just sayin' ...

Diki,

Most arranger players are merely hobbyists, beginners, or just do it for fun. Few people's playing skills, whether they call themselves pro's or not, is stellar and that's reality.

Contrary to what you state, I find few demo's posted by hardware arranger owners of reasonable quality and no better or worse than any open arranger user demo's. With the exception of those done by professional demonstrators which seem to be of high quality in both playing and audio quality. If I were to base my product buying decisions on the majority of end user demos, I'd be hard pressed to ever purchase those products demonstrated.

For me the power and flexibility of an open arranger is what I want and need. While I agree that computer based arranger software utilizing VST's can be a logistical nightmare to setup and operate, that simply isn't the case in a hardware/software based Wersi. Wersi has taken the use of VST's and made it simple to use with the built in VST host. I've stressed this before but you and others don't seem to grasp this concept. If the Wersi were complicated and didn't do what it was intended to do, I'd ditch it much like I did my 9000 Pro and Korg Oasys. If the Wersi were difficult to use, their primary purchasing demographic (the elderly), wouldn't take well to it.

Whether Bill, Bachus, Frank and I are the few who get and understand the power, versatility, and incredible sound quality of a VST capable system, we're ok with that. For you and others who choose to be so myopic, technology will eventually force itself upon you. Whether you like it or not, open based hardware arrangers and workstations are destined to be the norm one day. For now I'm content to be as you call it, a very capable Veyron driver while others are driving their VW's.

I am not unaware of the power of VSTi's. Heck, I've been using them for studio production virtually since they came out!

But... Let's be honest here. At one end of the scale are studio producers and musicians, who want the highest sonic results possible, and are not confused or intimidated by considerable complexity. Then, at the other end of the scale, is the vast majority of arranger players, who not only want operational simplicity, but also want to basically hold down a chord with one hand, play a melody with the other, and that's about as far as their musical creativity goes..!

What all this talk about open arrangers fails to really address is how you CAN achieve FAR better results than an arranger IF you can firstly, play your ass off, then have a mastery of the software to bend that to your will. Find me ONE top 40 hit played on an arranger. You can't. The PRIMARY use of an arranger is to give us near-professional sounding backing with next to no effort. The problem really starts when you decide to use gear not really designed to be used in an arranger setting to do the job that gear that is really specialized to do that. IMO, it is just not a good fit.

On the one hand, if you want TRULY pro music, you won't go near an arranger, or at least only use it for the rough. Then you'll replace nearly everything the arranger did (if you even used one in the first place) with real playing and high quality VSTi's. And, after a day or so of programming and playing, you've got ONE tune.

Now, let's look at how the vast majority of people use an arranger. They switch it on, they call up a style, probably hit the OTS, and start playing immediately.

Two more different work-flows cannot be imagined. And the gear that is optimized for each does a terrible job of the other.

Truth is, the only thing I hear that is amazing about some of the Wersi clips is the talent of the presenter. And I am also convinced that, give them a PA3X or a T5, they would amaze equally... Only then they would be amazing on something $20,000 less than the Wersi! I'm sorry, but if you have to pay an extra $15,000+ to sound even slightly better than a TOTL hardware arranger, it is no wonder these things are rarely heard in the hands of talented musicians. They are mostly heard in the untalented hands of extremely rich people with more money than talent, or, if the truth be known, common sense!

Thats a very shallow statement, yet correct for 90%.....

However the reason i love to toy around with vsts is because they much more allow me to tune and change my mainhandsound in real time trough the use of sliders and knobs... Its the whole synthesizer idea, and it just does not work that well on most arrangers.


It works great however on open arrangers, as vsts can very much be controlled in real time.. For many people espescially arranger players, making music is not about performing for an audience... Its about finding those very relaxing moments while playing music letting them relax from a hard stressfull day at work. And if playing with sounds is part of it. So be it.


Yet it does not require vsts my Kronos also allows me a lot of this freedom, playing my kronos mainsound on top of audya accompaniment is quite nice.